Missing Champ Bailey...
 

You know, after reading the Post article on Champ in Denver, I can't help but feel a little anxious about how our pass defense will be this year. What kind of dropoff will we see with Springs? Rationally, even the most confident among us here at the Warpath must admit that Springs is at the very least, a significant downgrade. The Post has poll about which former Redskin would you like to see back, no questions asked. Bailey is by far the vote leader.

But reading that article, I thought to myself, "a 14.75 million dollar bonus?" What is so [I]'below market value' [/I] about that? Was that offer not the highest in the league for a cornerback? Now, I realize that there were stipulations and performance based options that reduced the guaranteed amount -- then I thought, why didn't we just offer as much as he wanted?

I just don't know. Every now and then, I feel like later on during the season, if the worst thing imaginable happens and either Smoot or Springs goes down to injury, we and the organization will be really kicking ourselves for not sucking it up to do everything possible to re-sign the unquestioned best cornerback in the league.

There's a small, sick feeling in the pit of my stomach about Champ Bailey no longer in a Redskin uniform. Can someone out there ease my feelings? I'd really appreciate it.

i can only make you feel worse. because our defensive line will give QBs even more time to place their passes this year. passes even Champ couldnt defend. its a serious concern.

Bailey is a great corner, no doubts about it. But I think he's being a little disingenuous when he says that he never wanted to go anywhere else. I think the fact that his agent never came up with a counter proposal showed that they wanted to test the free agent market. So in that regard they forced the Redskins hands. But I can't fault him for going out and getting as much bonus money as he can, that's his right. Guess that's the first guy that Snyder got outbidded for, although I'm positive that if Snyder really wanted to keep Bailey he would be here.

Smoot and Springs aren't Bailey, but Springs is a top-tier corner when he's healthy and he's healthy right now. There is a drop off, but Springs has had some success and really thrived before Holmgren came aboard and changed the tone of that defense. Cornerback is still a position of strength for us, and the back seven is actually better this year than they were a year ago. Sean Taylor is a serious upgrade at free safety, especially considering Bowen was basically playing out of position lately. Add in our starter last year is now a backup and you get instant depth at safety, another plus.

There's no doubt that I'm going to miss Bailey and I think he made some good points about the Front Office. In particular the statement he made about not being one of "their" guys. There's no doubt in my mind that our FO has placed a higher level of importance on acquiring free agents rather than keeping and cultivating the guys we've drafted. Some mistakes have been made, hopefully with Gibbs in charge fewer guys will be allowed to slip through the cracks, not just guys like Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis, but Kenard Lang, Shawn Barber, Derrick Smith, N.D. Kalu and other solid but not quite spectacular performers. I really think Gibbs is moving in that direction, establishing an identity for us again, giving these guys a reason to be proud of the team and really wanting to belong.

I never cease to be amazed at the amount of nervousness and negativism I see on this site. C'mon, guys!!! Springs is not a STIFF. We have DRAMATICALLY improved our LB corps. and safety position. The DL is marginally better, but still needs one good pass rusher. And that is not even touching on the HUGELY most important improvement. Defensive coaching can make much more difference to the performance of defense than ANY other factor. You guys should realize that if ANY NFL fans should. Look back at the dramatic ups and downs of our defense as Rhodes and Schott came and went. We now have a D/C that is as good as Rhodes. Stop worrying and join the excitement!! Get on the bandwagon early!!

Oh, yeah. And remember. Bailey did not want to be here. Gibbs doesn't want those kind of guys, and we don't need them.

I'm with Hogskins, I don't see that the loss of one player outweights the terrific gains made just by having Williams as D Co-ordinator. No more players out of position, no more half assed effort like last season.

The Redskins D will shock everyone for the first 4 games, then they will be feared.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]I never cease to be amazed at the amount of nervousness and negativism I see on this site. C'mon, guys!!! Springs is not a STIFF. We have DRAMATICALLY improved our LB corps. and safety position. The DL is marginally better, but still needs one good pass rusher. And that is not even touching on the HUGELY most important improvement. Defensive coaching can make much more difference to the performance of defense than ANY other factor. You guys should realize that if ANY NFL fans should. Look back at the dramatic ups and downs of our defense as Rhodes and Schott came and went. We now have a D/C that is as good as Rhodes. Stop worrying and join the excitement!! Get on the bandwagon early!!

Oh, yeah. And remember. Bailey did not want to be here. Gibbs doesn't want those kind of guys, and we don't need them.[/QUOTE]

my thoughts exactly. Springs, if healthy, is a pretty damn good cb and with the other cbs we signed(Brown and Harris), we have a vastly deeper cb group than we did last year. And the biggest improvement on the defense overall is the coaches brought in. Last year the coaches obviously didn't know what they were doing and let the players run free, that ain't gonna happen this year and properly using corner backs and safeties is one of Williams strongest coaching abilities. Plus it's not like Bailey has had a very good year the last year or so.
Oh yeah and then their's some guy named taylor or something that we drafted ;).
So to those who worry over this, eat some tums and just relax cuz if we had kept Bailey, who didn't want to be here, we wouldn't have Portis for the next 5-10 years.

I think in the end Bailey is a little overrated, because while he is recognized as the best corner in the game, his passion has always been questionable at best. He is not a warrior, and I am glad considering the circumstances how the whole situation turned out, with us getting Portis

Ok sure we lost Bailey. But he wanted out. And in return we got one of the best HB in the NFL. I miss Champ but I love Portis! And lets just say Springs is no scrub.

Champ Bailey is overrated, plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, he's a great corner, but I don't even think he's the best in the league. Weren't you guys watching the games last year that he got burned for TD's?? A "shut down" corner he definitely is NOT. He get's no INT's, and he can't return punts without fumbling. But the best point made so far is HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE. If he did, he would've taken our offer. I think Shawn Springs will have a great year, and we did add depth with Walt Harris and Ralph Brown. And we still have Rashaud Bauman, who is an excellent nickel back who could start if need be. I, for one, am ecstatic we traded Champ for Portis. The addition of Portis gives us one of the top 3 backs in the league, and probably the best at his age. His improvement to the offense will far outweigh any slight loss we experience from losing Champ, and I believe we'll come out better on this trade than the Broncos....

Raleighskinsfan, let me know if I'm understanding you right. Are you saying that because Champ gets no INTs that he's not a "shut-down" corner? Because I would say that he gets no INTs because he's such a good "shut-down" corner that the ball is hardly thrown his way.

Look, I think players like Champ are hard to find. And while he tends to take a rather lacksadaisical approach I think he's very competitive. Remember he played most of last season with a broken wrist, and he didn't even miss a single practice.

That being said though, I think we need to look at the bigger picture. And Springs, Portis is better than say Champ and Trung. And like Hogskins points out, let's not underestimate Gregg Williams. He'll make good things happen with this defense.

to anwser the first question, if I remember correctly we did offer Bailey a bigger signing bonus then what he got in Denver. The fact of the matter was that he didnt want to be here, and for that reason im not going to miss him.

As far as Springs, Springs has as much, if not more physical ability then any corner in the league, he was an elite corner. But hes had teh injury bug. If he stays healthy this year then he'll fill Champs shoes just fine.

Why are all of you so high on champ anyways, a lot of you talk about how our dline will give the qb more time and thats where we need champ. Last year champ gave up a lot of plays, far more then he had in previous years. If we dotn get pressure on the qb then it doesnt matter whos at corner. but Williams is oging ot blitz more iwth linebackers to help the dline.

champ bailey is overrated?? watch what T.O. does to Springs by week 4 he will be our nickel back he is garbage.

how we let seattle get bobby taylor and we got springs instead of leaving them with springs and getting bobby taylor is one mistake giobbs has made so far. but getting portis for champ was a good trade for us.

Bobby Taylor is a bum. He should have never made it to the probowl last year, and hes in hes 30's to. He had a solid year but hes no elite player. The thing with springs is he brings more to the table, if he isnt injured then he could be as good as bailey. IF he doesnt get injured.

we got smoot so we will be alright

Taylor is a bum? come on now. Well why did holmgrem get rid of him and get Taylor? they upgraded that position is the conventional wisdom on that subject

[QUOTE=Hogskin]I never cease to be amazed at the amount of nervousness and negativism I see on this site. C'mon, guys!!! Springs is not a STIFF. We have DRAMATICALLY improved our LB corps. and safety position. The DL is marginally better, but still needs one good pass rusher. And that is not even touching on the HUGELY most important improvement. Defensive coaching can make much more difference to the performance of defense than ANY other factor. You guys should realize that if ANY NFL fans should. Look back at the dramatic ups and downs of our defense as Rhodes and Schott came and went. We now have a D/C that is as good as Rhodes. Stop worrying and join the excitement!! Get on the bandwagon early!!

Oh, yeah. And remember. Bailey did not want to be here. Gibbs doesn't want those kind of guys, and we don't need them.[/QUOTE]


I couldn't have said it better myself. I always liked Champ, but it's not like he never got burned or was caught out of position. He was fed up with the revolving door at D-Cordinator and decided he was no longer a Redskin. I think I CB core has improved. I realize that Springs is a slight downgrade but I think alot of you nay-sayers will be pleasantly surprized by how good Shawn Springs really is. I can also remember Joe Gibbs & the Redskins winning a Super Bowl with a seconday that didn't scare anyone... Jeris White, (rookie) Vernon Dean, Tony Peters, Mark Murphy. We are looking at starting the season with Shawn Springs, Fred Smoot, Matt Bowen, Sean Taylor. Lets not forget Buffalo was the #2 defense in the league last year, and I think we have more talent.

HAIL TO JOE GIBBS AND THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:

I'm a Champ Bailey fan and will forever be. Except of course when he is playing my beloved Skins.

champ did not want to be here true thats why i am glad we have portis, but to say springs is eleite is another matter. we beat seattle last year. i dont remember springs making a differnce. every game the skins played champ was on the frontline

vernon dean lead the nfl in picks one year i liked him.

smoot will pick up the slack Springs will be a wash. we walt harris we will we survive.

I think Springs will see a revival in his career now that he's playing back in his hometown.

Truth is most teams' playoff contentions hinge on the fact that one or two franchise caliber players stay in the lineup throughout the season. Injuries are part of the game. And the best teams have quality depth and great coaches. Where do we stand? As far as Bobby Taylor is concerned, his contract is so front loaded we probably wouldn't have been able to afford him. Winfield on the other hand...

Champ Bailey did not wanna be here. You could tell throughout the whole season last year. As much as I miss him, we're better off without him. We have more cap room, a great rb, and two quality corners. Champ wanted outrageous money and we couldn't give it to him.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the league Charles Woodson is demanding to be the highest paid CB in the league (and by extension of all time) and Chris McCalister is going to have to settle for the franchise tag of 8 Million dollars. It seems impossible for a team to tie up this much cap room for a player who doesn't stop the run or pressure the QB. All cbs get beat. I think that we may be ahead of the curve by trying to field established veterans at reasonable rates.

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingCamp04/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1848424[/url]

"You've got a guy in Portis who's done a lot of great things on the field, but you don't know if he's going to last as long as I am" Bailey said. "It's hard to find corners or at least one great one. When you've got a good corner, you've got a good defense. I hope not to dissapoint him"

Uhhhh....last time I checked our defense sucked last year even with Champ.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingCamp04/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1848424"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingCamp04/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1848424[/url]

"You've got a guy in Portis who's done a lot of great things on the field, but you don't know if he's going to last as long as I am" Bailey said. "It's hard to find corners or at least one great one. When you've got a good corner, you've got a good defense. I hope not to dissapoint him"

Uhhhh....last time I checked our defense sucked last year even with Champ.[/QUOTE]
LOL! Exactly! I guess he doesn't count last year in that statement, because the coaching was so bad. Maybe he should have said, "when you've got a good corner [i]and a good defensive coordinator, [/i]you've got a good defense."

I'm not overly worried about Champ's departure. Springs isn't in his class, but he's a solid replacement, and unlike Champ, Springs is overjoyed to be here at home in Washington. Springs also brings a positive energy and vocal component as a leader that Champ definitely lacked.

Last year at this time, I was one of the biggest supporters for re-signing Champ to a long-term deal. But after I watched Champ in training camp last year, during his interviews, and just his overall body language when he discussed his contract situation, it was apparent that he was tired of Washington and was ready to move on. There was no urgency on his part to get a deal done, and he pretty much seemed to not care one bit about being a Redskin anymore. The more apparent that became as the year wore on, the less concerned I was if the Skins were unable to sign him.

The bottom line is, Champ didn't want to be a Redskin anymore, and that's all I need to know to be at peace with his departure. Too many other positive things are happening with this team for me to worry about one guy who isn't here anymore. I hope he enjoys the view from afar as Gibbs leads the Redskins back to respectability, and ultimately, victory.

:httr:

[QUOTE=joecrisp]LOL! Exactly! I guess he doesn't count last year in that statement, because the coaching was so bad. Maybe he should have said, "when you've got a good corner [i]and a good defensive coordinator, [/i]you've got a good defense."

I'm not overly worried about Champ's departure. Springs isn't in his class, but he's a solid replacement, and unlike Champ, Springs is overjoyed to be here at home in Washington. Springs also brings a positive energy and vocal component as a leader that Champ definitely lacked.

Last year at this time, I was one of the biggest supporters for re-signing Champ to a long-term deal. But after I watched Champ in training camp last year, during his interviews, and just his overall body language when he discussed his contract situation, it was apparent that he was tired of Washington and was ready to move on. There was no urgency on his part to get a deal done, and he pretty much seemed to not care one bit about being a Redskin anymore. The more apparent that became as the year wore on, the less concerned I was if the Skins were unable to sign him.

The bottom line is, Champ didn't want to be a Redskin anymore, and that's all I need to know to be at peace with his departure. Too many other positive things are happening with this team for me to worry about one guy who isn't here anymore. I hope he enjoys the view from afar as Gibbs leads the Redskins back to respectability, and ultimately, victory.

:httr:[/QUOTE]


I couldn't agree more Crisp. Well put.

Champ who?

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan]champ did not want to be here true thats why i am glad we have portis, but to say springs is eleite is another matter. we beat seattle last year. i dont remember springs making a differnce. every game the skins played champ was on the frontline[/QUOTE]

Hey, I liked Champ when he wanted to be a Redskin, but I also like Springs. You don't "dis" a guy based on not remembering him make a difference in one game. If that is the case, every fan in NY must see Champ as at the very bottom of the CB pile. Toomer has beaten him regularly for TD's for two seasons!

BTW, JoeCrisp, great post. Nice to hear insight form a hands-on guy.

Our defensee WILL be fine. As bad a the coaching was last year we fought hard and could of beat both Super Bowl teams instead on only Denver. This year with better coaching the D will be in the top 10. Our d-line is not that bad. LBs are better. Safties are better with Talyor back there. So our CBs might of suffered a little the rest will help out and put less pressure on the CBs. I also am sure that we have some sleepers that will have a suprise season. Just you wait and see. And about Champ, sorry you are going to miss great things. No I am not sorry but I am sure he will be.

Champ didn't play up to his reputation last year. He clearly looked at times like he didn't want to be here. I can't blame him considering the coaching staff, but I'm glad we didn't pay him what he wanted, and I'm thrilled to have Portis. I think Smoot and Springs will hold up fine.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]I think Springs will see a revival in his career now that he's playing back in his hometown.[/QUOTE]


well, it is his home town, but he did grow up here as a cowboys fan becuase of his dad... we'll have to make sure he got rid of those feelings.

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan]Taylor is a bum? come on now. Well why did holmgrem get rid of him and get Taylor? they upgraded that position is the conventional wisdom on that subject[/QUOTE]

the conventional wisdom is that he wanted to get rid of an injury prone player for one that isnt. Taylor is a solid corner, he does his job. But hes not a top ten corner by any means. He had one great year last year, for some reason made the probowl, and then he went to get his last big paycheck at the end of his career.

I'm glad about the trade, and what we got in return for Champ. Given a choice between the two players, I take Portis in a heartbeat.

I've also been saying for several years now that Champ is overated. He's a GREAT corner, no doubt, but I don't even know if I'd label him a legitimate "shutdown" corner. If given the choice, based soley on talent, I would rather take C Mac from Baltimore. Don't get me wrong -- I'd rather have Champ than not, but I cannot understand why the sports media is all over this dudes jock. Consider how telling it is that last year when facing his former coach, who drafted him no less, Norv repeatedly went AFTER Champ time after time with the game on the line -- and succeeded seemingly at will. I could point out more examples, but will stop there for now. Of course, our crappy d-line has to share some of the blame for Champs performance last season. But bottomline, he didn't want to be here, so our FO did a hell of a job getting a player like Portis out of the whole situation.

"Thanks for the memories Champ, good luck in Denver. Now get your ass outta here..."

I was just reading on ESPN.com a quote from Champ Bailey about the trade. " You've got a guy in Portis who has done alot of great things on the feild, but you dont know if hes gonna last as long as I am. Its hard to find Corners, or at least a great one. When You've got a good corner, you've got a good defense." - Broncos DB Champ Bailey.

EASSSY Champ, I dont have a problem with that quote until he says , when you've got a good cornder, you've got a good defense. Please. I think all this corner-back stuff is overratted. I will take 1500 yards from Portis over having Bailey here any day of the week. His presence is not going to change our defense as a whole, not one bit. Having Portis, a good running back on offense, is the key to having a good offense. Sorry, Champ, but our defense sucked last year, and you were on our team. One position alone will not make a defense good. I feel about a 100 times better going in with what we have, personel wise, than I did last year defensivley. That dosent even include the coaching factor. I'm glad we have Portis on our team.

Reading the article actually made me respect Champ a little more... whether he really meant that he wanted to stay in Washington is something we'll never know, but I understand a little more where he's coming from. Guys, we've grown up being Skins fans- been through all of the ups and downs. Champ went to UGA and was drafted during the Norv years. He went through the a multitude of defensive coordinators during his years here- how can we expect him to have the same passion for the Skins when he doesn't even know the stability of a single defensive scheme? His entire career here, he not only went through different coordinators, but also different players around him (moreso than most teams' turnover ratio), as well as different playbooks nearly every year. The context from what we know about Redskins tradition and history was probably never seen from Champ's perspective.

Yes, LaVar went through the same things and he's stayed loyal to the Skins. But let's not be quick to forget the phat contract extension he received that bolstered his loyalty a little bit to. Yes, we also gave Champ a more than fair offer... but compare what Denver offerred him and tell me it's not a significant difference. We're not talking pennies- he was offerred way more money for less years. In this case, the system worked for him b/c his agent/himself knew what he could fetch on the open market. The Skins had a choice to make in deciding who to give franchise money to- and it went to LA. I'm not saying it was wrong (in fact, I'm happy we kept LaVar), but if Champ requires the same amount more power to him if he gets it.

I do sense that he really has more of a sense of loyalty a stronger sense to win than most athletes- the article mentioned him saying that he was real sad to see the Skins let Davis and Johnson go. The thing that caught me was that he wasn't even down to get traded straight up for LaDainian Tomlinson (even though that's an awesome trade)... but he saw a chance to win in Denver and that's why he went there. He was tired of losing in DC. So are the fans right? But the difference is- we, as fans, know what Gibbs brings to the table after so many years of losing... Champ was just tired of seeing wholesale changes every year and continuing to lose as a player on the field.

Sorry if I'm sounding like i'm trying to hard to defend him- in all honesty we're a much better team after the trade for Portis, drafting Taylor, the FA pickups, and the new coaching additions. But I remember him being one of my favorite players while he was a Skin, never complaining during the offseason upheavals, during the season, and most importantly always putting himself out on the field. BTW- every corner in this league gets burned at one point or another... you put your best corner on the best wideout every game and it's going to happen eventually. Champ's still the man at his position though.

That being said though, I think we need to look at the bigger picture. And Springs, Portis is better than say Champ and Trung. And like Hogskins points out, let's not underestimate Gregg Williams. He'll make good things happen with this defense.[/QUOTE]
I think you said it all right there. :iamwithst

[QUOTE=itvnetop]BTW- every corner in this league gets burned at one point or another... you put your best corner on the best wideout every game and it's going to happen eventually. Champ's still the man at his position though.[/QUOTE]

Of course. I wasn't trying to say that BECAUSE he got burnt he sucks. As I said, I'd rather have him on my team than not. That being said, he got burned REPEATEDLY last year -- and by repeatedly, I mean time after time after time.

Just think for a moment about what I said regarding the Dolphins game.

Am I the only one who remembers Champ not exactly being a tackling machine? I know that there are a lot of corners out there that are not enamored with hitting people but he was too Deion-esque for my tastes. I'm curious if anyone knows how Springs is against the run? Champ was horrible in that regard.