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SouperMeister 01-09-2013 04:45 PM

To Read Option, or Not
 
I may be in the minority on this, but I do not believe Shanny should abandon the read option. By the middle of the season, Griffin was so good at reading defensive ends, that when he opted to keep the ball, he always seemed to get 10+ yards untouched before either sliding or scampering out of bounds. Fact of the matter, his concussion against Atlanta and his initial LCL injury against Baltimore came when a passing play broke down, and he tried to get too much out of his legs instead of throwing the ball away or sliding earlier. It's on Griffin to get better at protecting himself in those situations.

What became clear to me is that a healthy Griffin running read option out of the pistol paralyzes even the most dominant defensive ends, forcing them to read [I]then[/I] react. I strongly believe that if we run a normal pocket passing attack, Griffin will take more hits from the likes of JPP, Umenyiora, Trent Cole, and Demarcus Ware.

JoeRedskin 01-09-2013 05:05 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
No disagreement from me. If he learns to slide and get out of bounds, Griffin can run the read all day long. Just like learning to take the sack when there is nowhere to go, however, Griffin needs to learn that sometimes, taking a loss or minimal gain on the R/O is the best play there is - no need to risk injury to win [I]every [/I]play.

GMScud 01-09-2013 05:28 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
I agree. Keep it going. It was unstoppable. Like you said, his injuries didn't happen running the RO. Also, you've got to think we'll upgrade the O-line to help those pocket passing situations too. A lot of our schemes this year put lipstick on a pig so to speak with regard to the quality of our O-line. They did a fine job zone-blocking for the running game, but the truth is they leave a lot to be desired as far as straight up pass-pro.

Ruhskins 01-09-2013 06:40 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Keep running it...although I wonder how long until NFL defenses can catch up? Still, kinda hard to defend it when you have a running-QB who can pass and not a QB like Tebow.

los panda 01-09-2013 07:14 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Ruhskins;987183]Keep running it...although I wonder how long until NFL defenses can catch up? Still, kinda hard to defend it when you have a running-QB who can pass and not a QB like Tebow.[/quote]holla

budw38 01-09-2013 07:41 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
I wouldn't scrap it , but wouldn't use it as often . upgrade the OL and we can line up and run downhill , not to mention better pass protection .

MTK 01-09-2013 07:51 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
I think you can mix it in, but I think the natural evolution of the offense needs to continue to move away from it. You can still take advantage of his athleticism with the boots and play action off that.

Coff 01-09-2013 07:59 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
It's been pointed out that a few of RG's injuries happened not on the read option but when he had to scramble. So the problem has more to do with what JoeRedskin mentioned, that he needs to develop finer instincts regarding when to slide or get out of bounds.

Two other things worth mentioning; first, we relied on the read option more after Davis went down. Assuming we re-sign him, the offense has one more weapon to use that lease a the importance of the option. Secondly, Shanny has mentioned nervous times that RG's potential goes far beyond what has heretofore been utilized in the offense, and (as Mattyk pointed out) the offense will continue to evolve with Griffin.

los panda 01-09-2013 08:01 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Mattyk;987193]I think you can mix it in, but I think the natural evolution of the offense needs to continue to move away from it. You can still take advantage of his athleticism with the boots and play action off that.[/quote]matty, when he comes back, he's going to be drew bledsoe

SmootSmack 01-09-2013 09:10 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Not two weeks ago we (well I at least) were praising the brilliance of the read option and how it completely neutralized Ware and the Dallas Cowboys.

I say keep it as part of the repertoire. More teams I think will use more before the Redskins use it less in my opinion

MTK 01-09-2013 09:13 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=los panda;987196]matty, when he comes back, he's going to be drew bledsoe[/quote]

We'll be transitioning to the Statue of Liberty offense

Hog1 01-09-2013 09:48 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
.......in West Virginia

BigHairedAristocrat 01-09-2013 09:54 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Only idiots who don't know what they're talking about think the read option offense somehow puts rg3 at greater risk of injury. As long as the offense works, keep running it.

Monkeydad 01-10-2013 09:30 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Ruhskins;987183]Keep running it...although I wonder how long until NFL defenses can catch up? Still, kinda hard to defend it when you have a running-QB who can pass and not a QB like Tebow.[/quote]

Idea. Cut Rex and get Tebow for QB3. Dead serious.

[quote=Mattyk;987209]We'll be transitioning to the Statue of Liberty offense[/quote]

We need taller receivers. Bring back Marco Mitchell and Malcolm Kelly.

donofriose 01-10-2013 09:56 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Should not be a staple of the offense, but would be a good play to use on 2nd on 4 or short 2nd downs. Obviously the less hits Griffin takes the better. In my opinion he should only keep it if there is a wide open field and the DE crashes down, otherwise if its a staple of the offense teams will just start going right after griffin and making sure to hit him, even if it costs them a flag every once in a while, similar to what the Patriots did to Tebow when they tried to do it against the Pats. The Patriots just sent a DE only responsible for Tebow and every time he handed it off right away he would be hit.

Lotus 01-10-2013 10:03 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Absolutely read option. Kyle should spend the next few months evaluating his offense to add new wrinkles, making it version 2.0. Keep both the pistol and the read option but don't stand pat in terms of scheme.

Dirtbag59 01-10-2013 10:49 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Ironically the thread title should be to dropback pass or not. After like the 2nd or 3rd week RG3 never took a big hit on a read option play. The only time he took big shots was on traditional passing plays where he scrambled. Most notably the Ngata hit and the Weatherspoon hit. In fact the read option ended up being our safest direct play for RG3.

BigHairedAristocrat 01-10-2013 10:59 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=donofriose;987332]Should not be a staple of the offense, but would be a good play to use on 2nd on 4 or short 2nd downs. [B]Obviously the less hits Griffin takes the better[/B]. In my opinion he should only keep it if there is a wide open field and the DE crashes down, otherwise if its a staple of the offense teams will just start going right after griffin and making sure to hit him, even if it costs them a flag every once in a while, similar to what the Patriots did to Tebow when they tried to do it against the Pats. The Patriots just sent a DE only responsible for Tebow and every time he handed it off right away he would be hit.[/quote]

Your first sentence conflicts with your second. RGIII is more likely to take big hits on drop back passing situations than he is running the option from the pistol. The threat of both he and Morris running, along with Griffins ability to sell the fake handoff, creates a momentary hesitation in defenders, buying him more time to get rid of the ball (avoid tacklers) than he'd have in a pure dropback pass situation. If you want RGIII to take less hits, you want him to run the option more, not less.

The read option is also the #1 reason why Morris gets so many yards on running plays, creating more 2nd and 3rd and short. Its all about the THREAT of RGIII running.

skinsfan69 01-10-2013 01:47 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Keep running it. It would be stupid not to run it. However I would like to see more 4-5 wr sets and a no huddle offense. He did those things so well at Baylor.

los panda 01-10-2013 01:48 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=skinsfan69;987407]Keep running it. It would be stupid not to run it. However I would like to see more 4-5 wr sets and a no huddle offense. He did those things so well at Baylor.[/quote]double dog dare defenses to blitz

SouperMeister 01-10-2013 02:00 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=los panda;987409]double dog dare defenses to blitz[/quote]Let's go for the breach of etiquette, and straight to the triple dog dare :silly:

Evilgrin 01-10-2013 04:17 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
We saw it so much less in the second half, before he got hurt. Russel Wilson ran it 3 times I think? I don't think we use it much more then that.

SouperMeister 01-10-2013 04:21 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Evilgrin;987463][B]We saw it so much less in the second half, before he got hurt.[/B] Russel Wilson ran it 3 times I think? I don't think we use it much more then that.[/quote]That's because he was hurt 2 plays before the 2nd Skins TD in the first quarter. Griffin was essentially dragging his leg the rest of the game.

Evilgrin 01-10-2013 04:23 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=SouperMeister;987465]That's because he was hurt 2 plays before the 2nd Skins TD in the first quarter. Griffin was essentially dragging his leg the rest of the game.[/quote]

Sorry second half of the season, he averages about 8 run attempts per game. Figure maybe half of those are designed option runs, with the other half being scrambles.

REDSKINS4ever 01-10-2013 04:44 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
The read option should continue to be valuable play in the Redskins scheme of things. I say we should keep it. Because it was from a college football playbook, I was surprised how NFL defenses had all types of problems stopping the read option all season long. Will there ever come a time when RG3 will run the tradition Shanahan modified West Coast Offense? Probably so...but until then the coaches should continue to implement what's been working.

budw38 01-10-2013 07:13 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
For what it's worth , we ran the ball very well at the end of 2011 , with Rex @ qb , the left side of our line out TW/KL , no F. Davis , with Royster @ rb. I think we should continue to use what worked in '12 , maybe run some miss-direction .... Houston Oilers w/ E. Campbell , and maybe some strech plays , Manning / Indy ? We have plenty of talent at our skill postions . Hope one of the youngsters on the OL can step up .

GoSkins! 01-10-2013 07:23 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Dirtbag59;987361]Ironically the thread title should be to dropback pass or not. After like the 2nd or 3rd week RG3 never took a big hit on a read option play. The only time he took big shots was on traditional passing plays where he scrambled. Most notably the Ngata hit and the Weatherspoon hit. In fact the read option ended up being our safest direct play for RG3.[/quote]

Agreed. He just needs to learn to slide or dive forward on the scrambles. He seems to take awkward angles, like sliding sideways, when it isn't a planned run. We are talking about him getting to the ground differently for about 10 plays all year. He gets those right, he can have a long career playing the same game he did this year.

SouperMeister 01-12-2013 02:25 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=GoSkins!;987500]Agreed. He just needs to learn to slide or dive forward on the scrambles. He seems to take awkward angles, like sliding sideways, when it isn't a planned run. We are talking about him getting to the ground differently for about 10 plays all year. He gets those right, he can have a long career playing the same game he did this year.[/quote]If there is one thing that I wish Griffin did as well as Russell Wilson, it would be to protect himself while still getting positive yards with his legs. Wilson was a professional baseball player, so sliding to him is much more second nature than it is to Griffin.

Counter-Tre 01-12-2013 02:50 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Keep the play, replace the field.

REDSKINS4ever 01-13-2013 07:49 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
Rg3 has to have learned. When a 350 pound NT crashes into your leg and kills your knee, then you begin to think of what can be done differently. Diving, sliding, and running out of bounds should be his focus when he's running out there with the pigskin.

skinsfaninok 03-14-2013 08:43 PM

Philadelphia.

“I’ve probably spoke to 20 scouts today [at the West Virginia Pro Day workout] and what everyone is doing right now is preparing to stop this read option this whole offseason,” Jaworski said. “Either the QB is going to get crushed or someone is going to stop it. I think it’s going to be a combination of both.”

He added that Eagles coach Chip Kelly will not be able to run his Oregon offense at the NFL level. “Categorically, it will not work,” Jaworski said.

From Ron Jaworski.

Skins4L 03-15-2013 05:19 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
I think we should truly "sprinkle" it in. I remember an interview with RG stating how they "sprinkle it in". Sike. That wasnt a sprinkle that was damn near the whole salt shaker. Shanny needs to make sure they call keepers far and between.

Monkeydad 03-15-2013 11:38 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
If we abandon it, we're not utilizing Griffin's talent to its fullest potential.

Until the league catches up and learns how to stop it, keep going pedal to the metal.

I do not believe the league's defenses CAN stop it. It's not a scheme that they have to figure out like Hideo Nomo's quirky wind-up or the Dolphin's Wildcat experiment...you can't really learn something that presents itself as completely unpredictable. Griffin's fake handoffs are like Houdini's tricks. He's so good at hiding the ball so well that no one knows where it is that you can't learn how to defend it. It will always freeze defenders and send them in the wrong directions. It's not something they can adjust to, they have to either hesitate until they know for sure who has the ball, or they have to gamble one way or the other. Maybe a new defensive alignment can be developed to try to cover the field better, but the offense is based on causing the defense to guess and react.

I don't see this being a fading trend. It works. We have changed the way the pro game is played.

Monkeydad 03-15-2013 11:43 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=REDSKINS4ever;987471]The read option should continue to be valuable play in the Redskins scheme of things. I say we should keep it. Because it was from a college football playbook, I was surprised how NFL defenses had all types of problems stopping the read option all season long. Will there ever come a time when RG3 will run the tradition Shanahan modified West Coast Offense? Probably so...but until then the coaches should continue to implement what's been working.[/quote]

If he really slows down or injuries pile up and we really need to make protecting him a priority, we'll revert to Mike Shanahans QB rollouts that worked with Elway, Plummer and Cousins vs. Cleveland.

I THOUGHT this is what we'd run with RGIII. He fakes a handoff and rolls out with the option to take off running if there is no open receivers. I never imagined the offense we have now. I don't think anyone saw it coming.

CRedskinsRule 03-15-2013 11:43 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
MD hit one part of exactly right, Griffin's fakes are amazing, both he and Morris have said they really don't know who will get it until the last split second. That will freeze the defender each time. What you did see in the SB was the Ravens taking a shot at CK nearly each time, but I think that was on CK, he held his fake too long letting the defender get near him. Griffin's decision making and execution is a huge part of making it work at the NFL level.

BigHairedAristocrat 03-15-2013 11:52 AM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;998869]MD hit one part of exactly right, Griffin's fakes are amazing, both he and Morris have said they really don't know who will get it until the last split second. That will freeze the defender each time. What you did see in the SB was the Ravens taking a shot at CK nearly each time, but I think that was on CK, he held his fake too long letting the defender get near him. Griffin's decision making and execution is a huge part of making it work at the NFL level.[/quote]

Exactly. The only way defenses can stop it is if Griffin has some sort of "tell" that defenses learn to pick up on to know what he's going to do with the ball.

FRPLG 03-15-2013 12:01 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
We're not getting rid of it and defenses aren't going to "figure it out" enough to eliminate it. What we won't be able to do probably is take it and utilize it for 80-100% of a particular game plan like we did once in a while last year. It will have to be a component of a more diverse game plan like it was for us most of the time last year.

In the end all the other punk teams can run it and have it neutralized but they don't have who we have to run it. THAT makes a huge difference.

Skinzman 03-15-2013 12:09 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;998869]MD hit one part of exactly right, Griffin's fakes are amazing, both he and Morris have said they really don't know who will get it until the last split second. That will freeze the defender each time. What you did see in the SB was the Ravens taking a shot at CK nearly each time, but I think that was on CK, he held his fake too long letting the defender get near him. [B]Griffin's decision making and execution is a huge part of making it work at the NFL level[/B].[/quote]

I agree with the bolded statement, but what most people seem to forget about when it comes to the read option. It is used in college to replace someone who doesnt throw well but is athletic. The people saying it will be stopped tend to refer to that some colleges are already shutting it down.

The problem is that you dont draft a QB in the NFL who you dont believe can throw. Stack the defense to stop the read option, and RG3 will go over the top. Keep showing that look and OC's are smart enough to show the read option look but bring in a blocker last second to seal off the the people looking for the read option and pass over the top of it.

The read option is not the offense. It is a play within the entire whole. That makes it something that you cant deploy 11 players on defense to stop, you still have to respect the fact that RG3, Kaep, and Wilson can all throw the ball. That respect is not always there in college when it comes to the read option, and rightly so.

CRedskinsRule 03-15-2013 12:59 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=Skinzman;998886]I agree with the bolded statement, but what most people seem to forget about when it comes to the read option. It is used in college to replace someone who doesnt throw well but is athletic. The people saying it will be stopped tend to refer to that some colleges are already shutting it down.

The problem is that you dont draft a QB in the NFL who you dont believe can throw. Stack the defense to stop the read option, and RG3 will go over the top. Keep showing that look and OC's are smart enough to show the read option look but bring in a blocker last second to seal off the the people looking for the read option and pass over the top of it.

The read option is not the offense. It is a play within the entire whole. That makes it something that you cant deploy 11 players on defense to stop, you still have to respect the fact that RG3, Kaep, and Wilson can all throw the ball. That respect is not always there in college when it comes to the read option, and rightly so.[/quote]

Very good points

The Goat 03-15-2013 01:31 PM

Re: To Read Option, or Not
 
[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;987229]Only idiots who don't know what they're talking about think the read option offense somehow puts rg3 at greater risk of injury. As long as the offense works, keep running it.[/quote]

:doh:

I mean, the sheer ignorance of this statement is why I wonder/have wondered if you're a kid. Historical evidence, logic and basic common sense are completely at odds with this nonsense you continue to spout.

1. Running QBs by and large tend to break down faster than pocket passers, period. Again, how is it that you can be a football fan and not recognize this most simple of observations?

2. Statistically speaking (here's the logic angle) the more hits any player takes, but especially a QB much smaller than the defenders he faces, increases the risk of injury. Can really bad hits/injuries happen in the pocket? Of course, as everybody wants to bring Tom Brady into this debate. Guess what, it took Brady nearly 10 years to suffer a season ending injury, while RG suffered one in less than 10 months.

3. Common sense, son. Just plain common sense. You're opening up your franchise player to ferocious hits in the most brutal sport in the world.

The "perfect world" argument, of RG learning/knowing when to slide or drop to the turf or get out of bounce is as nonsensical as ignoring the above realities. Nobody's perfect to begin with. Add to it this is a sport where things happen in an instant, defenders appear from seemingly nowhere, and they're all gonna be head-hunting RG when he becomes a runner, it's hard for me to fathom why any Redskins/RG fan would prefer over exposing him. Wonders never cease...


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