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Summo 08-10-2004 08:19 PM

Madden 2005 initial impressions.
 
:tongue Hey Guy's,
Let me say first that I have owned every version of Madden (Yes I even spent $800 for a 3DO), and just about every other version of football games out there, and until this year there hasn't been a better football video game made, until this year. ESPN 2K5 in my opinion blows Madden away in almost every area. I thought I would never say that, but it is true. The graphics on ESPN 2K5 are way ahead of Madden's this year, the game play is better and the player animations are much more realistic. I am so disappointed in EA for this version. There has been many articles on how they redesigned the player models for this year's version and in my opinion they took a step backward. I just hope that the designers realize that they fell behind ESPN and push harder to put out a better version next season. What do you guy's think?

itvnetop 08-10-2004 08:49 PM

this will probably get moved to the gaming forum, but i haven't played the new madden yet (although i've been playing madden since genesis). once i played espn's (formerly sega's) 2K series, i've been hooked... gameplay is much better for my style of video game play. madden may have the market for extra features (dynasties, custom teams, etc), but i just seem to have more fun playing espn's.

beg8878 08-10-2004 09:48 PM

I went from Madden to the 2k series but now I am switching back to Madden, only because everybody I know has Madden. I 've tried for a few years to convince them to make the switch but it wasn't happening. I'm sure once I get the hang of madden again I'll love it. but I always liked 2k

Riggo44 08-10-2004 09:49 PM

ESPN is ok. But I still want Madden!!!! :)

Mattyk 08-10-2004 10:19 PM

Madden all the way for me.

I just got it tonight, I'm simming the first season to get to the offseason stuff. So far I've spent about an hour just doing training camp stuff and getting familiar with all the new stuff. Haven't actually played a game yet! LOL

illdefined 08-10-2004 11:27 PM

yeah Summo, going from 2 weeks with ESPN's 100s of super-nice animations to Madden's 5 year old ones (what are there 50?) and the 8 new ones this year is way too hard to come back to. and you're right about the players, look at their textured arms compared to ESPN's normal-mapped ones (3D textures), its a step back from last year when the lighting came from the environment, not drawn on. its too bad too, cuz the field and stadiums were really improved in this year's Madden.

the one thing that keeps me from going totally Sega Fanboy is the 'rotate and run' thing the ESPN players do on small radius turns. totally defeats the purpose of the love and care that went into all 100s of dope animations they did. love the cuts and twists on drastic moves tho. for small turns they need to lean into it like in Madden. else i think ESPN has it beat.

all the defensive hot routes/audibles Madden highlights so hard this year are in ESPN (love the on-the-fly audible setting and player swapping at the playcall screen). but playing and seeing the game in action is what does it for me. just seeing the running back take a handoff bump into his guys, squeeze between, stutter...so much more dynamic. and the tackles. lord the tackles. thats real physics. if only they didnt rotate on small turns!!!!

too bad about the franchise/draft/etc. options everyone wants too. to me its about the game on the screen and in my hands.

illdefined 08-10-2004 11:36 PM

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Madden all the way for me.

I just got it tonight, I'm simming the first season to get to the offseason stuff. So far I've spent about an hour just doing training camp stuff and getting familiar with all the new stuff. Haven't actually played a game yet! LOL[/QUOTE]

Matty, have you played this years ESPN yet? play on Slow and watch some replays of what you just did, and then watch and wonder at the realtime tackles. you'll be in awe. i been playing Madden since John Madden Football on the genesis, but Sega's been trying harder than EA for years now.

saden1 08-10-2004 11:52 PM

I only have one problem with ESPN NFL 2k5...it's not on PC.

Mattyk 08-11-2004 01:03 AM

No I haven't played espn and I don't plan to. I gave 2k4 a shot and I just didn't like it.

SKINSnCANES 08-11-2004 03:43 AM

I dont get any of anyones reasoning behind likeing the espn game better. The presentation is superior to madden... AKA the part of teh game taht has nothign to do with playing, or a franchise... The animations were cool for about ten minute when I played the espn game. ESPN took so much time in trying to make an animation look real, that they fucked up the way players actually move. When you cut in espn the guy goes straight left, then straight up. most of the time when you have a fast player you get run down by a linemen becuase of the way the animations are. OK, so if you watch the instant replay it looks cool, who cares, in actual gameplay it takes away from the experience.

Everyone here seems to be aruging about the animations for some reason and not taking into account any of the other factors. you look at the game as if all that matters is when you play one game. Off season mode is elementary compared to madden..

Next year id be willing to bet that madden adds in a bunch of stupid presentation just to shut up the critics. That way, all the players that dont care about gameplay and just want the pregame show to be pretty will be happy.

ESPN uses a better rendering system and has more detail in their graphics, but those graphics during gameplay are less representative to acutaly players motion then in madden.

There should be a seperate thread for this argument. one for people that only play one of the games and are hugely biased, and another thread for those people that own both games and have played both of them through atleast one season and know the differences. Its just getting annoying having the same arguments with people that having even played both games. My final opinion is that ESPN is pretty to watch, but is inferior to madden as a complete game.

illdefined 08-11-2004 04:48 AM

no one in this thread even mentioned the presentation stuff (which is obviously first rate). its all bonus to me. the *great* animations on the FIELD make the players come alive, before, during and after the play. the rotating thing is a definite weakness, but it has been worked on alot, big changes in direction are greeted with fantastic realistic timing and animations, not the quick afterthought Madden semi-cut tried this year (i have and played both)

the tackles are 100% dead-on PERFECT. they start off as the usual great ESPN animation but like the real NFL, at anytime any number of tacklers can join in! you're riding Jamal Lewis in a slow wrap up animation with a cornerback while he's driving you towards the 1st down line. suddenly two LBs finally get there, WRAP themselves around Lewis AND you, and drive the pile backward! the guy underneath twists arounds his legs while the LBs have him from the top, NO ONE LETS GO till they're all on the ground and everyone spins off each other and anyone caught underneath them. this happens EVERY play and really adds to the football gameplay. you AIM the second contact the way you want the pile to go, and then see it executed perfectly in realtime (not a mocapped script), individual weights and momentum (read: real Physics) with everyone actually GRABBING something. no player clipping, generic tackle anims or bounce offs. light years ahead of the generic scripted Madden tackles.

this kind of attention to detail is in EVERYTHING on the field. the line of schrimmage has amazing animations/feel when you're being held up but still bullrushing trying to get around a Olineman, you can get to the QB with the OLineman still hanging off you! the swats, cornerback bump battles, jump catches, spin catches, over the head catches, low catches, scrambling for fumbles (especially great) kill Madden's in quantity and realism. these all happen during the gameplay and you'll drop your jaw to see how smoothly they flow from one another, ESPN makes you think it was all one long enormous mocap session for just that one play. they spent the same amount of time on animations before and after the play too, like when they call timeout from the ground after a hit, drop an easy pass, get a first down, make a great play. great great great stuff.

yeah the franchise/drafting stuff may not be up to Madden's standards, but thats extra to me too (i know its not for many).

to me, its all about the actual gameplay and how 'football' the GAME feels, and hell yeah ESPN is a whoooole lot prettier. its just as much a chess game as Madden is this year too with all the audibles, defensive hot routes, player matchups, player swapping, and individual def. assignments. more importantly, aside from the lack of leaning into runs, the MECHANICS like tackling, touch passing over defenders, defending passes, cutting then squeezing through holes, PUSHING lead olineman on a run, all feels (and looks) ALOT realer than Madden's 5 year old engine can handle. no matter how they keep trying to add make up on it.

i agree, take a serious look at both the latest installments before you comment

Mattyk 08-11-2004 08:15 AM

Why does there always have to be a bitch battle between people over these two games?? LOL

I'm not talking about people here necessarily, I see this kinda stuff all over.

I'll never understand it. There's plenty of room for both games. Both games are great in their own right. If you like one over the other that's great. Seems like people are always trying to convince others that one is better than the other, but when you look around at gaming sites and magazines, the reviews are usually neck and neck.

So basically it's a toss up. Why can't we all just play the game you like and be happy. :)

illdefined 08-11-2004 08:37 AM

there isnt 'room' when people just buy Madden blindly cuz of the name, and wont support or even LOOK at the underdogs, no matter how improved, highly rated or reviewed. then they talk about how awesome the one game they have and played is, on 'discussion' boards like this.

Fever's gone (r.i.p. Read n' Lead, a true innovation, as are the best player faces in videogame football), and ESPN is super undervalued at $20, what happens next year? ESPN gets cancelled too and Madden adds player moustaches and new GroundsKeeper Mode. and we gotta pay $50 to play our updated teams on a 6 year old engine.

any other games that add so little every year are called EXPANSION PACKS and don't cost $50. EA has been getting over on its customers for years.

Redskins_P 08-11-2004 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]I dont get any of anyones reasoning behind likeing the espn game better. The presentation is superior to madden... AKA the part of teh game taht has nothign to do with playing, or a franchise... The animations were cool for about ten minute when I played the espn game. ESPN took so much time in trying to make an animation look real, that they fucked up the way players actually move. When you cut in espn the guy goes straight left, then straight up. most of the time when you have a fast player you get run down by a linemen becuase of the way the animations are. OK, so if you watch the instant replay it looks cool, who cares, in actual gameplay it takes away from the experience.

Everyone here seems to be aruging about the animations for some reason and not taking into account any of the other factors. you look at the game as if all that matters is when you play one game. Off season mode is elementary compared to madden..

Next year id be willing to bet that madden adds in a bunch of stupid presentation just to shut up the critics. That way, all the players that dont care about gameplay and just want the pregame show to be pretty will be happy.

ESPN uses a better rendering system and has more detail in their graphics, but those graphics during gameplay are less representative to acutaly players motion then in madden.

There should be a seperate thread for this argument. one for people that only play one of the games and are hugely biased, and another thread for those people that own both games and have played both of them through atleast one season and know the differences. Its just getting annoying having the same arguments with people that having even played both games. My final opinion is that ESPN is pretty to watch, but is inferior to madden as a complete game.[/QUOTE]

I AGREE! I just got Madden last night, and it's 100 times better then 2k5.

Mattyk 08-11-2004 09:57 AM

I have tried the 2K series several times in the past and for me I just prefer Madden.

I'm sorry if that annoys some people, but as long as Madden is a quality product, (which it definitely is no matter what some sega fanboys may say), I see no reason to buy another game.

It's not like Madden receives horrible reviews while 2K receives glowing reviews. They are both very highly regarded. I can see your point Ill if Madden was clearly on the decline and people were still buying it, then they would definitely be buying it on the name alone. But that's simply not the case.


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