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-   -   Welcome Carson Wentz (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=65000)

skinsfaninok 03-09-2022 05:02 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
Wentz is better than Hurts and Jones guys letís seriously be real here. The eye test and stats will show that. Jones is a horrible passer and Hurts ainít much better.

Like I said heís not elite by any means but heís as good as the best option we had left which was Winston

BaltimoreSkins 03-09-2022 05:03 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
You put it more logically than I Schneed. In terms of salary low 20 mil is reasonable if he gets his bonuses then he had a good season and probably so did the team so no big deal there either.

Schneed10 03-09-2022 05:04 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=SunnySide;1312322]Agreed on everything said.

Why wouldnt we be on the hook for about 12.2M in bonus money? Ive seen this said but just by fans[/quote]

Those are roster bonuses in 2023 and 2024, they are not guaranteed. They only become guaranteed if he's on the roster by the third day after the league year starts. Cut him before then, don't owe him shit.

And PS fans don't know shit, I know shit.

mredskins 03-09-2022 05:04 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
All I want is to be half way excited about Sundays in the fall, that is all, I am a simple man.

skinsfan69 03-09-2022 05:04 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=Schneed10;1312319]If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.[/quote]

Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.

mredskins 03-09-2022 05:05 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=Schneed10;1312325]Those are roster bonuses in 2023 and 2024, they are not guaranteed. They only become guaranteed if he's on the roster by the third day after the league year starts. Cut him before then, don't owe him shit.

And PS fans don't know shit, I know shit.[/quote]

Did he really eat up all our money on the salary cap?

Chico23231 03-09-2022 05:07 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
Just gonna say homerun here. Much better trade a than MCNabb and Smith.

Telling me we retain both 1st and second this year and just a 2nd/3rd next yearÖand we didnít include a player for this quality of a QB? good job and fair deal IMO

I thought Wentz was best option outside of AR/Russ/Watson. I like this much better than Mitch Trub and especially Jimmy G. Wentz is better than Winston who is coming off a major injury.

This is competent and Ron is the perfect guy to have for Wentz to help him with whatever locker room problems he may have.

I love it

skinsfan69 03-09-2022 05:07 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=skinsfaninok;1312323]Wentz is better than Hurts and Jones guys letís seriously be real here. The eye test and stats will show that. Jones is a horrible passer and Hurts ainít much better.

Like I said heís not elite by any means but heís as good as the best option we had left which was Winston[/quote]

I will give you Jones. But no he is not better than Hurts. Nope. If he was better than he'd still be an Eagle.

Schneed10 03-09-2022 05:08 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=mredskins;1312328]Did he really eat up all our money on the salary cap?[/quote]

Yes we now have $5.9M remaining, before making moves on Landon Collins or others. Cutting Landon would create enough room to sign say a Bobby Wagner, if we wanted. There's still a lot that could be done to optimize cap space, you shouldn't look at the $5.9M remaining as like 'oh shit we just spent all our money'.

We can and still will make moves.

Chief X_Phackter 03-09-2022 05:09 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=Schneed10;1312319]If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.[/quote]

Well said. I agree 100%.

Chico23231 03-09-2022 05:10 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1312277]So we traded two 3rd round picks for him. He had 27 TDs and 7 ints last year. When he is healthy we've seen first hand what he can do. The risk is pretty minimal if you ask me. No matter what we did people were gonna be upset. We didn't get Rodgers nor Wilson, would you all rather trade away a first for Jimmy G.? I'm confused at those who are ticked off, what is the alternative solution? Heineke again? We know he isn't winning anything[/quote]

ThisÖgreat post Quake

Ruhskins 03-09-2022 05:11 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=skinsfan69;1312330]I will give you Jones. But no he is not better than Hurts. Nope. If he was better than he'd still be an Eagle.[/quote]

Despite your optimism about Hurts, the Eagles put in an offer on Wilson that got rejected by Seattle.

I don't totally disagree about your concerns about Wentz, but let's not act like the entire Eagles organization is behind Hurts.

Schneed10 03-09-2022 05:12 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=skinsfan69;1312327]Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

[B]I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.[/B]

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.[/quote]

Now you're just being irrational about the value of 2nd and 3rd rounders. They could be good, they could be complete non contributors, and they could end up as depth guys.

On the layup issue, I agree that's a problem, and ultimately what stops him from being considered anything better than an average starter. At the same time Bridgewater has never thrown for 27 touchdowns. So he might make layups but that's all he makes. Jameis, well he makes half court shots but he also turns the ball over like crazy.

I think you're looking at having to commit more guaranteed money to Teddy and Jameis than you think. There are still teams out there thirsty for QBs. Let's revisit this in a few weeks once those guys have signed. Bet you feel better about not having any guaranteed money committed to Wentz once you see what those guys get on the market.

mooby 03-09-2022 05:20 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=skinsfan69;1312327]Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. [B]As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.[/B]

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.[/quote]

Who is our best player?

Ruhskins 03-09-2022 05:22 PM

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 
[quote=mooby;1312336]Who is our best player?[/quote]

Terry?


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