Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

According to Bob Costas, Bonds admitted to the grand jury that he took steroids...albeit unknowingly. (yeah right) Bonds said he thought it was flaxseed oil.
Here is a link to a conversation with Costas and Patrick Arnold about the "clear".
[url=http://www.nbc5.com/sports/13752791/detail.html]Chemist: It's 'Clear' Bonds Used Steroids - Sports News Story - WMAQ | Chicago[/url]
How is it that these guys from BALCO are already serving time for "distribution", yet they didn't distribute to anyone since no one admitted to it other than Bonds doing it "unknowingly". (well, and Sheffield, but Bonds is the one going after the record right now...I think both Sheffield and Bonds should be taking out of baseball indefinitely "pending an investigation", they both admitted to taking it.)
Arnold also says that taking "clear" will get you in the zone, when Costas asked about a person's ability to hit a baseball, Arnold says it gets you "in the zone". So yes, it can help you hit a baseball.
All this time we were lead to believe that it just makes you stronger, it can't make you hit a baseball...well that is flat out untrue.

I am still amazed at how many people are embracing this disgrace of a human being.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

I was wondering when you were going to start a Bonds thread...[URL=http://www.redskinswarpath.com/other-sports/17947-disgusted-with-bonds.html?]again[/url]

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333165]I was wondering when you were going to start a Bonds thread...[URL=http://www.redskinswarpath.com/other-sports/17947-disgusted-with-bonds.html?]again[/url][/QUOTE]

Well, I was going to let it go, but after watching that interview on ESPN NEWS, I am outraged that people are embracing him.
I think baseball is going to get a permanant black eye with this.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333165]I was wondering when you were going to start a Bonds thread...[URL=http://www.redskinswarpath.com/other-sports/17947-disgusted-with-bonds.html?]again[/url][/QUOTE]

On a side note...the more I focus on Bonds and Vick, the less I focus on Stewart.
In all honesty, Stewart is a little boy scout compared to those two.

I guess being into statistics like I am, and growing up in Fenway Park with all that history, I am an advocate for the protection of baseball. It's history and records need to be protected. Bonds is spitting in the face of everyone that played before him, and everyone that ever cared about the game.
Hank Aaron should smack him in the face with a white glove after he breaks the record.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Jsarno, are you suggesting that people shouldn't embrace Bonds' chase or that baseball should actually ban him from playing? I would agree with the former, however, the latter would be pretty impossible to do, at least right now.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;333191]Jsarno, are you suggesting that people shouldn't embrace Bonds' chase or that baseball should actually ban him from playing? I would agree with the former, however, the latter would be pretty impossible to do, at least right now.[/QUOTE]

Both actually.
Both seem to be impossible actually.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;333192]Both actually.
Both seem to be impossible actually.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I saw that show but I don't really think they represent the opinion of your average American. It seems like a pretty solid majority of people are against Bonds at this point.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Don't worry, A-Rod will shatter it before he's all done. I'm no Yankees fan, but he's putting up insane numbers.

Pujols has a shot as well.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;333197]Don't worry, A-Rod will shatter it before he's all done. I'm no Yankees fan, but he's putting up insane numbers.

Pujols has a shot as well.[/quote]

I was just going to say the same thing about A-Rod. He's cruising past 500 with no sign of slowing down anytime soon.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

I think Griffey Jr. could have had it had he stayed healthy.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;333203]I think Griffey Jr. could have had it had he stayed healthy.[/quote]

Yeah no doubt. He's still going to end up with some impressive numbers but you just have to wonder what could have been.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;333180]Well, I was going to let it go, but after watching that interview on ESPN NEWS, I am outraged that people are embracing him.
I think baseball is going to get a permanant black eye with this.[/QUOTE]

I'm a huge baseball fan and I can't wait for him to break it. Baseball has embraced cheating throughout its history and now all of a sudden they want to act like it's an issue? Whenever they take down greaseballers/spitballers/ball scuffers out of the hall, I'll agree.

When you consider that a lot of pitchers have been caught using steroids, it makes it seem like Bonds is par for the course as far as baseball is concerned. Baseball deserves exactly what they're getting. I, personally, have no problem with Barry or anything he's done.

Wake me up when he tests positive.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

MLB is a joke. Cheaters win.
I went 1 game and I'll never go to another if they embrace bonds

Besides it's 3 minutes of action crammed into 4 hours - George Carlin

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Can't stand bonds. And don't support MLB AT ALL, could care less!

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;333217]I'm a huge baseball fan and I can't wait for him to break it. Baseball has embraced cheating throughout its history and now all of a sudden they want to act like it's an issue? Whenever they take down greaseballers/spitballers/ball scuffers out of the hall, I'll agree.

When you consider that a lot of pitchers have been caught using steroids, it makes it seem like Bonds is par for the course as far as baseball is concerned. Baseball deserves exactly what they're getting. I, personally, have no problem with Barry or anything he's done.

Wake me up when he tests positive.[/QUOTE]

Preach on my brother! 100% agree

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Lacrosse will take over baseball in 15 years anyway... who cares. :cheeky-sm

But seriously, I don't happen to think anyone exposed of cheating / doping deserves supreme recognition.

You don't win the gold in olympics, you lose the tour de france, and you certainly aren't allowed to play in professional sports. If there is no positive test, then that's that. End of discussion....

As far as all the allegations go, DMX probably says it best; "Talk is cheap mother F%#$^#".

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[quote=jdlea;333217]I'm a huge baseball fan and I can't wait for him to break it. Baseball has embraced cheating throughout its history and now all of a sudden they want to act like it's an issue? Whenever they take down greaseballers/spitballers/ball scuffers out of the hall, I'll agree.

When you consider that a lot of pitchers have been caught using steroids, it makes it seem like Bonds is par for the course as far as baseball is concerned. Baseball deserves exactly what they're getting. I, personally, have no problem with Barry or anything he's done.

Wake me up when he tests positive.[/quote]

Good point.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333234]Preach on my brother! 100% agree[/QUOTE]

So it doesn't concern you that he actually admitted it? The fact that he says he thought it was flaxseed oil is beleivable for you?

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;333239]
You don't win the gold in olympics, you lose the tour de france, and you certainly aren't allowed to play in professional sports. If there is no positive test, then that's that. End of discussion....
[/QUOTE]

See, this is what I don't get. You say you need a positive test....but he ADMITTED to taking it, so admission is better than a test. The problem here is him saying he thought he was taking flaxseed oil, and not steroids...and of course, people buying it hook line and sinker.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;333293]So it doesn't concern you that he actually admitted it? The fact that he says he thought it was flaxseed oil is beleivable for you?[/QUOTE]

My understanding is in a leaked grand jury testimony he said he unknowingly took the cream or clear or something like that. But he's never been tested for it, as best I can recall.

What concerns me is the double standard. As has been mentioned, cheaters have been allowed for years in MLB. See Gaylord Perry, who's in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud. The Sosa's, McGwire's, and Bonds' of the world saw an opening when baseball turned the other way when performance enhancing drugs came into play. They needed fans back in the seats and "chicks dig the long ball." Then when the public outcry came, baseball suddenly went Renault on everyone. ("Shocked! Shocked! to find out there is gambling going on here" only to be handed his gambling winnings while making this pronouncement.)

MLB wants to act like Bonds has ruined the integrity of the sport, but they themselves ruined it long ago. The concern should be about the dangers of these drugs (see Chris Benoit, or the girl who died of an infection after applying too much cream), not whether there should be an asterisk next to Bonds' name. Will there be one next to all the pitchers he didn't get a homerun against who were on steroids themselves.

Look, I don't know Bonds but most say he's not that great a person. And that certainly hurts him at this time. I think even before the last decade he's one of the greatest players ever and he's a Hall of Famer if his career ended 10 years ago. Would he be my first choice to hold the record? No, but that doesn't mean I think everything should be done to keep him from it

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

There's not only the double standard within the sport of baseball, but how about in sports in general. Nobody really cares about steroids in football... seriously did anyone blink an eye about Merriman getting in trouble last year? He still made the Pro Bowl, and outside of a few guys like Jason Taylor nobody really cared, especially amongst the fans.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

in the mid to late 90's. anyone who is someone in baseball, was juicing. so you want bonds out, while the rest of the cheaters keep playing? anyone here think Roger Clemens use steroids at some point in his career?

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333311]My understanding is in a leaked grand jury testimony he said he unknowingly took the cream or clear or something like that. But he's never been tested for it, as best I can recall.

What concerns me is the double standard. As has been mentioned, cheaters have been allowed for years in MLB. See Gaylord Perry, who's in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud. The Sosa's, McGwire's, and Bonds' of the world saw an opening when baseball turned the other way when performance enhancing drugs came into play. They needed fans back in the seats and "chicks dig the long ball." Then when the public outcry came, baseball suddenly went Renault on everyone. ("Shocked! Shocked! to find out there is gambling going on here" only to be handed his gambling winnings while making this pronouncement.)

MLB wants to act like Bonds has ruined the integrity of the sport, but they themselves ruined it long ago. The concern should be about the dangers of these drugs (see Chris Benoit, or the girl who died of an infection after applying too much cream), not whether there should be an asterisk next to Bonds' name. Will there be one next to all the pitchers he didn't get a homerun against who were on steroids themselves.[/quote]

While I agree with all that, you are still ignoring the fact that he is going after a hallowed record.
It did end up hurting Sosa as he was out of baseball until Texas decided to take a chance on him this year.
McGwire admitted to taking Andro, which at the time was indeed legal. Of course, he probably lied too, but he at least admitted it and now his entire career has been tarnished.
I'm sorry, but comparing a spitball to someone who doubled his old output by using steroids is weak at best.

[quote]Look, I don't know Bonds but most say he's not that great a person. And that certainly hurts him at this time. I think even before the last decade he's one of the greatest players ever and he's a Hall of Famer if his career ended 10 years ago. Would he be my first choice to hold the record? No, but that doesn't mean I think everything should be done to keep him from it[/QUOTE]

I don't even care what kind of person he is, I care about the fact that he cheated to get where he is. I care about the fact that Canseco, Sosa, and Palmiero took it too. So if you don't chastize Bonds and think his assault on the record books should be ceased, then you must agree with Canseco and Palmiero, and maybe even Ken Caminiti getting into the hall. (and we all know they will never make it)

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

We didn't agree on this last time, and we won't this time.

I think the problem is with MLB and cheating is cheating. You think it's Bonds and deliberately breaking a rule that's in the rule books is not as bad as allegedly testing positive that baseball wasn't even concerned with for years anyway.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;333316]There's not only the double standard within the sport of baseball, but how about in sports in general. Nobody really cares about steroids in football... seriously did anyone blink an eye about Merriman getting in trouble last year? He still made the Pro Bowl, and outside of a few guys like Jason Taylor nobody really cared, especially amongst the fans.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree with you here. There was a lot of talk and upset people when he was voted as an all pro. People just have more faith that it was indeed an accident with him, and he publicly came out and apologized, something Bonds has no intentions of doing. That tends to soften people...also, Merriman didn't get the all time sack record, or the all time single season sack record, or any record for that matter.

I will absolutely agree that I think it's wrong that Baseball ignored it. They ignored it cause they almost killed baseball with all that strike crap, then when McGwire got the single season record, that rebounded the entire sport. I'm not saying it's right, but they saw a sizable increase in fan base and revenue. Hard to point out flaws when that happens. Again, 100% wrong...you shouldn't use band aids to close a gaping wounds...they tried it with interleague play as well. If we know it's wrong, shouldn't it be stopped?

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333338]We didn't agree on this last time, and we won't this time.

I think the problem is with MLB and cheating is cheating. You think it's Bonds and deliberately breaking a rule that's in the rule books is not as bad as allegedly testing positive that baseball wasn't even concerned with for years anyway.[/QUOTE]

No, no, no...I whole heartedly think baseball is wrong. BIG TIME. Why is it Bonds is being embraced when we all know he cheated? It's time for MLB to do what is right. If you can't use something like Bonds breaking the record as incentive to start being tough, then when will you?
So are you saying to ignore this cheating cause they've cheated all this time anyway? It's wrong, so might as well stay wrong forever?

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

I'm saying that they didn't test for it (steroids) for years. They've just started testing the past couple of years and Bonds has never tested positive in that time. Never mind what has been allegedly said by him or by others, he hasn't tested positive.

Bonds is one piece to a much, much bigger puzzle. And now because a hallowed record is on the line, now baseball should step in and do what they should have a long time ago? No, I don't think so. They made their bed let them lie in it...until A-Rod breaks the record

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333342]I'm saying that they didn't test for it (steroids) for years. They've just started testing the past couple of years and Bonds has never tested positive in that time. [b]Never mind what has been allegedly said by him[/b] or by others, he hasn't tested positive.[/quote]

Why are you so quick to dismiss his own admission?
Regardless if they ever tested for it, it was still illegal. Just cause a cop isn't around to catch you speeding, doesn't make speeding right.

[quote]Bonds is one piece to a much, much bigger puzzle. And now because a hallowed record is on the line, now baseball should step in and do what they should have a long time ago? No, I don't think so. They made their bed let them lie in it...[/quote]

While I agree with you here, I don't think it's their game, it's ours...as in the fans. Sure they messed it up, so it's up to us to do our part and not want to be a part of it.

[quote]until A-Rod breaks the record[/QUOTE]

While I would love to see the day, all this steroid talk will just cheapen it, and who knows, someone might say A-Rod juiced.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

This debate is going to go nowhere in my opinion, so I'm bowing out

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;333318]in the mid to late 90's. anyone who is someone in baseball, was juicing. so you want bonds out, while the rest of the cheaters keep playing? anyone here think Roger Clemens use steroids at some point in his career?[/QUOTE]

BTW- Yes, I have no doubt he did it.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Baseball is so 1956....

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

Who is embracing Bonds??

I think most people think he's a prick and the record will loose some luster with him holding it.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[quote=jsarno;333339]I have to disagree with you here. There was a lot of talk and upset people when he was voted as an all pro. People just have more faith that it was indeed an accident with him, and he publicly came out and apologized, something Bonds has no intentions of doing. That tends to soften people...also, Merriman didn't get the all time sack record, or the all time single season sack record, or any record for that matter.[/quote]

It blew over pretty damn quick. Other than Jason Taylor I really don't recall anyone making a big stink over it.

Steroids are much more accepted when it comes to football vs. baseball.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

I support Bonds, I hope he runs that record sky high so that no one will even come close to it...

As the late great Eddie Guerrero used to say, "CHEAT TO WIN."

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;333371]It blew over pretty damn quick. Other than Jason Taylor I really don't recall anyone making a big stink over it.

Steroids are much more accepted when it comes to football vs. baseball.[/quote]

I believe that it is because the steroid policies were not as strict in baseball for a very long time. Either that or use was getting overlooked. In the NFL steroid use has been closely observed. The federal government had to get involved in MLB's business, while Paul Tagliabue was able to keep the fed out of NFL business for the most part. This was due to the fact that the NFL had always handled illegal use of steroids with swift and severe punishment as opposed to MLB.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21734-2005Apr28.html]NFL's Steroid Policy Gets Kudos on Capitol Hill (washingtonpost.com)[/url]

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;333371]It blew over pretty damn quick. Other than Jason Taylor I really don't recall anyone making a big stink over it.

Steroids are much more accepted when it comes to football vs. baseball.[/QUOTE]

It's not so much about steroid use as it is about records. Baseball has long been about numbers. Everyone knows 56 game hit streak, 755 homeruns, 511 wins, 4,1256 hits, etc.

You may know that Emmitt Smith is the all-time leading rusher, or Jerry Rice has the most receptions all time but off the top of your head do you know the numbers? That's what separates baseball. People make a big deal not because of the steroids so much as numbers that mean something to them suddenly are irrelevant

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;333369]Who is embracing Bonds??

I think most people think he's a prick and the record will loose some luster with him holding it.[/QUOTE]

The media, but most importantly, all those nuts in SF that are giving him standing O's every time he steps to the plate.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;333379]It's not so much about steroid use as it is about records. Baseball has long been about numbers. Everyone knows 56 game hit streak, 755 homeruns, 511 wins, 4,1256 hits, etc.

You may know that Emmitt Smith is the all-time leading rusher, or Jerry Rice has the most receptions all time but off the top of your head do you know the numbers? That's what separates baseball. People make a big deal not because of the steroids so much as numbers that mean something to them suddenly are irrelevant[/QUOTE]

Beleive it or not, you said that perfectly.

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;333395]The media, but most importantly, all those nuts in SF that are giving him standing O's every time he steps to the plate.[/QUOTE]
And me...

Re: Why is Bonds still allowed to get after the record?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;333396]Beleive it or not, you said that perfectly.[/QUOTE]

Um...thanks I guess