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Crazyhorse1 06-08-2007 03:11 PM

A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
Latest stats show too many people confused by the language of science, often in regard to evolution. It seems people don't know the difference between a Law and a Theory.

Most incorrectly believe that a Theory, when proved, becomes a Law. In other words, people have a tendency to think that a Theory is just a hypothesis. Actually, hypotheses, when proved, become either Theories or Laws.

Here's the skinny: In science, a Theory and a Law are equal in weight as regards the probability of being true.

A Law is created when something is proven by the scientific method to be true.

A Theory is created when something explains by the scientific method how something comes or came to be true

The same degree of proof is involved in each. For instance, science regards evolution as true as the notion that water boils at a certain temperature under certain conditions.

A Law is a fact, a Theory is a process that is fact.

When a Creationist argues that evolution is only a Theory, he shows ignorance of what a Theory is. A Theory, by definition, satisfies every condition of fact known to man, just as does a Law (in relation to the Scientific method) . If that were not so, it would no longer be a Theory, just as a Law would not be considered a Law if it did not satisify all conditions of fact.

It is also well to note that both Laws and Theories some time fall when new discoveries are made. The true glory of science, is that, ultimately there are no certainties, and there is always a need to keep exploring. There are Laws that have fallen still called Laws in books, which causes confusion, but it shouldn't. Once a Law or Theory is established, it is often referred to as a Law or a Theory as an item of historical record, even though it's no longer considered an actual Law or Theory.

Such a change of meaning has not occured with the Theory of Evolution. Not only is there not one scrap of scienfic evidence that points away from it, there is also a highly unlikely falling of scientific dominoes in store if it ever does fall.

It would mean that basic laws and theories about virtually every discipline of science are wrong: physics, math, astronomy, biology, geology, logic, etc., which would mean we have made no progress at all (which may be true, though possibly regrettable.) What's worse, the fall of evolution would say absolutely nothing about whether Creationism was right or wrong.

We would know next to nothing about our physical world and would know we knew next to nothing. With all of our tools to explore reality trashed, there would be no science to count on, including Creationism, which claims to be a science, but isn't.

What the heck, I guess.

12thMan 06-08-2007 03:17 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
So does this have anything to do with Q3?

BigSKINBauer 06-08-2007 03:22 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[quote=12thMan;316643]So does this have anything to do with Q3?[/quote]
Nothing and everything has to do with Q3

Crazyhorse1 06-09-2007 09:51 AM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[quote=12thMan;316643]So does this have anything to do with Q3?[/quote]

It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.

Beemnseven 06-09-2007 10:24 AM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
Yep, creation nutjobs always say Evolution is "just a theory" -- in everyday non-scientific jargon, people think that means there really is no proof.

Some would say it's weakness, but actually it's a strength: Science is always testing itself, and questioning itself -- Something that religion [I]never[/I] does.

SmootSmack 06-09-2007 11:38 AM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316689]It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.[/QUOTE]

Ahh I see. So really you just wanted to start another anti-Bush thread.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 06-09-2007 05:49 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316689]It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.[/QUOTE]

Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world [I]combined[/I]). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.

skinsfan_nn 06-09-2007 06:13 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;316741]Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world [I]combined[/I]). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.[/quote]


Well put SGG. People have it so good in this country and don't even realize it, or so many just take it for granted.

Crazyhorse1 06-09-2007 06:58 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;316741]Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world [I]combined[/I]). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.[/quote]

I believe that the world today is seriously threatened by religious fundamentalism, including our own. We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists. We've undergone a death of reason and given way to primative fears and hatreds.
We are now torturing people, committing war crimes, limiting American freedoms, flaunting religious and racial hated, and justifying violations of a Constitution that once gave light and hope to the world.
We are not a good country. We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and dumber than dirt. Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen. This war would not have happened without the aid of neocons, big money, and the religious right working hand in glove. May they all be defanged, the sooner the better.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 06-09-2007 08:11 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316745]We are not a good country.[/QUOTE]

Then please explain why this country still attracts more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. I do applaud you, however, for your candor. Most people who are very critical of our government are reluctant to admit that they do not think that this is a great country. I strongly disagree with you and can name dozens of other countries that have worse human rights records, limit freedoms to a MUCH greater extent than our country, etc. But, at least you're honest.

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316745]We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists.[/QUOTE]

You seem to imply that 911 was a rational response to American foreign policy and yet imply that our response to 911 was irrational. That strikes me as curious, to say the least.

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316745]We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and [I]dumber than dirt[/I].[/QUOTE]

As long as liberals keep bashing Americans like that, they will never be respected by the people. I am a liberal, but I do not believe in the "you all are dumb", paternalism that seems to be a constant theme in modern, liberal America.

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316745]Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen.[/QUOTE]

I agree that we need to adjust our foreign policy and engage more of our enemies in diplomacy. I am also disgusted by the attacks on science in the name of religion. But, we should also sharpen our sticks for guys like Bin Laden.

djnemo65 06-09-2007 09:54 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;316741]Crazyhorse,But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? .[/QUOTE]

It's not just American Liberals it's the rest of the developed world too.

FRPLG 06-09-2007 10:01 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;316745]I believe that the world today is seriously threatened by religious fundamentalism, including our own. We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists. We've undergone a death of reason and given way to primative fears and hatreds.
We are now torturing people, committing war crimes, limiting American freedoms, flaunting religious and racial hated, and justifying violations of a Constitution that once gave light and hope to the world.
We are not a good country. We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and dumber than dirt. Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen. This war would not have happened without the aid of neocons, big money, and the religious right working hand in glove. May they all be defanged, the sooner the better.[/QUOTE]
You, your kind and what you stand for are the only thing wrong with this country. You're an embarassment and the crazziness couched in some sort of irrational logic act hurts this country

12thMan 06-09-2007 11:29 PM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
For someone, seemingly, so intelligent you are incredibly narrow minded and short sighted. But I have a feeling you like to engage in this type of discussion; One that engenders strife and division, not harmony and unity.

Hmmm....is it possible that you yourself are guilty of the same extreme, self-righteous behavior that you accuse our government of?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 06-10-2007 10:09 AM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=djnemo65;316754]It's not just American Liberals it's the rest of the developed world too.[/QUOTE]

So, the rest of the world hates us for our arrogance and mocks us for thinking we can tell others what type of government to set up, and then tells us who we should and should not elect as our President and whether our politics are "bad"?

A map of the earth........$19.99
A world globe...............$89.99
A trip around the world..$9,500.39
Incredibly hypocritical and ironic statements from people around the world.....priceless.

djnemo65 06-10-2007 10:35 AM

Re: A Misconception that should be rooted out
 
[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;316794]So, the rest of the world hates us for our arrogance and mocks us for thinking we can tell others what type of government to set up, and then tells us who we should and should not elect as our President and whether our politics are "bad"?

A map of the earth........$19.99
A world globe...............$89.99
A trip around the world..$9,500.39
Incredibly hypocritical and ironic statements from people around the world.....priceless.[/QUOTE]

I'm just saying that amongst the world's richest countries we are pretty much alone in our religiosity, and that people find that comical. The rest of the world doesn't hate us. They love many things about America; however, they also laugh at our backwoods religious fervor, our obesity, and our penchant for firearms.

You can pick your country, with a few choice exceptions religion has been abandoned as something pre-modern. Here where I live 75 percent of the country is atheist, and those who aren't tend to be older. I have never once met a religious young person, and I meet lots and lots of young people. Now you can argue about whether or not this is a good thing, whether America is god's country or not, whether or not the rest of the world is going to hell, but what you can't argue with is the fact that we are increasingly the only religious rich country left, Israel and maybe Ireland notwithstanding.


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