Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Well I didn’t watch until the last drive due to my sons QB training today and I’m glad I missed out on that mess.

I only care about Terry and Chase now. Hope both of them looked good today.

This team is very bad but that’s a good thing, we will certainly be in play for the #1 pick if not top 3 is a lock

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Charles, 1st game, and injured again. Fuck me.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Well, there went my interest for the season. Call me when we have a name and a real team.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

This team on defense and offense starts slow every Sunday, eliminate this and we most likely win.

Kyle Allen did not have a bad day, but 2 turnovers is too many. Can’t win with his to rates.

Hopkins seems really shaky from outside of 40 yards

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Skins Twitter has officially gone into 1-15 mode too. Most fans now realize we need Trevor so bad, unfortunately the fucking Jets will get him

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

We had all the momentum going into OT if we actually go into OT. That was pure sabotage.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

+
[I][U]Allen[/U][/I] is no MVP but [I][U]he's making some plays Haskins never made[/U][/I] (last drive of the first half, some 3rd downs, the pass to Wright rolling to his left etc...)
[I][U]Payne[/U][/I] had a nice game
[I][U]D gave us a chance[/U][/I] after disappearing for most of the game
[I][U]Offense[/U][/I] being able to put drives on [I][U]3 key occasions[/U][/I]

-
[I][U]LBs[/U][/I], we got [I][I][U]gashed right up the middle[/U][/I][/I] in the running game (that drive before the Fuller "got lucky it stood" interception was despair inducing)
[I][U]Collins and Evertt missing tackles[/U][/I], hate it
[I][U]Offense is nothing more[/U][/I] than what we think it is

Finally, biggest negative: [I][U][B]Rivera.[/B][/U][/I]
I'm sorry, but that [I][U]2 point conversion attempt[/U][/I] with a struggling offense, after selling us a "we're going for the division on a 5 winnable games stretch" is [B]unacceptable[/B]. I'm taking this personally now, Ron you're taking us for fools, you're pissing on our shoes.
Is there no [B][U]"frustration on the sideline"[/U][/B] now ?! You lost me and you gonna lose this locker room...

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Major sigh... We haven't even played 8 games and here we are talking draft again. Last year we did the same thing. Chase Young generation pass rusher talk. First is he? No, he is really good but not LT or Reggie White. Would we trade Herbert right now for Young? I probably would. So the Lawrence talk is just so damn pre mature. How many 1st round qb's bust? Mahomes wasn't even the first pick of the draft and he is the best player in the league. Let's play the games and let the chips fall where they may...

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Can we just cut Collins? Our safeties combo is bottom 3 in the league? It’s terrible folks

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I'm mad. People trying to make themselves believe going for the 2pt was the right call understand nothing at situational football. That was not going for the win. That was trying to lose.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

For me the jury is out on Rivera.

I am no longer buying the narrative that Rivera is this master culture builder, and all his moves are designed to continue building this team.

Going for 2, after his offense had showed an ability to move the ball on the Giants, and the defense had shown the ability to get a stop, does NOT send the signal to the team that your coach believes in you. It sends the opposite message.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1262778]For me the jury is out on Rivera.

I am no longer buying the narrative that Rivera is this master culture builder, and all his moves are designed to continue building this team.

Going for 2, after his offense had showed an ability to move the ball on the Giants, and the defense had shown the ability to get a stop, does NOT send the signal to the team that your coach believes in you. It sends the opposite message.[/quote]

Ron is playing for next yr and after.. He knows this team is bad and there is no point in winning meaningless games if you can grab Lawrence/Fields in this draft

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1262778]For me the jury is out on Rivera.

I am no longer buying the narrative that Rivera is this master culture builder, and all his moves are designed to continue building this team.

Going for 2, after his offense had showed an ability to move the ball on the Giants, and the defense had shown the ability to get a stop, does NOT send the signal to the team that your coach believes in you. It sends the opposite message.[/quote]

Yop.
Last season, same situation, Dolphins went for 2 against us. We all knew what it meant. We were all aware we just got handed an easy win by a team who had given up on the season and wasn't trying to win.
We're on the other hand of the same situation.
Rivera went for the loss.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1262776]I'm mad. People trying to make themselves believe going for the 2pt was the right call understand nothing at situational football. That was not going for the win. That was trying to lose.[/quote]

I'm glad man, I may be in the minority but what does 4 wins get you? Look at this teams schedule and how piss poor the roster is... Winning 4 games guarantees no chance at TL and it may also drop you out of the Fields category.
We as fans need to realize, this team has lost for many years and it's going to take a FRANCHISE QB to get us back to a winning culture.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1262781]I'm glad man, I may be in the minority but what does 4 wins get you? Look at this teams schedule and how piss poor the roster is... Winning 4 games guarantees no chance at TL and it may also drop you out of the Fields category.

We as fans need to realize, this team has lost for many years and it's going to take a FRANCHISE QB to get us back to a winning culture.[/QUOTE]I hear that.

But then cut the "going for the division" narrative.
We may not be x and o geniuses but we watch and understand this game, don't try to fool us around.

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Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1262775]Can we just cut Collins? Our safeties combo is bottom 3 in the league? It’s terrible folks[/quote]

Awful!

D.E. was starting today. That's how bad it is. He is a career special teamer.

C.H. looked to be an improvement over what had been out there but there were a ton of run fits where LBs or safeties missed their gap and/or the tackle.

Really poor performance from the safeties and LBs fresh from the game. Interested to hear the film breakdown.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

If RR was trying to lose, Haskins would still be starting. He tried to win, and it didn't work. There's no tanking going on. Collectively, they're just not very good right now.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1262784]If RR was trying to lose, Haskins would still be starting. He tried to win, and it didn't work. There's no tanking going on. Collectively, they're just not very good right now.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry but no he didn't. Or if that was him trying to win you have to question his football IQ.
Last year when the Dolphins went for 2 in the same situation we all knew what it meant.
He either didn't care about winning or is awful at understanding situational football.

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Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1262779]Ron is playing for next yr and after.. He knows this team is bad and there is no point in winning meaningless games if you can grab Lawrence/Fields in this draft[/quote]

I'm done with this season too. Idk who to blame for the terrible offense, but everybody is garbage. The playcalling is garbage. Kyle Allen is garbage. The pass blocking is garbage. The run blocking is garbage. The non-Terry Mac wideouts are garbage. The tight ends are garbage.

It says a lot that Rivera hypes up Allen as the guy he has the most trust in, and then Allen goes out and his only difference is putting a couple td's on the board, but they're both negated by absolutely terrible turnovers. Allen looks like a future Ryan Fitzpatrick, only we really haven't seen Allen's magic yet (even giving credit for both td's today, congrats on the fade TD too that only took us 7 years to finally complete).

The defense is garbage (basing this on giving up huge goddamn plays every fucking game. Force a turnover you fucks. The Fuller pick doesn't count, that was a gift from the refs). Even with all the adjustments and personnel swaps we are sooooooooooo far from competing with actual decent teams.

Anybody who thinks we're competing for a division title right now is nuts. This includes Riverboat Ron. Compete for the future and try to develop the young talent, and hopefully we get a decent qb in the draft, because with 1 win we've probably already lost the 1st overall pick to the Jets.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I’ll wait to judge after the A22 but where the hell has chase young been?

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1262786]I'm done with this season too. Idk who to blame for the terrible offense, but everybody is garbage. The playcalling is garbage. Kyle Allen is garbage. The pass blocking is garbage. The run blocking is garbage. The non-Terry Mac wideouts are garbage. The tight ends are garbage.

It says a lot that Rivera hypes up Allen as the guy he has the most trust in, and then Allen goes out and his only difference is putting a couple td's on the board, but they're both negated by absolutely terrible turnovers. Allen looks like a future Ryan Fitzpatrick, only we really haven't seen Allen's magic yet (even giving credit for both td's today, congrats on the fade TD too that only took us 7 years to finally complete).

The defense is garbage (basing this on giving up huge goddamn plays every fucking game. Force a turnover you fucks. The Fuller pick doesn't count, that was a gift from the refs). Even with all the adjustments and personnel swaps we are sooooooooooo far from competing with actual decent teams.

Anybody who thinks we're competing for a division title right now is nuts. This includes Riverboat Ron. Compete for the future and try to develop the young talent, and hopefully we get a decent qb in the draft, because with 1 win we've probably already lost the 1st overall pick to the Jets.[/QUOTE]


Looking at our schedule, I’m not sure they win another game. Certainly won’t be favored in anymore


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Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1262787]I’ll wait to judge after the A22 but where the hell has chase young been?[/quote]

The entire dline...1 sack today. Pathetic

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=mooby;1262786]I'm done with this season too. Idk who to blame for the terrible offense, but everybody is garbage. The playcalling is garbage. Kyle Allen is garbage. The pass blocking is garbage. The run blocking is garbage. The non-Terry Mac wideouts are garbage. The tight ends are garbage.

It says a lot that Rivera hypes up Allen as the guy he has the most trust in, and then Allen goes out and his only difference is putting a couple td's on the board, but they're both negated by absolutely terrible turnovers. Allen looks like a future Ryan Fitzpatrick, only we really haven't seen Allen's magic yet (even giving credit for both td's today, congrats on the fade TD too that only took us 7 years to finally complete).

The defense is garbage (basing this on giving up huge goddamn plays every fucking game. Force a turnover you fucks. The Fuller pick doesn't count, that was a gift from the refs). Even with all the adjustments and personnel swaps we are sooooooooooo far from competing with actual decent teams.

[B]Anybody who thinks we're competing for a division title right now is nuts. This includes Riverboat Ron.[/B] Compete for the future and try to develop the young talent, and hopefully we get a decent qb in the draft, because with 1 win we've probably already lost the 1st overall pick to the Jets.[/quote]

Well to be fair, that last call sure didn't look like trying to win the division. The narrative being put out there doesn't match the decisions being made.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Very frustrated we have a great WR under a rookie deal and by the time we get the QB situation straightened out he will be playing for another team.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

From PFF:

The Giants have one of the worst pass-protecting offensive lines in the NFL, having allowed the second-most pressures (99) through the first five weeks. But facing off against a defensive line that featured five first-round picks, New York held up in the trenches and allowed just five total pressures.


What happened?

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1262785]I'm sorry but no he didn't. Or if that was him trying to win you have to question his football IQ.
Last year when the Dolphins went for 2 in the same situation we all knew what it meant.
He either didn't care about winning or is awful at understanding situational football.

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Don't be sorry, you're entitled to your opinion. I just disagree with it. They call him Riverboat Ron for a reason. This isn't the first time he decided to try the two point conversion for the win, rather than attempt the extra point to force overtime.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I liked the decision.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I tend to agree with Frenchie. If this was about instilling culture and winning he would use time outs in one score games.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

What is the answer ? No Jay,Manusky,Callahan .. Bruce is gone.. everything we thought needed to happen .. except Snyder ..sigh , my guess is Ron is scratching his head over the lack of D play .. but he knew as well as all of us the O was bad ..we have maybe 4 players on offense that are really good .. I wonder if we would have used all those number one picks on Offense if we would be this bad .. I can’t believe we would be worse ..

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1262780]Yop.
Last season, same situation, Dolphins went for 2 against us. We all knew what it meant. We were all aware we just got handed an easy win by a team who had given up on the season and wasn't trying to win.
We're on the other hand of the same situation.
Rivera went for the loss.[/quote]

Seeing as the dolphins ended with more wins than we did last year I dont think they gifted us a win. We went for the win and it didnt work. It happens. We are a bad team with some good pieces that can be built around (Young, Sweat, Allen, Payne, Matty I. Fuller, McLaurin, and I do like what we have seen from Gibson) our offensive line is terrible and has to be addressed as well as our safeties among other things. The Giants put up 34 last week vs. the Cowboys and outside of that run by Jones they didnt have explosive break your back plays. Both of their TDs came directly from turnovers. We all knew we werent gonna be good this year but we didnt know that the division would be absolutely garbage too.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Ok maybe you're right. Maybe he's tanking. He went for two and ordered the offense to stay out of the end zone. Or maybe it was a secret handshake between he and Kyle...or a wink...

I'm not buying it. I'll give you the timeout usage in the one score games. I don't understand that. But I don't think he's deliberately trying not to win. If the play had worked it would be a different tune in here. Sometimes the other team just executes better.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

Ok, so if I'm trying to see this as Ron legitimately trying to win... I have a really hard time not seeing it as one of the stupidest calls I have ever witnessed.

Let me put is this way.
In this situation, with this offense and this QB, what do you see as most likely:

A) Kicking the extra point, winning the OT toss, getting a FG and then a stop / losing the toss, getting a stop and a FG (or even scoring a TD drive, like they just had).

B) Getting the 2 points conversion.

?

With this offense and this QB in this game, I don't see how you pick B over A.
2 points conv is a 43% play in the league. So I don't see how it's better than a 20% play with our offense.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1262799]Ok maybe you're right. Maybe he's tanking. [B]He went for two and ordered the offense to stay out of the end zone. [/B]Or maybe it was a secret handshake between he and Kyle...or a wink...

I'm not buying it. I'll give you the timeout usage in the one score games. I don't understand that. But I don't think he's deliberately trying not to win. If the play had worked it would be a different tune in here. Sometimes the other team just executes better.[/quote]

I'm not saying he did that. I'm saying he made a choice that didn't give us the best likelihood of winning. By quite a large margin.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

One last thing and then I'll let this go. I don't believe teams actually tank. So when I say "we got handed the W" or Ron is "playing to lose", I'm making an overstatement, on purpose.
What I actually mean is that he, just like the Dolphins last year, [I][U]didn't care about winning enough[/U][/I] to make the logical choice, and risk some injuries in OT.

Going "hey let's decide it on a less than 40% play (probably less 20% in that situation), rather than doing everything we can to put this team in the best possible position to get the W" is the closest possible real life version of what we, and I, as angry fans, get to call "trying to lose".

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[quote=FrenchSkin;1262801]I'm not saying he did that. I'm saying he made a choice that didn't give us the best likelihood of winning. By quite a large margin.[/quote]

If I quote you, that means I am speaking to you. If I do not quote you, that means I am just speaking in general. Someone on here said he told Kyle Allen not to score. I'm not going to go back through the posts to see who it was.

My point is simply that I believe he thought they could get the two yards and win the game. It's one of those decisions that is great if it works, and not so great if it doesn't.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1262803]If I quote you, that means I am speaking to you. If I do not quote you, that means I am just speaking in general. Someone on here said he told Kyle Allen not to score. I'm not going to go back through the posts to see who it was.

[B]My point is simply that I believe he thought they could get the two yards and win the game.[/B] It's one of those decisions that is great if it works, and not so great if it doesn't.[/quote]

Fair enough, he thought they could. And they could, not gonna say there was a 0% chance of getting this.

But do you think any team whose season truly matters and is legitimately making a push for their division makes the same choice in the same situation ?

(And I was yelling at my TV the second I saw him signal for 2, this is not an in hindsight opinion. :laughing- )

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1262804]Fair enough, he thought they could. And they could, not gonna say there was a 0% chance of getting this.

But do you think any team whose season truly matters and is legitimately making a push for their division makes the same choice in the same situation ?
[B]
(And I was yelling at my TV the second I saw him signal for 2, [/B]this is not an in hindsight opinion. :laughing- )[/quote]

Haha, and after they scored the TD, I told my son they should just just go for two.

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[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1262805]Haha, and after they scored the TD, I told my son they should just just go for two.[/QUOTE]Haha love it. Well let's not act like this all matters anyway [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

I called the two point try way before they scored the TD ..If we make it Ron is living up to his riverboat persona... if not he is a bum .. also there is no guarantee we make the extra point kick ... lots of ways to view this .now we got some guy on post game show saying we should draft OL with top pick and bring in a vet QB ... cam newton even mentioned Alex Smith.. insane

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I know stats don't tell you what actually happened, but I couldn't help noting that aside from being out gained on the ground, we won TOP and overall yardage by a margin. What killed us was 2 bad turnovers from Allen; which seems to be becoming his forte. The 2pt attempt showed that he can't improvise, and to a lesser extent, neither can his compatriots (e.g. Gibson virtually motionless).

Putting this all on RR is fine as it's the HCs job to own the results, but a better QB would have won that game. Allen may well be the best we have right now but he's not the answer and I think RR knows that. He's not tanking (I don't really think you can in the NFL, it goes against the players psyche), but he's also not worried about the record too much. He's evaluating everyone and learning who he wants to keep next year. 30-50% of this roster will be different come next season, then we'll find out if RR really can put a winning team on the field. This season is just a 16 game preseason for 2021.

Re: Giants part 1 Dumpster Fire postgame
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1262800]Ok, so if I'm trying to see this as Ron legitimately trying to win... I have a really hard time not seeing it as one of the stupidest calls I have ever witnessed.



Let me put is this way.

In this situation, with this offense and this QB, what do you see as most likely:



A) Kicking the extra point, winning the OT toss, getting a FG and then a stop / losing the toss, getting a stop and a FG (or even scoring a TD drive, like they just had).



B) Getting the 2 points conversion.



?



With this offense and this QB in this game, I don't see how you pick B over A.

2 points conv is a 43% play in the league. So I don't see how it's better than a 20% play with our offense.[/QUOTE]



Exactly.....this was a masterful tank. Gives the appearance of a desperate attempt to win, but in reality was the quickest way to lose.