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-   -   Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=46687)

artmonkforhallofamein07 02-25-2012 12:34 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
I like the idea of bringing in RT, but he has only been playing the position of QB for 1 1/2 years. We are talking about drafting the guy at #6. It seems to me a guy like that would be available later in the first round to even later rounds in the draft, more like 3.

I do not know anything about the kid or his skills as I do not have the time to watch and follow allot of college football. There must be plenty of room for growth in his game given his limited exp at the position. I would find it hard to believe that an injured player who has not gone through the combine, senior bowl, or pro day and be a first round draft pick. He will need time to learn the speed of the game as well as playing against NFL defenses, and would be better suited going to a team with good teachers and preferably with a great QB. He should sit for a couple of years to hone his game.

So in summary I could get behind drafting RT if we sign Manning, and later in the draft.

diehard 02-25-2012 12:43 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;888701]I like the idea of bringing in RT, but he has only been playing the position of QB for 1 1/2 years. We are talking about drafting the guy at #6. It seems to me a guy like that would be available later in the first round to even later rounds in the draft, more like 3.

I do not know anything about the kid or his skills as I do not have the time to watch and follow allot of college football. There is plenty of room for growth in his game I am sure. I would also find it hard to believe that an injured player who has not gone through the combine, senior bowl, or pro day and would be somewhat behind as he is starting out injured. He won't be a day one starter.

He will need time to learn the speed of the game as well as playing against NFL defenses.[/quote]

I'm with AM4HOF07. Tannehill has a lot of things working against him. If the Skins cannot get him in the 2nd round, no one should be upset. There will be other 2nd tier QBs available then with heightened value.

SmootSmack 02-25-2012 12:54 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
It's more of an anomaly in his career that RT played WR for a year and a half than anything else

Lotus 02-25-2012 12:59 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;888701]I like the idea of bringing in RT, but [B]he has only been playing the position of QB for 1 1/2 years. [/B]We are talking about drafting the guy at #6. It seems to me a guy like that would be available later in the first round to even later rounds in the draft, more like 3.

I do not know anything about the kid or his skills as I do not have the time to watch and follow allot of college football. There must be plenty of room for growth in his game given his limited exp at the position. I would find it hard to believe that an injured player who has not gone through the combine, senior bowl, or pro day and be a first round draft pick. He will need time to learn the speed of the game as well as playing against NFL defenses, and would be better suited going to a team with good teachers and preferably with a great QB. He should sit for a couple of years to hone his game.

So in summary I could get behind drafting RT if we sign Manning, and later in the draft.[/quote]

Actually Tannehill played QB in high school and started out college as a QB. WR is the blip on his personal radar, not QB.

diehard 02-25-2012 01:00 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=SmootSmack;888707]It's more of an anomaly in his career that RT played WR for a year and a half than anything else[/quote]

I would love to play the race card here.

SmootSmack 02-25-2012 01:09 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=diehard;888712]I would love to play the race card here.[/quote]

There's no need to

CultBrennan59 02-25-2012 01:18 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/2/24/2823076/redskins-reportedly-hold-informal-talks-with-the-rams-about-2nd]Redskins Reportedly Hold Informal Talks With the Rams About 2nd Overall Pick - Hogs Haven[/url]

30gut 02-25-2012 03:52 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;888701]I like the idea of bringing in RT, but he has only been playing the position of QB for 1 1/2 years. We are talking about drafting the guy at #6. It seems to me a guy like that would be available later in the first round to even later rounds in the draft, more like 3. [/quote]While it may seem to you that a QB like Tannehill will be available in the later rounds he won't.
And just for sake of reference he will have [I][B]more[/B][/I] starts then both Sanchez and Cam Newton both of whom were day 1 starters.


[quote]I do not know anything about the kid or his skills[/quote]Then how could you possibly understand why he's considered a tier 1 QB prospect?

[quote]He will need time to learn the speed of the game as well as playing against NFL defenses, and would be better suited going to a team with good teachers and preferably with a great QB. He should sit for a couple of years to hone his game.[/quote]
There's as much to suggest that he could be a day 1 or midseason as their is to suggest that he needs to sit for a season.
Whether a QB is ready to start early is as much about the coaching staff's ability to get the QB comfortable in the offense as it as about the prospect themself.
And for our offense Tannehill has a distinct advantage over other QB prospects because his playing experience comes in an offense that is a direct variant of our offense under Mike Sherman.
Sherman was the OC at Houston under Gary Kubiac.
Kyle learned our current offense from Houston under Kubiac.
Kubiac learned the offense from Mike Shanahan.
Tannehill would enter training camp with a much better knowledge of the verbiage and passing concepts and footwork specific to this offense then any other prospect.

30gut 02-25-2012 04:00 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
Good interview with Matt Waldman from [U]Rookie Scouting Portfolio[/U] about Luck, Griffin and Tannehill

[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2012/02/22/breaking-down-luck-griffin-and-tannehill/]HomerMcFanboy breaking down luck, griffin and tannehill[/url]

GTripp0012 02-25-2012 04:21 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=30gut;888731]Good interview with Matt Waldman from [U]Rookie Scouting Portfolio[/U] about Luck, Griffin and Tannehill

[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2012/02/22/breaking-down-luck-griffin-and-tannehill/]HomerMcFanboy breaking down luck, griffin and tannehill[/url][/quote]It gets hard to take certain evaluators seriously when they keep concluding that Luck doesn't have an elite physical skill set. If after three seasons at Stanford, we still have to wait until Luck's pro day to establish that he's a cut above the rest in the way he throws the football, that's going to be problematic for the entire draft process.

I agree that Griffin and Luck offer very, very different methodologies of getting to the same end. But the thing that they share is that they consistently complete about 70% at the college level. I think teams are perfectly in their rights to prefer one players physical tools over the other, although the biggest difference between Griffin and Luck remains their starting point. Griffin's career as a professional will begin on draft day. Luck's effectively began two years ago.

Saying that Tannehill is in the class of Luck or Griffin in terms of physical assets seems more like trying to see exactly how much bs will stick before someone calls you on it. I think Tannehill in the Redskins offense offers an intriguing alternative to Robert Griffin, because of terminology familiarity. But ultimately, I think Tannehill would run into the same long term problem here that he hit at Texas A&M, which is that the offense doesn't effectively use him as the dual threat he can be, and instead relies on him as a pocket passer with a boot/counter component, which just makes him another guy in this league (just like he ended up being at Texas A&M).

I like Tannehill's long term prospects a lot better in a system that spreads horizontally, such as Green Bay, Kansas City, or Seattle. He might have to learn new terminology, but I think he'll be better for it in the long run. Alternatively, I think Griffin can succeed in any system, but I think he'll always struggle to overcome the people who will bias unconventional pocket mechanics with the inability to perform in the pocket (i.e. the people who don't think Philip Rivers is a great quarterback).

30gut 02-25-2012 06:48 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=GTripp0012;888733]It gets hard to take certain evaluators seriously when they keep concluding that Luck doesn't have an elite physical skill set. If after three seasons at Stanford, we still have to wait until Luck's pro day to establish that he's a cut above the rest in the way he throws the football, that's going to be problematic for the entire draft process.....the biggest difference between Griffin and Luck remains their starting point. Griffin's career as a professional will begin on draft day. Luck's effectively began two years ago.[/quote]I agree, but that isn't what Waldman is concluding.
I agree with Waldman because I think his view of the top 3 is similar to mine.
There is no doubt that Luck has an elite physical skillset or Griffin; however and I think this is where we diverge, from a [B][I]physical skill set[/I][/B] only standpoint Tannehill is on the same plane as Luck and Griffin.

I think a large portion of what separates Luck from the other prospects is directly related to Harbaugh.
And I mean that as a compliment to both.
I think Jim Harbaugh is currently the premiere QB guru in the NFL.
His success with Josh Johnson and San Deigo State followed by Luck at Stanford and Alex Smith in the NFL is proof positive for me that Harbaugh know how to coach the QB position.
Consequently Luck is one of the most ready to play NFL QBs I can remember.
And you couple that with his physical skill set (size, mobility, [I][B]playmaking[/B][/I]); he's clearly the top QB in this draft class.
But, even if he Luck didn't have the benefit of Harbaugh's 'AP QB classes' his physical skill set would still make him a top prospect.

But, the QB prospects imo are viewed differently from coaches then by GMs.
Imo when a GM sees a QB like Luck they value his 'pro-readiness' more then coaches especially ones that view themselves as QB gurus.
Pro-readiness to a GM means: QB's X success is less contingent upon my coaching staff's ability to 'coach him up' and to a GM that is very valueable.
But, coaches might think QB's Y skill set is near QB X's skill set and my coaching can make QB's Y skill set produce the same results as QB X.

[quote]Saying that Tannehill is in the class of Luck or Griffin in terms of physical assets seems more like trying to see exactly how much bs will stick before someone calls you on it.[/quote]Why?
If I was judging on [U]physical skill set alone[/U] I would have Tannehill [I][B]ahead[/B][/I] of Luck. (especially arm talent and athletic ability)
But, of course evaluating any prospect is based on far more then physical skill set alone.
And for that reason I have Luck and Griffin ahead of Tannehill.

[quote] I think Tannehill in the Redskins offense offers an intriguing alternative to Robert Griffin, because of terminology familiarity. But ultimately, I think Tannehill would run into the same long term problem here that he hit at Texas A&M... the offense doesn't effectively use him as the dual threat he can be, and instead relies on him as a pocket passer with a boot/counter component, which just makes him another guy in this league (just like he ended up being at Texas A&M).[/quote]When we start trying to parse what went wrong at A&M you're sliding down a slippery slope.
Football is the ultimate team sport and its hard to isolate a particular issue as grand scale problem.
But, since we're already there; I think the A&M offense suffered from a talent disparity (e.g. A&M lacks the draftable and 1st round talent on offense that Stanford and Baylor have) coupled with poor defensive unit and scared playcalling.
And certainly some of the issues above could hinder Tannehill or any QB we draft to this team.

last thought
-I think Tannehill and Griffin are both scheme diverse

NM Redskin 02-25-2012 07:02 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=diehard;888712]I would love to play the race card here.[/quote]

Post on ExtremeSkins much? Well you should.

artmonkforhallofamein07 02-25-2012 10:18 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
[quote=Lotus;888711]Actually Tannehill played QB in high school and started out college as a QB. WR is the blip on his personal radar, not QB.[/quote]

Thanks for that info. I thought it was the other way around. A WR converted to QB, not a Qb converted to a WR then back to a QB.

TBH I have learned most about his game from you guys. The game or two that I did watch of him I came away unimpressed for sure. This is where my reluctance to take a player that high came from.

44Deezel 02-25-2012 11:30 AM

Re: Eight QBs and Where The Latest Rumors Have Them Going
 
I wouldn't be surprised if RGIII expresses a strong desire to play for the Redskins when he meets with the coaching staff today. Growing up as an Army brat may give him a greater appreciation for the Nations Capital than other prospects, and if his folks decide to follow him to the area, they may be down as well. Would be a great story. Young man from a Military family leading the DC team back to prominence. We are, after all, the Capital of the free world!!!!


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