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SmootSmack 07-24-2007 01:19 AM

Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
(Gotta get these non-football threads out of the way). I thought maybe instead of another political thread that harps on the past or that is designed simply to push one’s beliefs, maybe (just maybe) we could have an actual thread that intelligently discusses a topic relevant to the immediate (and long term) future.

With that in mind, the topic is Iraq. “When is it not?,” you ask. But this time, let’s not talk about who said what back in 2002. Let’s instead focus on each of the candidate’s plans for Iraq and who you think has the best plan moving forward. I've included some bullet points of the top candidate's plan along with links to more. Hopefully, this will lead to some good discussion. And we can all learn a little something.

(These are in no particular order)

[B]Barack Obama[/B]
-Goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008 -- a date consistent with the bipartisan Iraq Study Group's expectations.
-The plan allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain in Iraq as basic force protection, to engage in counter-terrorism and to continue the training of Iraqi security forces.
- United States needs to move beyond Iraq and “refocus our attention on the broader Middle East.” Reverse the troop surge and redeploy U.S. troops to Afghanistan and other locations in phases. He favors more funds for U.S. military equipment like night-vision goggles and reinforced Humvees.
[url=http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/]BarackObama.com | Plan to End the Iraq War[/url]

[B]Joe Biden[/B]
-Maintain a unified Iraq by federalizing it and giving Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis breathing room in their own regions.
-The central government would be responsible for common interests, like border security and the distribution of oil revenues. The plan would bind the Sunnis - who have no oil -- by guaranteeing them a proportionate share of oil revenues.
-Call on the U.S. military to withdraw most U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2007, with a residual force to keep Iraqis and their neighbors honest.
- It would increase economic aid but tie it to the protection of minority rights and the creation of a jobs program and seek funding from the oil-rich Gulf Arab states.
[url=http://www.joebiden.com/issues/?id=0009]Joe Biden for President | Issues[/url]

[B]Hillary Clinton[/B]
-Proposed, along with Senator Robert Byrd, legislation to end authority for the war in Iraq. The legislation will propose October 11, 2007 -- the five year anniversary of the original resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq -- as the expiration date for that resolution.
-The President would be required to come to Congress to seek new authority.
-Cap on troop levels to January 1, 2007 levels.
- Opposes the establishment of permanent military bases in Iraq,
[url=http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/]HillaryClinton.com - Issues - Ending the War in Iraq[/url]

[B]John Edwards[/B]
-Cap funding for the troops in Iraq at 100,000 troops to stop the surge and implement an immediate drawdown of 40-50,000 combat troops. Any troops beyond that level should be redeployed immediately.
-Prohibit funding to deploy any new troops to Iraq that do not meet real readiness standards and that have not been properly trained and equipped, so American tax dollars are used to train and equip our troops, instead of escalating the war.
-Require a complete withdrawal of combat troops in Iraq in 12 to 18 months without leaving behind any permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq.
[url=http://johnedwards.com/issues/iraq/]John Edwards for President-John Edwards' Plan To End The War In Iraq[/url]

[B]Bill Richardson[/B]
-Congress should immediately assert its constitutional authority and pass a resolution de-authorizing the war under Article I of the US Constitution and the War Powers Act.
-There should be no residual US forces left in Iraq. Most Iraqis, and most others in the region, believe that we are there for their oil, and this perception is exploited by Al Qaeda, other insurgents, and anti-American Shia groups.
-Redeploy some of our troops to Afghanistan to stop the resurgence of the Taliban. While all American troops in Iraq must be removed, we need to maintain a military presence in the region, in countries like Kuwait where they are welcome. We must always have the capacity to use air power, special forces and other means to strike Al Qaeda anywhere. We do not need American troops in Iraq to perform this essential task.
[url=http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/issues/iraq]Bill Richardson for President | Issues | Iraq[/url]

[B]Dennis Kucinich[/B]
-Complete withdrawal. Upon pulling out, Kucinich calls for an “international security and peacekeeping force to move in,” led by the United Nations.
-Turn all U.S. contracting business in Iraq over to the Iraqi government and call on the international community for more reconstruction aid.
-United States should fund a national reconciliation conference under the auspices of the United Nations.
[url=http://kucinich.us/]Redskins Warpath[/url]

[B]Mike Gravel[/B]
-Immediate and orderly withdrawal of all U.S. troops that will have them home within 60 days.
-Aggressive diplomacy to bring an end to the civil war that currently consumes Iraq.
-U.S. corporate withdrawal from Iraq and hand over reconstruction contracts to Iraqi businesses which will empower Iraqi nationals to reconstruct their own country.
[url=http://www.gravel2008.us/issues#war_in_iraq]The Issues | Gravel 2008[/url]

[B]Chris Dodd[/B]
-Redeployment of U.S. troops.
-May 2007 amendment that would implement a deadline for troop withdrawal within ten months and cut off funding by mid-2008.
[url=http://www.chrisdodd.com/issues/foreign_affairs]Chris Dodd for President | Chris Dodd for President[/url]

[B]John McCain[/B]
-One of the most outspoken proponents of Bush’s surge strategy, even arguing that the escalation does not go far enough.
-Supported the president’s efforts to increase the size of the U.S. standing military by 92,000 soldiers and Marines.
-Cautions that regional talks with Iran and Syria may not prove effective. “Our interests in Iraq diverge significantly from those of Damascus and Tehran, and this is unlikely to change under the current regimes,” he says.
-February 2007, coauthored resolution calling for Iraqi government to meet eleven benchmarks on issues of security, economic performance, and governance.
[url=http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm]John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President[/url]

[B]Duncan Hunter[/B]
-Staunch supporter of war
-Supports troop surge
[url=http://www.gohunter08.com/index.asp]The Official Site of Duncan Hunter for US President in 2008[/url]

[B]Sam Brownback[/B]
-Maintains that “the region and the world are safer now that Saddam Hussein has been removed from power.”
-Does not support the troop surge. Instead, he has called for a strong diplomatic effort in the region
-Supports a “three-state, one-country solution” in Iraq.
[url=http://www.brownback.com/s/Home/tabid/127/Default.aspx]Brownback for President[/url]

[B]Tom Tancredo[/B]
-Opposes the troop surge and calls for disengagement to “let regional powers and Iraqi factions cooperate to forge a new balance of power” by November 2007.

[url=http://www.teamtancredo.com/tancredo_issues_index.asp]Tancredo for President - On The Issues[/url]
[B]Mike Huckabee[/B]
-Any timetable for troop withdrawal is “a mistake”
-Supports the surge effort
-Favors inviting Iraq’s neighbors to “become financially and militarily committed to stabilizing Iraq now rather than financially and militarily committed to widening the war later.”
[url=http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=2]Mike Huckabee for President - Issues[/url]

[B]Tommy Thompson[/B]
-The Iraqi parliament should vote on whether they want us there. If they do, we have greater world standing to be there. If not, that sends a strong message to the United States on what it should do next in Iraq.
-The United States should work with Iraqis to support elections of leaders in each of the nation's 18 provinces to operate under a national government. A model much like states in the United States, this will give Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds their own pieces of Iraq.
-Encourage the Iraqi government to give every Iraqi a stake in the nation’s rich oil reserves. Oil revenues should be divided in thirds among the national government, the provincial governments and individual Iraq citizens. This is a proven model currently used in Alaska, where the citizens of that state receive annual royalties from oil production there.

[B]Rudy Giuliani[/B]
-Believes setting an artificial timetable for withdrawal from Iraq now would be a terrible mistake, because it would only embolden our enemies.
-Iraq is only one front in the larger war on terror, and failure there would lead to a broader and bloodier regional conflict in the near future. Building an accountable Iraq will assist in reducing the threat of terrorism.
-Supports troop surge plan, but says the plan needs some quantitative means by which to measure progress.
[url=http://www.joinrudy2008.com/index.php?section=2]JoinRudy2008 - Home[/url]

[B]Mitt Romney[/B]
-Supported efforts to include Iraq’s neighbors in security negotiations. He has pressed Arab governments in the region to do more to “support Iraq’s nascent government.”
-Favors the president’s surge strategy and opposes plans to pull out of Iraq in the near future or to carve up the country into three regions
[url=http://www.mittromney.com/]Mitt Romney for President 2008[/url]

[B]Ron Paul[/B]
-Cosponsored the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007, which, if passed, would have stopped the troop surge in Iraq and begun redeployment of U.S. troops by May 1, 2007. That act was never voted on.
[url=http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/]Ron Paul 2008 › Issues[/url]

KLHJ2 07-24-2007 01:30 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
WHA HOOO! I like the Tommy Thompson guy. Reminds me of the Skins.They always look good on paper, but will they actually pan out.

70Chip 07-24-2007 01:32 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
President Bush has the right plan. You can lock this thread now.

SmootSmack 07-24-2007 01:34 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=70Chip;332207]President Bush has the right plan. You can lock this thread now.[/QUOTE]

Ok, well thanks for the input. But this is geared more toward the 2008 Presidential candidates. So I guess you'd then say McCain or Giuliani?

70Chip 07-24-2007 01:53 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[quote=SmootSmack;332209]Ok, well thanks for the input. But this is geared more toward the 2008 Presidential candidates. So I guess you'd then say McCain or Giuliani?[/quote]

Once Bush leaves ofice, Iraq will no longer be in the news much regardless of who follows him or what their plan is. Iraq will have served it's purpose at that point. Iraq is not really a problem to be solved as much as it is an issue to be exploited for the likes of Baraq Hussein Obama and Mrs. Clinton and one of them is sure to be elected. Iraq will be about as relevant as the moon landing by then.

jsarno 07-24-2007 02:14 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
Well, Obama has good intentions, but I doubt his would work, so I'll go with Guiliani, with Obama coming in 2nd.

very good research SS...I wasn't going to comment on it at first, but all the work you put into it meant I had to respect it with a comment.

SmootSmack 07-24-2007 02:24 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=jsarno;332222]Well, Obama has good intentions, but I doubt his would work, so I'll go with Guiliani, with Obama coming in 2nd.

very good research SS...I wasn't going to comment on it at first, but all the work you put into it meant I had to respect it with a comment.[/QUOTE]

Well thanks. I could've just posted the links but who wants to keep clicking back and forth among links?

Hopefully this gives certain people (we all know who they are, of course) a better idea of how to start a thread, especially a political thread, with links and a relevant topic of discussion for everyone (except 70Chip I suppose).

I suppose as the months leading up to the election go on, we can cover other issues too.

jsarno 07-24-2007 02:30 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=SmootSmack;332232]Well thanks. I could've just posted the links but who wants to keep clicking back and forth among links?

Hopefully this gives certain people (we all know who they are, of course) a better idea of how to start a thread, especially a political thread, with links and a relevant topic of discussion for everyone (except 70Chip I suppose).

I suppose as the months leading up to the election go on, we can cover other issues too.[/QUOTE]

We're still pretty far away though.
Like Richardson will be out quickly...if he's not I have serious questions about the future of our country.


I just don't think we can all of sudden back out, and I think that's what a lot of democrats think can happen. Like Obama says, there needs to be some that stay and see it out.

Not to try to redirect this thread, cause it deserves all it's attention...but what do all the candidates think about alternative fuels, in particular corn? The person that makes that a priority will have the best shot at my vote.

SmootSmack 07-24-2007 02:39 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=jsarno;332234]We're still pretty far away though.
Like Richardson will be out quickly...if he's not I have serious questions about the future of our country.


I just don't think we can all of sudden back out, and I think that's what a lot of democrats think can happen. Like Obama says, there needs to be some that stay and see it out.

Not to try to redirect this thread, cause it deserves all it's attention...but what do all the candidates think about alternative fuels, in particular corn? The person that makes that a priority will have the best shot at my vote.[/QUOTE]

Start a new thread on alternative fuels. It could be a good topic of discussion. I'm going to bed soon so I don't have time to look stuff up right now. But as an overall topic, it could be good to discuss. Particularly, the impact that the demand for corn will have on its price and how that will affect the cost of other products that depend on corn.

But anyway, let's make that another thread. Go for it

As for Iraq, I think Biden's plan is intriguing. But his economic aid plans seems to go against my free-trade beliefs

jsarno 07-24-2007 02:42 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=SmootSmack;332241]Start a new thread on alternative fuels. It could be a good topic of discussion. I'm going to bed soon so I don't have time to look stuff up right now. But as an overall topic, it could be good to discuss. Particularly, the impact that the demand for corn will have on its price and how that will affect the cost of other products that depend on corn.

But anyway, let's make that another thread. Go for it[/quote]

I agree. Maybe tomorrow...we'll see...we're still too far away IMO from serious talks about it.

[quote]As for Iraq, I think Biden's plan is intriguing. But his economic aid plans seems to go against my free-trade beliefs[/QUOTE]

I can see that.

saden1 07-24-2007 04:30 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
Anyone that wants all our troops has the right idea. You have to understand the people you're dealing with and I can't say that the majority of Americans and the current administration understand the people it's dealing with.

FRPLG 07-24-2007 09:41 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
I am not a proponent of setting any type of withdrawl date. Although I do want us out of there as soon as possible I also want us to leave it in the best condition possible. Setting a date is just too heavy handed and leaves no flexibility to react to what is actually happeneing. It also, quite obviously, is somewhat dumb to tell those your fighting when you plan to leave.

But as I said I want us out of there. I think a conglomeration of the ideas above may work.

First Thompson's up/down vote from the Iraqi parliament is a good idea fro the reasons he stated.

Biden's idea on the shaping of the government is smart but could be very difficult to execute. Worth a try though.

Obama's thoughts on troop levels are consistent with mine. I tend to not agree with Clinton. I think we should establish several permanent bases in Iraq. I think. I have some reservations on that but again if we execute it right it would be a boon going forward. But we do need to maintain a presense there.

Our main goals right now need to be getting Iraq's forces prepared to take the reigns and on going overboard in helping the civilians. We need to start engendering good will there. Do every single thing we can to make life better. That's where the up/down vote helps. If they vote no then we leave. Plain and simple. But with the caveat that we'll be back if it sprials back into a ottocracy.

FRPLG 07-24-2007 09:45 AM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
[QUOTE=70Chip;332212]Once Bush leaves ofice, Iraq will no longer be in the news much regardless of who follows him or what their plan is. Iraq will have served it's purpose at that point. Iraq is not really a problem to be solved as much as it is an issue to be exploited for the likes of Baraq Hussein Obama and Mrs. Clinton and one of them is sure to be elected. Iraq will be about as relevant as the moon landing by then.[/QUOTE]

I would say Obama seems pretty level headed on this. He has attacked the other Den candidates for voting for the war because he has the luxury of not having to have made that vote. He hasn't been beligerent about it though and it clearly is just a poltiical tool at this point. When you look at his plans he seems to realize that just because he doesn't agree with the war doesn't mean he can advocate simply washing our hands of it.

12thMan 07-24-2007 12:11 PM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
I guess by now most of you know which candidate I'm supporting, but before I get to Senator Obama, I think it's important to point out that the Dems are pretty much united on the fact that we need to get out of Iraq within a year or so, and the differences that exist between them are in the details and can be worked out.

That being said, I think Obama and Hillary may disagree on how to approach the middle east in general and, perhaps, on foreign policy for that matter. The latter more than anything is why I favor Obama's plan over the other candidates.

Senator Obama has promised, within the first year of his administration, to reach out to countries such as Iran, Syra, North Korea, China and a few others that he mentioned during last night's debate, bring them to the table and discuss issues that are causing international turmoil and dividing us as nations. He actually gave kudos to both Ronald Reagan and JFK for being pro-active in this regard. I don't think any plan can be sustainable or achieveable, for that matter, until Syria and Iran are involved.

Senator Clinton, on the other hand, bristled at the notion of sitting down with foreign heads so early in her administration for reasons she cited as political "propoganda." That's certainly her prerogative, but I think the problem is much bigger and complex than simply getting our troops out of Iraq.

BigSKINBauer 07-24-2007 12:18 PM

Re: Iraq: Who Has the Right Plan?
 
Well i am for obama too but in that question clinton came off as way more experienced than obama did. She said that she would have to have someone look into the meetings so they would be on her terms basically.


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