Best redskin trade
 

I was wondering what do you think was the best skins trade they have ever made.I all was liked the trade that got us Earnest Byner.I hope the Champ and Portis deal works out just as good or better

Off the top of my head. Getting Jim Lachey for Jay Schroeder was a pretty good deal

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Off the top of my head. Getting Jim Lachey for Jay Schroeder was a pretty good deal[/QUOTE]

That's my pick as well.

Yes, those were good trades. But hands down, the 2 best trades ever for the Redskins were:

1. Getting Sonny Jurgenson for Norman Snead - the absolute steal of the century.

2. Getting Bobby Mitchell for Ernie Davis. That trade was only great because of the horrible misfortune of Davis, who was diagnosed with leukemia and died before he ever got the opportunity to play in an NFL game. For that reason, it is tough to look at this as a great trade, but it turned out that way because of tragedy. Davis was a big bruiser who had broken Jim Brown's records at Syracuse, and the Browns were drooling at the thought of both of them in the same backfield. The story is, that the Redskins agreed to the trade, because Davis was slated to be the first black on the Redskins, and some thought he may have a tough time with the pressures that brought. Bobby Mitchell was ready and willling to go that route. The Skins converted Mitchell to flanker, where he provided us with many, many exciting moments.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "[I]The BEST Game In Town[/I]" since 1990

Getting the Saints whole draft and next year's first!

hell yea, getting rid of whatever that guys name was who didnt even play for us the year before in exchange for all the Saints pick, and essentially Champ, Lavar and Chris.

Actually, we didn't get all 3 of those guys for Ricky Williams. What we got for Ricky and a couple of our picks was LaVar, Champ, and several guys you never heard of again. I agree we came out ahead in the deal, but nothing overwhelming. We got Samuels in a deal where we gave up most of our draft picks that year to Chicago.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Champ and LaVar turned out to be in the top 5 of their position, whereas Ricky is teetering on the top 5 list. LT, McCallister, Portis, Green, Holmes, Lewis, Alexander, and Faulk all rank higher on my list. (This list is in no particular order)

Not exactly a trade, but the best thing that ever happened to the Redskins was the Panthers taking DL Sean Gilbert, and we getting two first round picks for franchising him.

Daseal, first, if you look at the total stats for the past 3 years or past 5 years, putting every one of those guys ahead of Ricky is REAL tough to support. Another point to think about - No team in their right mind is going to trade the #5 NFL RB for the #5 LB straight up. Same for the #5 DB. Denver did close to that, BUT they got a top 2 DB, a round 2 pick for a top 5 RB, AND they are still going to look silly for doing it by the end of this season. Like I said, we got the advantage in that Ricky Williams trade, but not overwhelming. Certainly not even in the same league with a similar trade the cowboys pulled off for Herschel Walker. Of course they made MUCH better use of their middle round picks they got from the Vikings in that trade than we did with the Saints middle round picks. Go look at the list sometime. Can you say "Lloyd Harrison" or "Nate Stinson"? (Just a couple examples...)

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

I feel all those backs are better because they do more with less carries. Ricky has more attempts than most every other back in the NFL which is why he get's his yards. Not trying to knock him, and we both agree it was a good deal for the skins. The only difference is I think it was quite a bit better.

Daseal, not to drag this out, but I think you may be missing a bit here in assessing the value of a back. Yes, most of those guys you listed have gained a fraction of 1 yard more per carry than Ricky Williams over the past 3 years. But Ricky HAS averaged 4.1 yards per carry over that time. He is not a "slasher" or breakaway back, he is a pounding, bruising back who gets better and better as the game goes on, and is extremely valuable to a team. You may be a little young to remember how much John Riggins meant to the Redskins, but he made it into the Hall of Fame with 3.7 yards per carry for his career, which is a little less than Ricky's lifetime average. Think about how much Stephen Davis meant to this team, especially in the 4th quarter. In 3 of his 4 years with the Redskins, he had less than 4.1 yards per carry. Ricky is the same TYPE of back as Riggins and Davis - he wears down a defense over the course of a game, making it more vulnerable in general, and can eat up valuable clock time when you have a 4th quarter lead. That is something that we lacked last year that cost more than one win. I am thrilled we got Portis, but would be just as happy to have gotten Ricky, or any of the guys you listed, except Faulk (seen his best days), Holmes (time for him to start dropping off), and Alexander (who I do not put in the same category as the rest - even though went to Alabama <Go Tide!!> LOL). Another plus for Ricky is that he is a "team" player, who will play through pain. A lot of guys today will not.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

P.S. I was just re-reading my post, and realized one more reason I may be so high on Ricky. I have been a Redskin fan since around 1950. My 3 favorite Redskins over all these years are Riggins, Jurgenson, and Taylor (probably in that order). I saw a LOT of plays the last few years where Williams was dragging would-be tacklers several yards farther down field. I guess his style just reminds me a lot of Riggins - dragging 1, 2, or 3 tacklers for another 2-3 yards.

Ricky fumbles a lot more that riggins did.

Also Ricky's team up until now had no other offensive threats other than himself enabling the defense to focus on the run yet he still has been able to be effective.

I wouldn't call Chris Chambers a non-threat, Sitting.

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of the big bruiser backs. This could be part of the reason why I'm not a huge Ricky fan. I liked Washington more than Riggins, and I was never a real Stephen Davis fan. I like the quick, slashing, gamebreaking backs. To each his own!

Hogskin - your post certainly makes a lot of sense, but I don't like RIcky's style. He's a tough SOB and he's a great team player, but I like the guy that can fly through a tiny hole and avoid guys. I also don't think priest will be falling off soon, and I really think Alexander is a great back. He tore it up for me in fantasy last year. He did better than Stephen Davis did; at least the way my league was setup.

Very good point, Sitting Bull. And to take it a step further, Ricky has NEVER had as good a run-blocking line in front of him as Holmes, Faulk, Portis, or Green had in ther best seasons. In fact the only time he had a "pretty good" line was his first season or two under Ditka. And the funny thig was, that even though Ditka bet his career on Ricky, he did not know how to best utilize his talents.

Mizzo, I don't know where you get your stats, but you have this one upside down. Ricky has had 34 fumbles in 1818 touches (1 for every 53.5 touches). The Diesel had 58 in 2871 touches (1 for every 49.5 touches). Riggo fumbled a little more. Neither has been know for their great hands LOL.

With some of the statements here, it is really beginning to seem that their are just some folks on this site that have a mindset against any appreciation of Ricky Williams. That is fine - everyone has guys they like and guys they don't like. But I thought about this, and wonder if maybe when the trade was made, some folks were hoping he would fail, so the Redskins' trade would look even better than it was (and it WAS good!!) Maybe some fans have just carried a mindset aginst him. I have probably seen 40-50% of his plays since he has been in the NFL (I'm a REAL sick fan - nothing but Sunday Ticket on Sunday afternoons). He is very impressive, and is certainly among the elite backs currently in the league.

By the way, on the subject of great RB's, we just had our convention in Atlantic City. I made a bet with one of my customers who was dis'ing Portis. I bet this guy $100 that Denver's top RB this season will NOT get 20% more rushing yards than Portis. I would like to have had a lot more of that one. With their OL coach moving to Atlanta, look for Denver's RB factory to look a lot less formidable this year. I would have made the bet WITHOUT the 20% pad LOL!!!

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal, I just saw your post after I posted my last one. Nice post. (Well - except for the Chambers comment - he needs to have a decent QB to become a serious threat...). But, the post explains a lot - we all do have our own style of football that we appreciate. I saw a Redskin game in Chicago MANY years ago, and just loved watching Gayle Sayers run all over the field (the Skins won, by the way). But for me, nothing was better than watching Riggo carry a guy a few yards down the field on his back while the Diesel horns were blowing in the background!!

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Chris Chambers is a beast, and I think that offense could be potent if they got a QB. I think AJ Feely will be an upgrade, but not the future of Miami. Chris Chambers is a fairly big boy, has a great vertical, and can stretch his DB deep. He's one of the most under appreciated receivers in the league, in my opinion.

Ricky is a good runner, no doubt I sure wouldn't want to meet him on the other side of the line. One thing about Ricky that get's to me is how shy he is. I've heard rumors that for like the first year in NO he wouldn't really talk to anyone. Not sure how true that is, but definitely an oddity.

Daseal, yes, that is close to true from what I have heard. He actually had a lot of trouble in that area throughout his NO stay. In Miami, they immediately got him into a program that helped him with his obvious phobia about being around people. From reports, it very quickly transformed him to be much more outgoing.

I agree with you 100% about Chambers. But without a proven QB, don't bet too heavily on him for your fantasy team yet. He will still be a good mid-round pickup. He could move way up the ladder with the right QB. I'm looking for T.O. and Chad Johnson to be at the top this year.

TO? Really? I know he's the go-to guy, but I don't think McNabb will be able to put it where TO needs it constantly, not to mention he's adapting to a new system.

Chad Johnson also comes with a new (practically rookie) QB. Both great receivers, just wondering whatcha know that might put those two on top of say the Randy Moss's, etc.

It'll be interesting to see whos the best receiver next year. I dont think it will be TO, McNabb is a great QB but his accuracy is no where near Garcias. Randy Moss put on 15 pounds to be able to seperate himself more from defeners, and be able to push them around more. You never know how a players game will change when they put on bulk. My guess is Harrison is going to still be a baller with Manning throwing to him, expecially since its contract year. Coles will also put up huge numbers next year.

I know that hindsight is 20/20 but considering how much Ditka gave up for Williams the fact that neither he nor Williams is still in N.O. gives the edge to the Skins in that trade, in my opinion. Williams was supposed to be the next great thing in the Big Easy but after just a couple of seasons he was gone.

That being said, I think the Saints are probably better off now. One of the draft picks they got from trading Williams to the Dolphins was Charles Grant, an up and coming DE and personally I think Deuce is a better back than RW. His 4.7 yards per carry was better than Ricky's...though not as good as Portis' 5.5 ypc.

Daseal I like the slasher type of back as well. While I respect the bruising, bashing style of Jerome Bettis give me the poetry in cleats that was Barry Sanders. To me there was nothing sweeter than watching Barry on the gridiron. Well one thing, Riggo on 4th and 1 in Pasadena.

Hogskin, what's your fantasy take on Justin McCareins this upcoming season now that he's with the Jets? He was a nice little sleeper for me last season

we should run a league for this message board come the fall. Somethign to think about.

Daseal, those are my picks - just remember to look and see at the end of the season. Remember, on the average, at skill positions, 7 of the top 10 players from one year are not in the top 10 the following year. Just because a guy had his career year one season does not mean he will the next.

You ask about TO? A lot goes into fantasy selections. Eagles will get scored on a lot more this year (CB's gone). They will be passing a lot late in the games. T.O. is PUMPED UP, and definitely has the ability to get open. They will be throwing a lot in the 2nd half of games. I happen to like McNabb, in SPITE of what Rush thinks of him. He is a good deep passer - just never had a guy to get open down there.

BTW, we use a point system that includes catches and yardage, as well as TD points based on DISTANCE of the TD - TO will catch many long TD's.

The rookie will be able to get the ball in the vicinity of Chad - he will catch it over almost any DB in the league.

Good luck in your fantasy leagues this year!!

Smoot, just saw your question. I really like McCareins this year. With another excellent WR to compliment him and a quality QB, this could be his season. And I have to agree, I loved watching Sanders. But his teams did not win, and he lost yardage on a lot of plays. All said, I am REALLY looking forward to Portis this season... maybe a new FAV Skin for me????

Canes - sounds like a good idea. Let me know later in the summer, and I will be glad to run a league for Warpath guys free. Or if you want to put up a few bucks, I will return it all as prizes. Let me know in late July. Only thing, I would want to use our scoring model. You could make a few mods to it if you wanted, but I would not want to stray too far if I will be competing - it is a great scoring system.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]we should run a league for this message board come the fall. Somethign to think about.[/QUOTE]

That's a good idea. Wonder if we can work it through Matty. Also, who's gonna track stats points etc.?

hmmmmmmmmm

Ricky is a bruiser, but he showed in '02 that he can break the big runs too. Witness the Dolphins-Redskins game from last year for proof, we had the game won until Ricky got loose in the 4th quarter.

Hogskins and 'Canes- Great Idea!

[QUOTE=memphisskin]Ricky is a bruiser, but he showed in '02 that he can break the big runs too. Witness the Dolphins-Redskins game from last year for proof, we had the game won until Ricky got loose in the 4th quarter.[/QUOTE]

True. That and Feidler coming in for Griese

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]we should run a league for this message board come the fall. Somethign to think about.[/QUOTE]
We ran one on yahoo! sports last year. I think we had a 16-team league last year? I can't remember. Anyway, that was fun, but I'm game for a different setup this year, if Hogskin can hook us up. I usually wind up playing on different fantasy sites every year anyway. At some point, though, I would like to settle into one league that I can stick with from year-to-year. It would be nice if we could get that kind of continuity going here at [i]The Warpath[/i].