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Sammy Baugh Fan 07-14-2004 06:19 PM

50 to 48 = 2 missing
 
In the Senate's vote today to take up a National issue of "should there be a vote about Gay marriages" of the 100 Senators 98 felt their job was so important to this Country that they showed up and put their vote where there Mouth is.

Only two did not think our Nation was important enough to do their jobs and vote.

Wanna guess who skipped out on their job? Yep, you guessed it Kerry and Edwards.

~shakes head.

Kerry has missed close to 2/3 of all voting this session.

You want to give a more important job to a guy that only shows up 1/3 of the time? Ha!

Not me.

Kerry and Hollywood Actors have more in common then he to regular middle class people and their values.

You'll pry my cold dead hand off my Bible before I allow a word created and defined by GOD in my Bible as 1 Man to 1 Woman to be changed. Call it what you want and give people whatever rights but don't change a definition set by God. Under who's authority does this government elected officials have to change a word defined over 4000 years ago and recognized as a world standard ever since?

That's MY opinion.

peace
mike
<><

Portis 07-15-2004 12:46 AM

[QUOTE=offiss]The fact that a clown like Kerry could even be considered for president, just show's how low we have sunk as a nation. :eek:[/QUOTE]


That's exactly the case I will make against Bush. How low can one go then Bush?

Redskins8588 07-15-2004 01:39 AM

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan]In the Senate's vote today to take up a National issue of "should there be a vote about Gay marriages" of the 100 Senators 98 felt their job was so important to this Country that they showed up and put their vote where there Mouth is.

Only two did not think our Nation was important enough to do their jobs and vote.

Wanna guess who skipped out on their job? Yep, you guessed it Kerry and Edwards.

~shakes head.

Kerry has missed close to 2/3 of all voting this session.

You want to give a more important job to a guy that only shows up 1/3 of the time? Ha!

Not me.

Kerry and Hollywood Actors have more in common then he to regular middle class people and their values.

You'll pry my cold dead hand off my Bible before I allow a word created and defined by GOD in my Bible as 1 Man to 1 Woman to be changed. Call it what you want and give people whatever rights but don't change a definition set by God. Under who's authority does this government elected officials have to change a word defined over 4000 years ago and recognized as a world standard ever since?

That's MY opinion.

peace
mike
<><[/QUOTE]

You argue that our goverment should not change a 4000 year old definition, yet I am betting that you will also say that our Freedoms as Americans should not be infringed.

On July 4, 1776, our for-fathers of this great nation all agreed that as Americans we have certain rights that our Creator has endowed us with they are Life, Liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!!

Under who's authority do we have to end this PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS? If 1 man wants to marry another man or 1 woman wants to marry another woman, who are we to step in front of there pursuit of happiness?

I think that your argument would hold more water if the times of the day were where everyone still got married in churches and not so much by the JP, but lets face it times have changed.

SmootSmack 07-15-2004 02:29 AM

Without taking any side, let me play devil's advocate and toss out this question. What has Kerry said or done that makes it clear that we would be better off with him in office?

Because I hear a lot of "Anybody But Bush", but I don't often hear why "anybody" would be the definitive better choice

Daseal 07-15-2004 07:26 AM

1: Believe it or not Kerry and Edwards are a little busy right now. Secondly you act as if it's rare for senators to be absent from voting. They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.

Secondly, the church gave up the whole idea of marriage when you have to get a license through the government to be recognized. This opened it up for the government to interpret and they have to be fair to all people. Gay marriage will not hurt anything except the far right's ego.

SmootSmack: He said it's time to get our troops out of Iraq, and hell, he may not have an exact plan yet, but it's better than asking for millions of dollars. I'm sick of turning on the news and hearing about more 20 year old's dieing.

BrudLee 07-15-2004 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=Daseal]1: Believe it or not Kerry and Edwards are a little busy right now. Secondly you act as if it's rare for senators to be absent from voting. They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.[/QUOTE]

There are a number of forums that specialize in such discussions, and though I have no intention of quashing this debate here, I hope you all remember that this is a Redskins fan forum first.

There are many people who, out of ignorance or fear, want to ban gay marriage. There are many more who feel that such an institution would diminish marriage and society. For anyone to say that opponents of gay marriage are homophobes, would be like saying that everyone voting for Bush hates civil rights, or everyone voting for Kerry hates America, or everyone against abortion hates women, or everyone for abortion hates babies, or (shudder) everyone who respects Bill Parcells hates the Redskins. All of those statements oversimplify the debate, and diminish both parties to it.

Daseal, I'm not singling you out - people on both sides of this thorny issue make the same mistake. I just hope we can keep things civil here.

That Guy 07-15-2004 07:52 AM

i agree with that smoot, its turning out like a hillary election, for or against her, regardless of who else is running.

btw, the original writings of the bible and the king james version most people use today are very different. old james threw out quite a bit of material that he personally didnt agree with. also in the same book mentioning that gay = bad, it states that marrying a divorced woman is a sin, yet that's very common today.

didn't the bible also state that putting interest on loans is a big no-no... and the entire world economy is based on annuities and interest.

societal values change, when the bible was written, populations were smaller and things such as modern large scale economies weren't quite in place yet. Also, multiple writers and many many years to alter/exagerate/edit means that it has been changed a lot already, so its not like you're reading the first edition.

My opinion is more libertarian, in that it doesn't bother me, and i really don't think its a big deal... i'm always against forcing my opinions upon others, and wary of people who attempt to do so...

That Guy 07-15-2004 07:58 AM

kerry and edwards probably missed this one on purpose though, cause it is hot button, and rule #1 of running for office is don't give people a reason to hate you... gay marriage is not the focal point of their campaign (not sure what is though ;)) but getting mired in this mess is unlikely to help them get votes...

on the other hand, maybe kerry's just not done waffling on it yet :D (ducks)

cpayne5 07-15-2004 09:14 AM

[QUOTE=Daseal]They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. [/QUOTE]

I think that's the point he was trying to make.

[QUOTE=Daseal]
Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.[/QUOTE]

It used to be that the gays 'just wanted to be left alone' - and that's all they wanted. Society gave that to them. Now it's not good enough and they're asking for marital rights. Where does the line get drawn? Who's to say that bigomy is wrong, or incest, or beastiality, or ... ?

My beef is that a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Is it at gay marriage? I'd venture to say that >3/4 of America would say so.

SmootSmack 07-15-2004 09:49 AM

Daseal, I should have been more clear than "what did he say", I should have asked how has Kerry said he'll be the better choice? I mean anyone can say we need to remove the troops. But how will he effectively do that?....Besides I thought he said he would add troops now that we're there anyway

For the Redskins angle: If Kerry wins the election I'm picking former Redskins coach George Allen's son, George Allen II (or is it Junior?) as a darkhorse GOP candidate in 2008. You heard it here first!!!....

cpayne5 07-15-2004 09:57 AM

Yeah, I think George Allen would be a great candidate. He's just biding his time, I think.

That Guy 07-15-2004 10:06 AM

i helped his campaign for senate (as a grunt worker) as a req for my civics class in HS... he's a nice guy, but i would never touch campaign work for anyone again, its definately not my thing.

and daseal, you remind me of a story about how all the animals on a farm are equal, except the pigs, which are more equal than anyone else...

slippery slope arguements don't always hold up that well, and i don't agree with that statement that gay == beastiality, or that granting gay marriage would in any way assume that bestiality will follow.

cpayne5 07-15-2004 10:38 AM

I didn't say that gay == beastiality. I was saying that in the name of rights, people will continually and gradually request more and more 'freedoms' that fly in the face of what has traditionally been determined uncouth. I understand that in certain situations, a slippery slope argument does not hold up well, but when talking about the progression of US culture and society, it more often than not will hold up.

(You must be a programmer - you used '==' instead of just '=' :D)


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