Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336600]I wonder how people would evaluate Belichick had his career been flipped. Meaning had he won all those Super Bowls with the Brown during his first stint, and now during his second with the Patriots be struggling.[/quote]Probably slide him down a few spots. The reason he's up so high is that he oversees a consistent winner in the era of parity. If his role and Gibbs role were flipped, I'd likely also flip them on my list.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

1-bellecheck
1-gibbs(has'nt been as good since his return,but when you win 3 superbowls with 3 qbs and you are in the hof,enough said.)
2-herman edwards
3-tony dungy
4-mike shannahan
5-andy reid
5-holmgren

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

In no particular order:
Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Jack Del Rio, Jeff Fisher, John Fox

I'd throw Tom Coughlin on there, but he hasn't done too terribly much since coming to the Giants. Gibbs is struggling. Shanahan is still looking for the 2nd coming of Elway. Belichek is fine, I personally don't care for him. Dungy is a good coach, but not top 5.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

1) Belichek - dont really care for him or the patriots - but the man gets his teams to win games - great game planner

2) Reid - during his tenure has the Eagles at the top - even last year losing McNabb. vertually does it with no top WR and no true running game

3) Billick - year end year out has the Ravens top's in the league - what is even more impressive - he was an offensive coach and now winning basically with all defense.

4) Dungy - seems to win every year (having manning helps!) even going back to the TB days - very consistant, finally won the big one!

5) Holmgren - won in GB and has been winning consistanty in Seattle. Good talent scout also - he insisted on having Hasselbach when nobody in the front office wanted him, turned him into a probowler.


honorable mention : Lovie Smith, Shanahan, Fisher.
I can't put Gibbs in there for "right now" he has stuggled since coming back - under 500 record for his combined 3 years since coming back. if it was anyone other than Gibbs, we would probably be looking for a new coach.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;336662]In no particular order:
Lovie Smith, Andy Reid, Jack Del Rio, Jeff Fisher, John Fox

I'd throw Tom Coughlin on there, but he hasn't done too terribly much since coming to the Giants. Gibbs is struggling. Shanahan is still looking for the 2nd coming of Elway. Belichek is fine, I personally don't care for him. Dungy is a good coach, but not top 5.[/QUOTE]

Jack Del Rio and Tom Coughlin...I cant agree with you there. The others are questionable.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I can't believe anyone has Joe Gibbs in their top 5 coaches currently. Sorry folks, he hasn't done hardly anything since his return.

These are in no particular order, and the spelling is butchered:
Shannahan (sp?), Holmgren, Peyton, Fox, Fisher, Del Rio, Dungy, Lewis, Billick, Smith, Reid, Bellichek.

Some of them I consider equal with Gibbs: Gruden, Edwards, Nolan, Leinihan, Marinelli, Mangini, Kubiak. Some of these, mainly these guys I haven't seen enough of them to put them ahead, but are on a fast track.

Also remember, lots of coaches got N/A's in this: Atl, Az, San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, and Miami all have brand new head coaches.

I'm sorry, but Gibbs hasn't done a whole lot with a relatively talented Redskins team since his return. He's done pretty well at acquiring talent, but hasn't done so great on the coaching side of things, in my opinion. No one can deny Joe Gibbs greatness during his first tenure, but I think we need to look at this latest stint as a separate coach. If this guys name were anything but Joe Gibbs we would be asking for a new coach every single year.

To Smooter, Coughlin is a hard sell no doubt, but Jack Del Rio? He was appointed head coach of Jacksonville in 2004 if memory serves me correctly. Lets look at his teams since Gibbs has been in DC (04)
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4, wild card playoff spot
2006: 8-8
His worst record is 8-8, not bad

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

Coughlin is lucky to have a job right now.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;336858]I can't believe anyone has Joe Gibbs in their top 5 coaches currently. Sorry folks, he hasn't done hardly anything since his return.

These are in no particular order, and the spelling is butchered:
Shannahan (sp?), Holmgren, Peyton, Fox, Fisher, Del Rio, Dungy, Lewis, Billick, Smith, Reid, Bellichek.

Some of them I consider equal with Gibbs: Gruden, Edwards, Nolan, Leinihan, Marinelli, Mangini, Kubiak. Some of these, mainly these guys I haven't seen enough of them to put them ahead, but are on a fast track.

Also remember, lots of coaches got N/A's in this: Atl, Az, San Diego, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, and Miami all have brand new head coaches.

I'm sorry, but Gibbs hasn't done a whole lot with a relatively talented Redskins team since his return. He's done pretty well at acquiring talent, but hasn't done so great on the coaching side of things, in my opinion. No one can deny Joe Gibbs greatness during his first tenure, but I think we need to look at this latest stint as a separate coach. If this guys name were anything but Joe Gibbs we would be asking for a new coach every single year.

To Smooter, Coughlin is a hard sell no doubt, but Jack Del Rio? He was appointed head coach of Jacksonville in 2004 if memory serves me correctly. Lets look at his teams since Gibbs has been in DC (04)
2004: 9-7
2005: 12-4, wild card playoff spot
2006: 8-8
His worst record is 8-8, not bad[/QUOTE]

So does earning a wild card appearance make you a top five coach? Thats what the thread is about and thats what Im arguing.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I can't believe people are actually singing the praises of guys like Kubiak, Payton, Nolan, Gruden, Marinelli but then bashing Gibbs

That's ridiculous. Let's see (putting aside Gibbs' 3 rings, 100+ victories, etc.). Let's just look at some of their highlights from the last two seasons:

Gibbs: Playoff win following 2005 season
Kubiak: One season, losing record, no playoffs
Payton: One season, 10-6, NFC Championship game....also lost a game to Gibbs
Nolan: 2 seasons, 2 losing records, lost to Gibbs
Gruden: Same number of wins and losses the past two seasons as Gibbs...lost to Gibbs in playoffs
Marinelli:One season, 3-13

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336922]I can't believe people are actually saying guys like Kubiak, Payton, Nolan, Gruden, Marinelli are EQUAL TO GIBBS????

That's ridiculous. Let's see (putting aside Gibbs' 3 rings, 100+ victories, etc.). Let's just look at some of their highlights from the last two seasons:

Gibbs: Playoff win following 2005 season
Kubiak: One season, losing record, no playoffs
Payton: One season, 10-6, NFC Championship game....also lost a game to Gibbs
Nolan: 2 seasons, 2 losing records, lost to Gibbs
Gruden: Same number of wins and losses the past two seasons as Gibbs...lost to Gibbs in playoffs
Marinelli:One season, 3-13[/quote]

Seriously, that's a pretty shitty list.

At least Chucky has won a Super Bowl, but the rest haven't proven much at all. Marinelli? :doh:

I'm going to bed, I've had enough jackassery for one day.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336922]I can't believe people are actually singing the praises of guys like Kubiak, Payton, Nolan, Gruden, Marinelli but then bashing Gibbs

That's ridiculous. Let's see (putting aside Gibbs' 3 rings, 100+ victories, etc.). Let's just look at some of their highlights from the last two seasons:

Gibbs: Playoff win following 2005 season
Kubiak: One season, losing record, no playoffs
Payton: One season, 10-6, NFC Championship game....also lost a game to Gibbs
Nolan: 2 seasons, 2 losing records, lost to Gibbs
Gruden: Same number of wins and losses the past two seasons as Gibbs...lost to Gibbs in playoffs
Marinelli:One season, 3-13[/quote]It's frusterating, aint it.

Record is a really bad way to evaluate coaches IMO...but then again, theres really no good way to evaluate coaches. Almost everything a coach does is represented by a figure that is 90+% decided by someone else, being a player, an assistant coach, a general manager, etc.

You almost have to look for the guys who always seem to be on the cutting edge of football innovation, because thats really all a coach can do to consistently give his team/organization an advantage.

I think Gibbs has done an excellent job of that through the years. So has Belicheik and Reid, and even Mike Nolan recently.

Still, its really, REALLY hard to rank coaches with any degree of accuracy. So I pretty much say, after the top 5, if the players like em, then hes a good coach. If they dont, hes a bad coach. Is there really any other way to do it?

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;336932]It's frusterating, aint it.

Record is a really bad way to evaluate coaches IMO...but then again, theres really no good way to evaluate coaches. Almost everything a coach does is represented by a figure that is 90+% decided by someone else, being a player, an assistant coach, a general manager, etc.

You almost have to look for the guys who always seem to be on the cutting edge of football innovation, because thats really all a coach can do to consistently give his team/organization an advantage.

I think Gibbs has done an excellent job of that through the years. So has Belicheik and Reid, and even Mike Nolan recently.

Still, its really, REALLY hard to rank coaches with any degree of accuracy. So I pretty much say, after the top 5, if the players like em, then hes a good coach. If they dont, hes a bad coach. Is there really any other way to do it?[/QUOTE]

Well I guess one way to look at it is "What if they all coached the Detroit Lions? How would each of these coaches mentioned in this thread do with that roster?"

By the way, how funny is it to read about how Andy Reid has done such a great job considering he had no WRs or RBs really to work with. Did I miss something? Isn't he the one that put that roster together in the first place?

Anyway, call me a homer but I still take Gibbs any day of the week over just about any coach. His biggest problem last season was ceding too much control. I think he'll take it back this year. I've got a good feeling that he and Saunders have figured out how to effectively work together this year.

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336940]Well I guess one way to look at it is "What if they all coached the Detroit Lions? How would each of these coaches mentioned in this thread do with that roster?"

By the way, how funny is it to read about how Andy Reid has done such a great job considering he had no WRs or RBs really to work with. Did I miss something? Isn't he the one that put that roster together in the first place?

Anyway, call me a homer but I still take Gibbs any day of the week over just about any coach. His biggest problem last season was ceding too much control. I think he'll take it back this year. I've got a good feeling that he and Saunders have figured out how to effectively work together this year.[/quote]Maybe this deserves its own thread, but one of the reasons for Mark Brunells success over the last two years (for those who understand relative success) is that he did get a lot of YAC from his receivers. Been in the top 5 in YAC in both 05 and 06.

Except Donovan McNabb was No. 1 in YAC both years. I hear people still trashing Philly for not investing in any offensive weapons for McNabb, well he's got more offensive help than any team in the NFL the last two seasons.

And to me, thats a testament to the way Reid has built his roster.

Anyway, we have three years of Gibbs 2.0 to evaluate, and from that we know...not very much. I do know I would not rank a coach with one year of experience ahead of him, and a lot of coaches in this league aren't that good. Gibbs is still a top 5-6 coach in this league, and just because he may not win a fourth superbowl here does not mean hes incapable. A few lucky bounces and who knows, 2007 could be the year!

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

I beg you not to start any thread that has to do with Brunell. I don't want to read anymore "Well they go to church together, so Gibbs loves Brunell"

Re: Top 5 coaches now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336973]I beg you not to start any thread that has to do with Brunell. I don't want to read anymore "Well they go to church together, so Gibbs loves Brunell"[/quote]Duely noted. I could pass it off as a McNabb thread...

I keed, I keed.