Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

I think we should keep separate threads for the coaching staff/FO and the players to make it easier for discussion.

Starting with this:

[url]http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25655400/josh-norman-says-retire-one-super-bowl-win[/url]

Josh Norman is one ring away from retiring from football. I'm surprised to hear that considering football is all he knows, and his unquestioned commitment to gameday prep.

[quote]
"When that happens, you can kiss my ass goodbye. I'm out," Norman said. [B]"I've got so many things going on outside of this[/B]. It's almost like a steppingstone, to be honest. I'll be bigger outside of this than I will be inside of it. Believe that."
[/quote]

Oh really? I'd hate for his teammates to get the wrong impression.


[quote]
The question is, where will Norman have the chance to win a Super Bowl in 2019? He carries a $14.5 million salary-cap hit in 2019 and [B]would save Washington $11.5 million in space if released after June 1[/B]. The Redskins have approximately $25 million in cap space for next season, so they need to create room.
[/quote]

Wow, what a team friendly deal. Definitely doesn't seem like a candidate for being cut now. :rolleyes:

I feel like there's a joke in here somewhere about how he couldn't be further from a ring if he tried, but he ain't worth the effort.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Thing is we get rid of Norman then what? Dunbar's health is up in the air, Moreau needs to take a big step forward, and we have a bunch of jags beyond that.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=MTK;1215656]Thing is we get rid of Norman then what? Dunbar's health is up in the air, Moreau needs to take a big step forward, and we have a bunch of jags beyond that.[/quote]

That really seems to be the only thing playing in J.No's favor. A lack of quality replacements at an affordable price and Dunbar's nerve injury put us in a precarious position. But I could definitely see us moving on from J.No if they found a suitable replacement first.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=MTK;1215656]Thing is we get rid of Norman then what? Dunbar's health is up in the air, Moreau needs to take a big step forward, and we have a bunch of jags beyond that.[/quote]

Agree...I do think he the contract and cap number makes him a candidate to have a base salary restructuring. I think we can use a post June cut as enough leverage.

I like Norman toughness and he one guy you can count on to be healthy. I read somewhere that Swearinger kinda ruffled Norman feathers around the locker room.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Trade Norman, if HaHa is worth a 4th with an expiring contract, then Norman should be worth a 2nd or 3rd.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Sadly we need Norman. Sounds like he's mentally checked out. Another bad FA signing but we're stuck with him for another year. Plus Moreau sucks and Dunbar can't stay healthy. Our secondary is a mess.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

To me you let Norman go. This team needs a rebuild and cap space. I will gladly take a 2-14 season if I know there is a plan.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Norman gets beat in coverage more than a dude making his money should.

But he is a savage as a CB against the run and is max effort.

I know he didn't live up to the contract, but before we let him walk out the door, think about what we would be losing in the secondary.

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Unless we think we’re a Super Bowl contender next year, there is no reason to keep an overpriced veterans like Norman around.



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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1215698]Unless we think we’re a Super Bowl contender next year, there is no reason to keep an overpriced veterans like Norman around.

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1215698]Unless we think we’re a Super Bowl contender next year, there is no reason to keep an overpriced veterans like Norman around.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]He is an over priced vet who plays hard all the time.

Who would you sign after you cut him?

What player without a flaw would come here unless we over paid by 15 to 20 percent?

Because I can go down the laundry list of FA busts over the last few years.

He is over priced but he is the best CB on the roster and it isn't even close.

Who are your 3 CBs week 1 next year?

Cutting him now only saves 8.5 on the cap btw:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/josh-norman/1177/[/url]

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Yeah Norman is way down the list of issues. He's staying. Can't really handle any more deadcap money anyways. We won't be able to sign anyone better.

My biggest needs: QB, FS, SS, CB2, LG.

If Dunbar is 100% cleared by the draft, I'd remove that and add WR.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

If Bruce is back I'm not watching

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Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1215702]He is an over priced vet who plays hard all the time.

Who would you sign after you cut him?

What player without a flaw would come here unless we over paid by 15 to 20 percent?

Because I can go down the laundry list of FA busts over the last few years.

He is over priced but he is the best CB on the roster and it isn't even close.

Who are your 3 CBs week 1 next year?

Cutting him now only saves 8.5 on the cap btw:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/josh-norman/1177/[/url]

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I don’t care who our CBs are next year. We’re not going to win. I’m concerned about 2020-2021


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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1215706]If Bruce is back I'm not watching

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Pretty much where I'm at. I'll be very disinterested in the season and probably will watch if nothing else to do, but won't deter other plans. People need to stop feeding Snyder and rewarding shitty behavior.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1215710]Pretty much where I'm at. I'll be very disinterested in the season and probably will watch if nothing else to do, but won't deter other plans. People need to stop feeding Snyder and rewarding shitty behavior.[/quote]

Snyder is betting on all our addictions to the Redskins. I almost think the true addicts like all of us here, need to turn it off 1st before anything significant will happen.

There has to be changes, otherwise Snyder is not just pissing in our cornflakes, he is dropping a hammer duece in them.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

I would like to see all the injury prone veterans be released or traded. We can't mask holes anymore, this team needs a complete rebuild. You have talented guys on defense that just needs the right DC to lead them.

The banged up guys and veteran guys need to go. What guarantee do you have that these guys will be healthy next year? or play for more than a few games before going out for the year?

Next year and possibly the year after should be about rebuilding and acquiring young players and collecting draft picks. Then build through the draft.

But its obvious that Jay and Bruce are not the guys to oversee a complete rebuild.....

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1215708]I don’t care who our CBs are next year. We’re not going to win. I’m concerned about 2020-2021


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Ahh. Ok. So tank and clean up the cap is your preferred goal?

Are you in favor of cutting/trading Reed, Kerrigan, and Trent before 2019 as well?

Unless they have all-pro years they're not living up to their numbers either.

[url]https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/[/url]

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Draft Grier in the 1St and start him day 1. This team isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Bruce isn't leaving neither is Jay because Dan knows nobody would want those jobs. Joke of a franchise

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1215714]Ahh. Ok. So tank and clean up the cap is your preferred goal?

Are you in favor of cutting/trading Reed, Kerrigan, and Trent before 2019 as well?

Unless they have all-pro years they're not living up to their numbers either.

[url]https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/[/url]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I would keep Kerrigan, TW and the dline of payne allen ionnaidis

That would be my nucleus. Anyone other than TW with injury history would be gone and everyone else would be on a short lifeline.

Of course that won't happen with Grudens keepm at all costs attitude

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1215717]I would keep Kerrigan, TW and the dline of payne allen ionnaidis

That would be my nucleus. Anyone other than TW with injury history would be gone and everyone else would be on a short lifeline.

Of course that won't happen with Grudens keepm at all costs attitude[/quote]

Cold blooded that you'd do my man Scherff like that. Coooooooooooooold blooooooooooooooooooooded.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1215719]Cold blooded that you'd do my man Scherff like that. Coooooooooooooold blooooooooooooooooooooded.[/QUOTE]I love Scherff and honestly i forgot him, but he also falls into the short rope category, if he has another injury shortened season. If we have to extend him this year i would but otherwise gotta see a healthy year.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

I could care less about next yr, Gruden sucks , Allen sucks, the team sucks. Why would anyone be optimistic?

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1215715]Draft Grier in the 1St and start him day 1. This team isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Bruce isn't leaving neither is Jay because Dan knows nobody would want those jobs. Joke of a franchise

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Money talks. There's no salary cap on coaches. People will come here for the money.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1215714]Ahh. Ok. So tank and clean up the cap is your preferred goal?

Are you in favor of cutting/trading Reed, Kerrigan, and Trent before 2019 as well?

Unless they have all-pro years they're not living up to their numbers either.

[url]https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/[/url]

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Yes, i am, but only with players whom we’d get good compensation and/or receive significant cap savings.

However, i would be inclined to keep a couple slightly overpaid players IF they are high character guys and leaders in the locker room.

But guys like reed and Norman are overpaid, not really leaders, and won’t be here down the road when we have hopefully rebuilt this thing so they aren’t really valuable to me



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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

I think all these keep/throw away reasonings need to be tied with an in depth cap space analysis.
And keep in mind what the Eagles were able to do cap wise, every body promised them cap hell and they pulled it out.

Haven't studied it yet because 100% of my mind was (and partly still is) hoping for coaching changes, but based on on field performance only I'd be keeping Norman. He has quietly played exceptionally well at times this year, he's had some bad games too, but I think with DBs we tend to forget the former quicker and remember the last longer.
I also think he's a strong character that can be a positive force in a locker room... with the proper coaching staff to harness him.

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1215725]Yes, i am, but only with players whom we’d get good compensation and/or receive significant cap savings.

However, i would be inclined to keep a couple slightly overpaid players IF they are high character guys and leaders in the locker room.

But guys like reed and Norman are overpaid, not really leaders, and won’t be here down the road when we have hopefully rebuilt this thing so they aren’t really valuable to me



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In the case of Norman he will probably be back since Dunbar is a ? and if you cut him and sign someone else, it will probably work out to be the same. As for Reed, who do you keep? Reed or 34 YO Davis? Still need another TE in addition to Sprinkle, roll the dice with Flanagan, Holtz?

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Wrong thread.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

Was hoping for some good new years news. Nope.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

You know what makes OK CBs look good? A pass rush.
We need a 12+ sack guy with a burst off the line.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1215720]I love Scherff and honestly i forgot him, but he also falls into the short rope category, if he has another injury shortened season. If we have to extend him this year i would but otherwise gotta see a healthy year.[/QUOTE]



This was the only year he’s missed time. He has to be extended.


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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1215743]This was the only year he’s missed time. He has to be extended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]If this is the year we have to decide, yes i agree.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1215747]If this is the year we have to decide, yes i agree.[/QUOTE]I think it's a no brainer to extend him.

He works hard, is one of the best in his league at his position, plays hurt, tough as nails.

He is the best thing to come out of the Mclovin era.

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

The Redskins need to cut Norman, Z. Brown, Mason Foster, Jordan Reed, and Colt McCoy....these releases would open up flexible cap space....

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1215754]The Redskins need to cut Norman, Z. Brown, Mason Foster, Jordan Reed, and Colt McCoy....these releases would open up flexible cap space....[/quote]

I think you have to keep Colt simply because he can at least run the offense. Not saying he should be given the job, he should have to compete for it w/ a rookie.

As far as the rest of them, Mason Foster has to go. He simply isn't a NFL caliber LB. He is just terrible. I don't care if he can make the calls, he flat out sucks, can't run, can't get off blocks. Please do not bring him back. Brown is already gone.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;1215754]The Redskins need to cut Norman, Z. Brown, Mason Foster, Jordan Reed, and Colt McCoy....these releases would open up flexible cap space....[/QUOTE]Besides Brandon Scherff, who would we be opening up cap space for?

And we can just extend his rookie deal another year if the team so chooses.

The real question is why is there any reason to think the next batch of free agents would be any better than those?

I'm in favor of moving on from them asap, but there needs to be a plan in place, whether it's trading for draft picks or w/e.

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Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1215754]The Redskins need to cut Norman, Z. Brown, Mason Foster, Jordan Reed, and Colt McCoy....these releases would open up flexible cap space....[/quote]

How would the cap space be used? not on Crowder, P.Smith, or Peterson

sure on Brandon S.

Most free agents are over paid , maybe some on 2nd tier free agents...TE, C, DB

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1215760]How would the cap space be used? not on Crowder, P.Smith, or Peterson

sure on Brandon S.

Most free agents are over paid , maybe some on 2nd tier free agents...TE, C, DB[/quote]

I would pay AP.
We aren't going to have stellar QB play next year so it's in our best interest to have a dynamic running game.

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1215756]I think you have to keep Colt simply because he can at least run the offense. Not saying he should be given the job, he should have to compete for it w/ a rookie.

As far as the rest of them, Mason Foster has to go. He simply isn't a NFL caliber LB. He is just terrible. I don't care if he can make the calls, he flat out sucks, can't run, can't get off blocks. Please do not bring him back. Brown is already gone.[/quote]


They should draft Khalil Hodge from Buffalo....I'm a big supporter of drafting rather than signing free agents like the GB Packers do..and I'm not big on Colt McCoy being a valuable backup....the only thing going for him is he knows this system....but he's really not good....and I have a problem with Gruden liking players that don't quite cut it like McCoy and Rob Kelly...

Re: Offseason starts now: A Redskins players thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1215757]Besides Brandon Scherff, who would we be opening up cap space for?

And we can just extend his rookie deal another year if the team so chooses.

The real question is why is there any reason to think the next batch of free agents would be any better than those?

I'm in favor of moving on from them asap, but there needs to be a plan in place, whether it's trading for draft picks or w/e.

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They either need to restructure current contracts or build through the draft....replace these players who are either often injured, play poorly, or don't contribute enough....