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-   -   How many starting RBs are worse than Portis? (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=32793)

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 09:21 AM

How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I know our line is in shambles, but Portis leaves yards on the field. No explosiveness, no quickness, and he doesn't even think he needs to practice.

How did he not score on that 78 yard run? One defender, one blocker, and one CP = a FG???? Every other starting RB in the league scores easily.

He is a disgrace to the Burgandy and Gold!!!!!

MTK 10-19-2009 09:28 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
CP is a middle of the pack kind of starter right now. We could do better, but we could do much worse. Behind a good OL I think he could still be very effective, but it's to the point now where I think it's time to shake things up. He's not worth the big dollars he's making and he's not a leader off the field. Time to move on.

redsk1 10-19-2009 09:28 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
That's a little much to say he's a disgrace.

I understand your point though. He has slowed. I think we need to semi-clean house on the offensive side of the ball, CP included. Just look at our division.

B Jacobs and Bradshaw
Barber, Jones, and Choice
Westbrook and McCoy

I think they all have better "weapons" at RB than we do. Not to mention, Betts, who is average IMO as well.

bigant 10-19-2009 09:29 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
when you taken a beaten like he has the last year and half,your body wears down,believe me he is still very good, now our quarterback and head coach that,s a whole other subject.......................

djnemo65 10-19-2009 09:30 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
It was really apparent in yesterday's game how much lateral quickness he's lost. He has no explosiveness out of his cuts anymore. Yeah he could do well behind a great line but so could most NFL backs. He's just a guy at this point, just one who happens to be making mega millions.

Green1 10-19-2009 09:34 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=maroonandblack30;611700]I know our line is in shambles, but Portis leaves yards on the field. No explosiveness, no quickness, and he doesn't even think he needs to practice.

How did he not score on that 78 yard run? One defender, one blocker, and one CP = a FG???? Every other starting RB in the league scores easily.

He is a disgrace to the Burgandy and Gold!!!!![/quote]

2 K. Smith DET and Hightower Cards, but they are all equally bad. Portis only started running hard after Betts started the 2nd half. But he should have got a chance to run it in, Zorn goes empty backfield after a 80 yard run! [B]Mason[/B] should be starting running back he has explosiveness and quickness. Betts is just Portis with less speed but better hands.

jamf 10-19-2009 09:34 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
he was a probowler last year and lead the league in rushing for most of the year.

He needs lanes to run through. Im in the minority here but I think he is still one of the better backs in the league.

freddyg12 10-19-2009 09:36 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
pretty harsh assessment, but I have been pretty critical of CP the last few games. During each game he's missed holes totally, loses his balance & takes too long to cut. Remember how sharp his cutbacks used to be? Now he slows down to a studder step before changing directions.

I wish he could finish his career here, be a 3rd down/backup, but he's already a problem in his current role. Don't see him adjusting to a lesser role yet. I fear that things might get ugly between he & the skins (DS) before it's over.

Southpaw 10-19-2009 09:38 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I agree with the sentiment that Portis isn't as effective as he has been in the past. I'd also be willing to agree with the idea that he represents what's wrong with the Redskins organization, but to use the word "disgrace" to describe Clinton Portis is a bit over the line.

This offense(the offense that Gibbs put together) has sputtered for six seasons. The two times in those six seasons that Washington was able to make a playoff push, Clinton Portis was basically carrying the team on his back. Yes, he's lost his explosiveness and he probably doesn't have much tread left on the tires, but that certainly does not make him a disgrace.

freddyg12 10-19-2009 09:38 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=jamf;611716]he was a probowler last year and lead the league in rushing for most of the year.

He needs lanes to run through. Im in the minority here but I think he is still one of the better backs in the league.[/quote]

There are a lot of good rbs in the nfl, and most teams have one that is in their prime. CP isn't even a top 20 back at this point. To his credit, he can still block very well, but even in that dept. he seems less tenacious than in years past.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 09:41 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=redsk1;611704]That's a little much to say he's a disgrace.

I understand your point though. He has slowed. I think we need to semi-clean house on the offensive side of the ball, CP included. Just look at our division.

B Jacobs and Bradshaw
Barber, Jones, and Choice
Westbrook and McCoy

I think they all have better "weapons" at RB than we do. Not to mention, Betts, who is average IMO as well.[/quote]

His lack of talent isn't why he is a disgrace IMO....its his lack of talent combined with his apparent unwillingness to work hard to overcome his eroding skills....HE WON"T EVEN PRACTICE!!!!! I don't know how Zorn keeps putting him on the field if he never practices, especially now that he is average at best.

Betts has no heart...he didn't even want to go to team where he could start after his breakout season in 2006, that tells me all I need to know about him.

The skins have WAY too may guys who are fat and happy cause they are getting paid....I swear the fans care more when they lose the 50% of the players.

Lotus 10-19-2009 09:41 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I think this is Portis' last year with the Redskins.

irish 10-19-2009 09:46 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Mattyk72;611703]CP is a middle of the pack kind of starter right now. We could do better, but we could do much worse. Behind a good OL I think he could still be very effective, but it's to the point now where I think it's time to shake things up. He's not worth the big dollars he's making and he's not a leader off the field. Time to move on.[/quote]

I agree, especially about the $. I dont know about being very effective but he'd be better behind a better O line. I would also add that he's not much of a leader on the field either since he almost never practices (I know he's dinged) and with the offense sputtering the way it is I think the vets need to step up in their preparation whether they are dinged or not.

I'd love to see things shaken up but Betts looks slower than CP. The Skins are really showing the effects of giving away draft picks because it seems they just dont have any young talent ready to step in and take the reigns.

firstdown 10-19-2009 09:53 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I just think its very hard to tell if CP has slowed or the O just gives him no lanes to run through. It seems he is always fighting to get past the line where other RB are fighting to get past LB and thats the big problem.

jamf 10-19-2009 09:58 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=freddyg12;611722]There are a lot of good rbs in the nfl, and most teams have one that is in their prime. CP isn't even a top 20 back at this point. To his credit, he can still block very well, but even in that dept. he seems less tenacious than in years past.[/quote]

He is 7th in the league in rushing!
We don't ever have a lead in the 4th quarter so we can't pound the ball and get him more yards and we can't sustain drives or convert 3rd downs yet he is still 7th in the league.

He's been running through the same gaps on the left side of the field because we can't create holes on the right side. Defenses know this and he is still 7th in rushing. He isn't the gamebreaker AP or Chris Johnson is but he is still our best offensive weapon, Sorry mancrush cooley fans.


There is not a runningback in the league that would be successful behind this offensive line!

Monkeydad 10-19-2009 09:59 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
Put any RB behind this O-Line, with Zorn calling plays...and see if they can produce.


Portis just had the longest run of his career yesterday, he still has it. He's the best blocking RB in the NFL and can take more punishment than anyone...look how guys like Parker and Westbrook, even Tomlinson are always getting hurt. Portis plays through injuries and can still be successful if he gets any blocking whatsoever and there's not a monkey calling the same stretch running play in every crucial situation.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 10:03 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=jamf;611738]He is 7th in the league in rushing!
We don't ever have a lead in the 4th quarter so we can't pound the ball and get him more yards and we can't sustain drives or convert 3rd downs yet he is still 7th in the league.

He's been running through the same gaps on the left side of the field because we can't create holes on the right side. Defenses know this and he is still 7th in rushing. He isn't the gamebreaker AP or Chris Johnson is but he is still our best offensive weapon, Sorry mancrush cooley fans.


There is not a runningback in the league that would be successful behind this offensive line![/quote]

Stats aren't the whole story...he averages 75 yards per game.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 10:07 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Buster;611740]Put any RB behind this O-Line, with Zorn calling plays...and see if they can produce.


Portis just had the longest run of his career yesterday, he still has it. He's the best blocking RB in the NFL and can take more punishment than anyone...look how guys like Parker and Westbrook, even Tomlinson are always getting hurt. Portis plays through injuries and can still be successful if he gets any blocking whatsoever and there's not a monkey calling the same stretch running play in every crucial situation.[/quote]

I think the opposite is true...put any other RB behind this line with this coach and they get WAY more yards. Felix Jones, T. Choice, Bradshaw, J. Norwood, J. Stewart, D. Ward....any of them. He leaves yards on the field, case closed. And Im sick of hearing about how good of a blocker he is...he isn't getting paid what he is getting paid to just be a good blocker.

Monkeydad 10-19-2009 10:07 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=maroonandblack30;611742]Stats aren't the whole story...he averages 75 yards per game.[/quote]

Which is IMPRESSIVE behind our line with your avatar calling plays.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 10:09 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Buster;611749]Which is IMPRESSIVE behind our line with your avatar calling plays.[/quote]

Im just calling it like I see it.... I see tons of yards being left on the field by 26 when he falls over without being touched, runs into the back of blockers or just back pedals into the pile.

His line is bad, but the weren't that bad yesterday...there were plays to be made and he didn't make them.

freddyg12 10-19-2009 10:19 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=jamf;611738]He is 7th in the league in rushing!
We don't ever have a lead in the 4th quarter so we can't pound the ball and get him more yards and we can't sustain drives or convert 3rd downs yet he is still 7th in the league.

He's been running through the same gaps on the left side of the field because we can't create holes on the right side. Defenses know this and he is still 7th in rushing. He isn't the gamebreaker AP or Chris Johnson is but he is still our best offensive weapon, Sorry mancrush cooley fans.


There is not a runningback in the league that would be successful behind this offensive line![/quote]

If you want to rely on stats, keep in mind that we haven't had a bye week & many others have, so his #s are higher due to an extra game. He's also been getting 95% of the carries, whereas other teams often give a backup 10 carries or so.

He started to come to life in the TB game, but even then he fell down a no. of times too easily. I know this o line sucks, but even poor lines open holes when the play call is right & the defense is out of position. That was the case w/the 78 yarder. He didn't have to break any tackles or make any moves, just run through the hole. IMO, he's missed a no. of holes where he might've gotten another 2 yards or so. Good rb's will make something usually, even if it's just a couple of yards. He hasn't this year.

hail_2_da_skins 10-19-2009 10:27 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I've said it before and I repeat. Clinton Portis has Shaun Alexander disease. He runs untils he anticipates contact and then falls down or run out of bounds. The 78 yard run is a prime example. Practically every back in the league would have scored on that play. When the play first started, Portis did his normal move, running up the back of his blockers, not cutting to daylight. Unfortunately the defense provided no resistance, so he had to run up field. He had one defender to beat and a blocker in front. How come he can't set up the block and beat one defender or cut back and out run the defender? Portis runs like an old back...Shaun Alexander disease.

Monkeydad 10-19-2009 10:27 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=maroonandblack30;611748]I think the opposite is true...put any other RB behind this line with this coach and they get WAY more yards. Felix Jones, T. Choice, Bradshaw, J. Norwood, J. Stewart, D. Ward....any of them. He leaves yards on the field, case closed. And Im sick of hearing about how good of a blocker he is...he isn't getting paid what he is getting paid to just be a good blocker.[/quote]

His blocking saves our QB's head several times a game, so yes, it is important.

Explain "leaves yards on the field" and how another lesser-talented RB could have more success than Portis with this joke of an O-line. I'd love to heard it, Mr. Zorn avatar. :D

freddyg12 10-19-2009 10:36 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Buster;611763]His blocking saves our QB's head several times a game, so yes, it is important.

Explain "leaves yards on the field" and how another lesser-talented RB could have more success than Portis with this joke of an O-line. I'd love to heard it, Mr. Zorn avatar. :D[/quote]

I agree that he "leaves yards on the field" - there have been a no. of carries in which he's run into the back of a linemen, which is often not his fault cause those guys are getting pushed back, but how he responds is his fault. He has often responded by trying to bull ahead, rather than making a quick move to either side & forging ahead. I'm certainly not suggesting that he try & bounce outside, cause he just doesn't have the takeoff he once did. I just think he's not seeing cutback lanes & getting what is there.

Part of it may be his lack of practice/conditioning. Part of it has to be that he is old, beat up & lacks the quickness needed to be decisive the way a rb must be. At his best his play inspired the team, now his play more or less exemplifies the team.

redsk1 10-19-2009 10:38 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I think alot of backs could get more yards w/ our oline. There's been multiple occasions where CP can't make one guy miss or can't get around the corner and get's tackled. I'm not saying another RB could come in and average 5 yards a carry but i think alot could do better.

53Fan 10-19-2009 10:38 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=maroonandblack30;611752][B]Im just calling it like I see it.... I see tons of yards being left on the field by 26 when he falls over without being touched, runs into the back of blockers or just back pedals into the pile[/B].

His line is bad, but the weren't that bad yesterday...there were plays to be made and he didn't make them.[/quote]

Add that to his reluctance to practice, throw any and everyone under the bus...time to go Clinton.

Longtimefan 10-19-2009 10:39 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
Calling him a disgrace may be a bit of a stretch, he does have issues however, some fotball related and some not. I think some people are beginning to wonder if he's actually still worth the price or the time. BTW had he cut back inside Sellers block he would have scored. The fact he didn't is reflective of his lack of ability to change directions at full speed, a quality neccessary for a featured RB.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 10:43 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Buster;611763]His blocking saves our QB's head several times a game, so yes, it is important.

Explain "leaves yards on the field" and how another lesser-talented RB could have more success than Portis with this joke of an O-line. I'd love to heard it, Mr. Zorn avatar. :D[/quote]

there are holes/daylight that he doesn't hit or doesn't see thus doesn't get the yards that are available on those plays.

The 78 yard run is a perfect example....there were 9 yards "left on the field" on that play that he didn't get. Every other starting RB in the league, making as much money as 26 scores on that play... not even a question.

maroonandblack30 10-19-2009 10:45 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Longtimefan;611777]Calling him a disgrace may be a bit of a stretch, he does have issues however, some fotball related and some not. I think some people are beginning to wonder if he's actually still worth the price or the time. BTW had he cut back inside Sellers block he would have scored. [B]The fact he didn't is reflective of his lack of ability to change directions at full speed, a quality neccessary for a featured RB.[/B][/quote]

I agree, but also think he is so out of shape that he was just too tired to make anything happen at the end of that run....he was GASSED!!!!

hail_2_da_skins 10-19-2009 10:47 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
Clinton Portis should be part of the housecleaning that needs to go on in Washington. The Redskins should completely rebuild their offense. The only keeper in my book is Chris Cooley, maybe Santana Moss if the contract is right. Everyone else is expendable. Clean house on defense as well. Smoot, Rodgers, Griffin, and Daniels are at the top of the list of expendables. Zorn -> gone. Vinny -> gone.

Green1 10-19-2009 10:53 AM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
There was a play in the Chief's game where they threw a swing pass, and CP ran slower that Todd Yoder with no gain on the play.

jdot26 10-19-2009 03:31 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
Why is everybody hating on cp.. since the team isn't doing good.. everybody is blaming are star players.. all we need is a o line.. think about it we do the same left strech everytime.. we hardly run to the right so everybody defense just crashes left.. y'all got to give him a break.. he lost his to best blockers but nobody is taking that into concitaration.. man the line we got now is blow avg...at best.. cp tries to go up the holes the line opes for 0.1 seconds.. but they close so damn fast cause the line can't sustain blockes.. but now everybody wants to turn they back on are running back.. y'all cats are silly talking about clinton portis lost it and need to get rid of him.. we need him.. y'all crazy

Trample the Elderly 10-19-2009 03:33 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
To hell with CP too, that Prima Donna hack.

Monkeydad 10-19-2009 03:34 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=jdot26;612113]Why is everybody hating on cp.. since the team isn't doing good.. everybody is blaming are star players.. all we need is a o line.. think about it we do the same left strech everytime.. we hardly run to the right so everybody defense just crashes left.. y'all got to give him a break.. he lost his to best blockers but nobody is taking that into concitaration.. man the line we got now is blow avg...at best.. cp tries to go up the holes the line opes for 0.1 seconds.. but they close so damn fast cause the line can't sustain blockes.. but now everybody wants to turn they back on are running back.. y'all cats are silly talking about clinton portis lost it and need to get rid of him.. we need him.. y'all crazy[/quote]

It's the nature of a lot of Skins fans...always optimistic before the season, then every regular season game is met with lunatic ranting and raving, win or lose...and in cases of losses, total destruction of the team is the only way to improve.

Meks 10-19-2009 03:39 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
to the initial moron-and-black post....

mike sellers blew the block, and 4get CP... ur acting like a disgrace to this board.

sandtrapjack 10-19-2009 04:08 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
Anyone who thinks Portis is a leading contributor to the bad start to the season is, I feel, sadly mistaken.

When you compare what he did in the first 6 weeks of 2008 to this season, the only glaring difference is the total number of touches.

In 2008 in the first 6 weeks Portis averaged 4.7 ypc.
In 2009 in the first 6 weeks Protis averaged 4.2 ypc.

Not a big difference there, if a RB is averaging over 4 yards per carry, I say let him play.

No, the big difference in 2009 is that in 2008 at this point in the season, Portis had [B]30 more carries[/B] in 2008 after 6 weeks than he has in 2009. And last year at this point, everyone and thier grandmother already had Portis starting in the Pro Bowl. He had an awesome first half of 2008.

Now I know 2009 has been a less than desirable start, but, from what I see the Redskins have never been blown out, and they have never really been so far out of a game that they needed to abandon the run to play catch up, which in most cases is the 4th quarter anyway.

Keep feeding him the rock, and that will keep defenses honest and help the passing game out to boot.

Slingin Sammy 33 10-19-2009 04:37 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
[quote=Longtimefan;611777]Calling him a disgrace may be a bit of a stretch, he does have issues however, some fotball related and some not. I think some people are beginning to wonder if he's actually still worth the price or the time. BTW had he cut back inside Sellers block he would have scored. The fact he didn't is reflective of his [B]lack of ability to change directions at full speed, a quality neccessary for a featured RB[/B].[/quote]Good post. Above is the key point. Two plays yesterday showcased this. The swing pass where he couldn't lose the LB and was tackled for no gain and the pitch play to the outside where the KC safety closed and rather than beat him to the sideline for 4 or 5 yds, CP tried to cut back, knowing he doesn't have the explosiveness the once had.

CP is an old back in terms of carries. Right now he is simply a downfield runner, and good in pass-pro. The OL was average in run blocking yesterday, the holes were mostly there, aside from a couple break-downs. CP just lacks the second gear to get through the hole and explode into the seocnd level. We are not L or R run dominant, over the last 3-4 games the L/R balance has been there. For the Panthers and Chiefs we also have gotten away from running the Stretch on every run play.

Portis is certainly not worth $8-10M / season in a capped or uncapped year. He will be gone after this year.

BleedBurgundy 10-19-2009 04:50 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
i really, really hope we make it to the uncapped year. We have so much dead weight to cut. Traditionally, work stoppage/strike years have been very kind to the Skins. This one could as well, though in a different way...

SFREDSKIN 10-19-2009 04:58 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
One thing I would like to see is, Mason being used more than 1 or 2 carries a game. I want him to take a chunk of carries, people say he's like another Portis, Betts but I disagree. I say him a chance and let's see what he can do, I bet people will be surprised.

misterflak 10-19-2009 05:11 PM

Re: How many starting RBs are worse than Portis?
 
I would argue that Portis' talent is bordering replacement-level at this point (think Correll Buckhalter)--the difference is that Portis is making $10m/season from 2010-2014 while a player of his current talent ability will run you, say, $2m in an open market. Given that he still has a good bit of trade value, that would be the first thing on my to-do list for the 2010 offseason.


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