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70Chip 01-09-2008 01:09 PM

Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
His pothead supporters won't think this is very groovy:

[URL]http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129[/URL]

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 01-09-2008 01:14 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
Did anyone catch him on Meet the Press? I know a lot of people love him for his anti-war stance, but that's a very small part of the puzzle. I'm a "mainstream libertarian" and I think the guy is nuts.

DynamiteRave 01-09-2008 01:18 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
I've read about his different stances and I like the guy a whole hell of a lot more than Huckabee. Even though I vote democrat.

I'd rather see Ross Perot as president before Huckabee. :doh:

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 01-09-2008 01:21 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;405198]I've read about his different stances and I like the guy a whole hell of a lot more than Huckabee. Even though I vote democrat.

I'd rather see Ross Perot as president before Huckabee. :doh:[/QUOTE]

Really? As a Dem? The guy has all but explicitly stated that he'd like to get rid of the Department of Education, IRS, SEC, FCC, FTC, and all other departments but the DoJ and DoD. He also believes the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were mistakes and that segregation should be permitted in private places (e.g., restaurants and bars). The guy is off his freakin' rocker. I believe in small government, this guy believes in Mad Max.

70Chip 01-09-2008 01:41 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
People who don't have a history in the Republican Party have a hard time spotting the whackos. Ron Paul may be the last gasp of the real extreme America First/John Birch Society nutjobs. I thought they were all dead by now. You have to understand that the reason he is oppossed to the Iraq War is that he thinks it was all orchestrated by the Jews. Please don't mistake this guy for something he's not.

12thMan 01-09-2008 02:13 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405192]Did anyone catch him on Meet the Press? I know a lot of people love him for his anti-war stance, but that's a very small part of the puzzle. I'm a "mainstream libertarian" and I think the guy is nuts.[/quote]


I saw that interview on Meet The Press - unbelievable. I was in NH over the weekend, and this guy has a following like a cult. I mean they're everywhere.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 01-09-2008 02:20 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[QUOTE=12thMan;405233]I saw that interview on Meet The Press - unbelievable. I was in NH over the weekend, and this guy has a following like a cult. I mean they're everywhere.[/QUOTE]

When a mainstream candidate says that the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were a mistake, you know something is awry. I must admit that he intrigued me when I first heard about him, but after hearing him speak for more than 5 minutes I realized he was kind of bat-sh*t. I've got to chalk up his following to: (a) disenchantment with the political establishment; and (b) interest provoked by a Republican speaking out against the war. I can't think of any other rational explanation.

Any Ron Paul supporters care to weigh in?

12thMan 01-09-2008 02:26 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405241]When a mainstream candidate says that the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were a mistake, you know something is awry. I must admit that he intrigued me when I first heard about him, but after hearing him speak for more than 5 minutes I realized he was kind of bat-sh*t. I've got to chalk up his following to: (a) disenchantment with the political establishment; and (b) interest provoked by a Republican speaking out against the war. I can't think of any other rational explanation.

Any Ron Paul supporters care to weigh in?[/quote]

I don't know, but I di know that he touts himself as the Champion of the Constitution, which is scary in itself. Usually when someone thinks in such a way, they seriously lack balance.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 01-09-2008 02:35 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[QUOTE=12thMan;405242]I don't know, but I di know that he touts himself as the Champion of the Constitution, which is scary in itself. Usually when someone thinks in such a way, they seriously lack balance.[/QUOTE]

I'm aware of his "I defend the Constitution" mantra. Unfortunately, I've also heard him express his opinion as to certain legal matters involving the Constitution. He has no clue what he is talking about but his talking points seem to resonate with certain segments of the general public.

12thMan 01-09-2008 02:41 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405247]I'm aware of his "I defend the Constitution" mantra. Unfortunately, I've also heard him express his opinion as to certain legal matters involving the Constitution. He has no clue what he is talking about but his talking points seem to resonate with certain segments of the general public.[/quote]

His message does resonate with a segment of the public. But I think those people generally agreee with him on an issue here and there. For instance, he's outspoken about the war but he also want's to get rid of the Federal Reserve. He's also made some controversial statements about public education.

I think if he were a leading candidate and was under the spotlight 24/7 like some of the others, most people wouldn't take as seriously as they suppose they do.

mheisig 01-09-2008 03:22 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[QUOTE=12thMan;405249]His message does resonate with a segment of the public. But I think those people generally agreee with him on an issue here and there. For instance, he's outspoken about the war but he also want's to get rid of the Federal Reserve. He's also made some controversial statements about public education.

I think if he were a leading candidate and was under the spotlight 24/7 like some of the others, most people wouldn't take as seriously as they suppose they do.[/QUOTE]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

His views are pretty diverse, and I think almost anyone in the country would agree with him on one point or another. I think he just hasn't gotten enough exposure for people to see the full spectrum of his ideas.

Personally I kind of like him. Not saying I'd vote for him, as I haven't researched him enough yet, but he's at least different and not afraid to speak his mind.

I think one of the things people find attractive is that he's very specific in his plans and ideas, very concrete. On the other side of the fence I think that's what Hillary has going for her too, she's pretty concrete and particular about what to change.

What blows me away is that people don't see through a guy like Obama. Listen to him speak for 20 minutes and you get this very nice, hopeful sounding bit of rhetoric with no real substance. Even go to the guys website and look at his stance on various issues and most of it is vague fluff. I finish listening to him and pretty much think, "Ok...that sounds very nice, but what the hell are your actual, specific plans?"

12thMan 01-09-2008 03:33 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[quote=mheisig;405264]I think you hit the nail on the head.

His views are pretty diverse, and I think almost anyone in the country would agree with him on one point or another. I think he just hasn't gotten enough exposure for people to see the full spectrum of his ideas.

Personally I kind of like him. Not saying I'd vote for him, as I haven't researched him enough yet, but he's at least different and not afraid to speak his mind.

I think one of the things people find attractive is that he's very specific in his plans and ideas, very concrete. On the other side of the fence I think that's what Hillary has going for her too, she's pretty concrete and particular about what to change.

What blows me away is that people don't see through a guy like Obama. Listen to him speak for 20 minutes and you get this very nice, hopeful sounding bit of rhetoric with no real substance. Even go to the guys website and look at his stance on various issues and most of it is vague fluff. I finish listening to him and pretty much think, "Ok...that sounds very nice, but what the hell are your actual, specific plans?"[/quote]

Ron Paul is good for the process regardless of where he stands. Because at the end of the day, even if his policies and views are way off, at least he's engaging the American people on some level.

As far as Obama goes, since I'm actually supporting him, I won't dare get into anything that will dispute what you believe or think about him. But being around the campaign, I will say that he has definitely laid out some very concrete plans on a number of issues. It's just that the clamour around him is so "loud" at times, that's not what people are buzzing about.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a few weeks.

RobH4413 01-09-2008 03:51 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
I'm still on the John McCain bandwagon (and have been for quite some time). I really didn't like the way he handled himself in the pass year or so, drifting away from the "Maverick" that spoke with passion against corruption in the Gov't, but he's still my front runner.

He's starting to make a nice little comeback, and against the likes of extremes like Romney and Giuliani... he looks more and more like the rational Republican. Here's a little excerpt from the Washington Post Op-eds today...

[INDENT]"Mr. McCain offers a voice of reason tempered by the knowledge that many voters are furious about illegal immigration. His deep knowledge of foreign affairs, clearheaded approach to the threat of Islamic extremism and unwillingness to abandon his support for the war in [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iraq?tid=informline"]Iraq[/URL], even when it threatened to cost him his bid for the presidency, are admirable, as is his unswerving opposition to the use of torture by U.S. personnel. Although we disagree with the [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Arizona?tid=informline"]Arizona[/URL] senator on a host of domestic issues, including tax policy, abortion rights and gay rights, his willingness to take on such issues as climate change and campaign finance reform -- neither of which were particularly popular with his party -- reflects well on his character and judgment."
[/INDENT]From [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR2008010804600.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

12thMan 01-09-2008 03:53 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
McCain is making a nice comeback. If I'm Republican, I think this is the guy you want to get the nomination. Mitt Romney has been trashing McCain of late, but I think it's just a matter of time before he's fully exposed for what he is.

Mac is Back!

mheisig 01-09-2008 03:54 PM

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 
[QUOTE=12thMan;405268]Ron Paul is good for the process regardless of where he stands. Because at the end of the day, even if his policies and views are way off, at least he's engaging the American people on some level.

As far as Obama goes, since I'm actually supporting him, I won't dare get into anything that will dispute what you believe or think about him. But being around the campaign, I will say that he has definitely laid out some very concrete plans on a number of issues. It's just that the clamour around him is so "loud" at times, that's not what people are buzzing about.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a few weeks.[/QUOTE]

There can be plenty of clamor around a candidate who is mostly "fluff."

He's young, good looking, excellent speaker. The masses love that, regardless of what he's actually saying or not saying.

Like you said, I'm really not even debating political viewpoints here, but more campaign/candidate strategy and presentation. I've read through his issue stances on his website, and it all strikes me as incredibly vague. It's stuff like "Let's improve healthcare" and why it's so important, but never gets into the nitty gritty of how he's going to do it. That's really not even commenting on him as a person or an individual, but how his team is presenting him to the public.

Like I said, Hillary does a better job of this than Obama. I'm absolutely not a supporter of her and it'll be a cold, brisk day in hell before I cast a vote for her, but I think she beats Obama out on presenting substance and being detailed.


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