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-   -   Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League (http://www.thewarpath.net/salary-cap-central/22814-redskins-free-agent-contracts-vs-league.html)

SKINSnCANES 03-05-2008 05:03 PM

Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
So this is a topic that has been discussed in probably every thread recently in some capacity, but I want to address it on its own.

Recently there is a lot of discussion on how everyone is glad we arent over paying, talking about how normally its us that gives out big deals, etc. But I was thinking back to all the deals we made, and really they dont seem that big.

We have Clinton Portis a 50 million dollar contract, that really wasnt that long ago ya know. There have been dozens of threads over the years saying how we paid him so much money, and gave up a pick, etc. My point is though, 50 million seems cheap now.

Turner got 35 million after being a backup, Lamont Jordon got a big pay day as a back up. Jevon Walker just got over 50 million. All the offensive linemen are getting atleast 30 million. Nate Clemons got over 80 million.

The last few years salaries have skyrocketed. If I could poll on this, I would ask if you think Dan Snyder is to blame for the high salaries of today?

He really started this trend of big spending to bring in guys.

If you look at all the guys we signed, like Springs, Washington, Moss, Randle El, even llyod, which were all in recent years, and look at the market the last two years, we really didnt overpay at all. Jevon Walker was hurt and got over 50 million!

Weve been an easy target for many years when it comes to free agency, even though we always have no problem staying under the cap. Remember when Gibbs had those conferences saying that we are paying to bring top young talent, and if you wait a few years youll see that we are getting a great deal and saving money? I think Gibbs was dead on. All those guys we overpaid for are really bargins right now, and for whatever reasons Redskins more than anyone else constantly rework contracts to help the team out. Dan made his mistakes the first couple years with the older guys that got big money, but recently I think his been doing well with signing, I still wish we grew through the draft a lot more, but I like that we have gone after what was considered top young talent to fill needs so we can draft best available instead of need.

So what do you guys think, here are the questions I posted:

Do you think the Redskins are to blame for the new high salaries?
Do you think our recent high priced players turned out to be value, instead of over paying?
Do you think its best to fill all needs via free agency, so at the draft you always pick best available and arent handicapped by any needs?

Mattyk 03-05-2008 05:07 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
-The Skins definitely aren't to blame for what's going on now. The rise in the cap is what's to blame.

-Some of the contracts we have now certainly don't look that bad compared to what's currently being dished out.

-I think you still have to strike a balance between filling needs in free agency and the draft. The draft is great for filling your roster with cheap young depth.

BleedBurgundy 03-05-2008 05:10 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES;429574]
Do you think the Redskins are to blame for the new high salaries?
Do you think our recent high priced players turned out to be value, instead of over paying?
Do you think its best to fill all needs via free agency, so at the draft you always pick best available and arent handicapped by any needs?[/QUOTE]

I think it would be somewhat naive to think that DS's early bouts of free spending didn't have at least some effect on the current contracts being paid out. The skins raised the bar when it came to what a FA could expect, not to mention that for a few years every agent used the Skins as leverage to get bigger and better contracts.

I think that some of our high-priced players have turned out well, others obviously not so much. I believe that when you look back with a broader frame of reference that our free agent signings have been less ludicrous than they initially appeared, but only because of the continually sliding scale.

Best way to build is through the draft and fill one or two glaring needs through Free Agency only if a good fit is available. Reaching and overspending is almost always catastrophic.

SKINSnCANES 03-05-2008 05:11 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[quote=Mattyk72;429578]-The Skins definitely aren't to blame for what's going on now. The rise in the cap is what's to blame.

-Some of the contracts we have now certainly don't look that bad compared to what's currently being dished out.

-I think you still have to strike a balance between filling needs in free agency and the draft. The draft is great for filling your roster with cheap young depth.[/quote]

yea that new Direct TV contract helped bump the cap up a ton, it probably also saved us from being in cap hell, somethign Im sure Snyder took into account when he made the contracts

Mattyk 03-05-2008 05:20 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[quote=SKINSnCANES;429581]yea that new Direct TV contract helped bump the cap up a ton, it probably also saved us from being in cap hell, somethign Im sure Snyder took into account when he made the contracts[/quote]

Yeah the Skins have a rolling 3 year plan when it comes to the cap, so they are always aware of cap implications down the road.

Mattyk 03-05-2008 05:23 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[quote=BleedBurgundy;429580][B]I think it would be somewhat naive to think that DS's early bouts of free spending didn't have at least some effect on the current contracts being paid out.[/B] The skins raised the bar when it came to what a FA could expect, not to mention that for a few years every agent used the Skins as leverage to get bigger and better contracts.

I think that some of our high-priced players have turned out well, others obviously not so much. I believe that when you look back with a broader frame of reference that our free agent signings have been less ludicrous than they initially appeared, but only because of the continually sliding scale.

Best way to build is through the draft and fill one or two glaring needs through Free Agency only if a good fit is available. Reaching and overspending is almost always catastrophic.[/quote]

But at the same time shouldn't teams have learned a thing or two from watching the Redskins swing and miss on several guys? The Skins were trail blazers when it came to aggressively attacking the FA market and giving up picks for RFA's, but it wasn't exactly a huge success but here we are seeing contracts going through the roof while the Skins are sitting back and watching.

FRPLG 03-05-2008 05:26 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
This has been part of what has driven me crazy. Before the new CBA everyone was talking about how our team was going to have to field 20 rookies to make the cap work and everything when it was totally ignored that our contracts were designed to take advantage of the fact that the cap was going to clearly jump a bunch in a new CBA. Those contracts now seem very reasonable when measured in the proper context.

SKINSnCANES 03-05-2008 05:29 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
I wonder how many agents/players are in a meeting trying to get a contract and go, 'Man, Synder paid him 35 million and he didnt do shit, youre getting a better player in me, now pay me the money'

its probably good we dont get big players this year, if anything so internally we dont have to pay our performing players more than the expensive ones that dont perform. For years Renaldo Wynn had a big contact and didnt do much

Schneed10 03-05-2008 05:32 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
I have to say though, that it is entirely inappropriate to compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago, such as Clinton Portis's, to a contract signed today, like Javon Walker's.

Naturally as the cap has gone up, so should player contracts. You must compare contracts issued that year against one another, you can't really compare across years.

The Redskins did overpay for their players based on where contracts were valued at the time. That said, they were the only team in the NFL that projected the cap limit successfully and managed their cap figures to maximize that space.

I have no doubt we're the top cap management team in the NFL. Where we haven't been so great is getting the most talent for our money. That comes down to picking players. Thankfully, I think we're on the right track with that now, and I'm hopeful for some great results over the next few years.

firstdown 03-05-2008 05:35 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
It was a plan devised by Snyder when he took over the team. He would paly all of these players these big deals to drive up the cost of signing free agents. When the prices went through the roof he backed out of signing any big name FA's. This going to but teams in cap problems so they will have to dump a bunch of players. The market will get over run with top players and we can cherry pick these guys to fill our needs. We do this for three years then the cycle starts all over again. This time we are smarter and will bring home a SB within a year or two or three or sometime this century.

Schneed10 03-05-2008 05:35 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
There's an article on SI's Truth and Rumors today about how the veteran Jet players are upset about the money just handed out to the new free agent class. They're wondering when they're going to get theirs. You can see the kind of angst a free agent binge causes in the locker room, same thing was happening to us every time we went on a binge. I think it affects team chemistry, besides the fact that new players have a learning curve. You end up with a tough season.

You're best off drafting guys into the program and letting them earn their stripes on the field, and then get paid. It helps breed a blue-collar, hard work equals financial reward kind of mentality.

Work and deserve it, earn it to own it.

FRPLG 03-05-2008 05:37 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[QUOTE=Schneed10;429601]I have to say though, that it is entirely inappropriate to compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago, such as Clinton Portis's, to a contract signed today, like Javon Walker's.

Naturally as the cap has gone up, so should player contracts. You must compare contracts issued that year against one another, you can't really compare across years.

The Redskins did overpay for their players based on where contracts were valued at the time. That said, they were the only team in the NFL that projected the cap limit successfully and managed their cap figures to maximize that space.

I have no doubt we're the top cap management team in the NFL. Where we haven't been so great is getting the most talent for our money. That comes down to picking players. Thankfully, I think we're on the right track with that now, and I'm hopeful for some great results over the next few years.[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree. Our problem has been talent evaluation and not talent compensation. The structure of deals matter too. Maybe Portis' contract looks bad when valued as a whole but if it structured properly then it probably fit just fine with the cap situation in the league at the time and was increased accordingly with projected cap increases. Total value of contracts means nothing in the NFL.

SKINSnCANES 03-05-2008 05:41 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[quote=Schneed10;429606]There's an article on SI's Truth and Rumors today about how the veteran Jet players are upset about the money just handed out to the new free agent class. They're wondering when they're going to get theirs. You can see the kind of angst a free agent binge causes in the locker room, same thing was happening to us every time we went on a binge. I think it affects team chemistry, besides the fact that new players have a learning curve. You end up with a tough season.

You're best off drafting guys into the program and letting them earn their stripes on the field, and then get paid. It helps breed a blue-collar, hard work equals financial reward kind of mentality.

Work and deserve it, earn it to own it.[/quote]

I just finished reading a similar article. It is messed up what they dotn pay Pete Kendall, then they overpay for Faneca. Even on the Skins, if Taylor was alive no matter what he has to get a bigger deal than AA, how do you think that made him feel. Or Moss when we got the other receivers, you know they all think about it.

sportscurmudgeon 03-05-2008 06:07 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
I do not think the Redskins/Dan Snyder are "responsible for" the huge FA contracts of the past year or two.

The Redskins did not "invent" the idea of throwing big bucks at free agents in the salary cap era. What the Redskins did first - with not a whole lot of success - was to throw big bucks at [B]a lot of free agents [/B]such that they are in the perpetual mode of renegotiating those deals to get under the cap for next year so they can spend again. Perhaps, 2008 is a break in that cycle [my preference] or perhaps they just needed to really reload for a wild and crazy ride in the 2009 marketplace...

The Redskins didn't invent huge NFL salaries either. In the 1980s, three teams outspent the rest of the league by a HUGE margin every year. Those teams were the Redskins, the 49ers and the Cowboys. Not all that surprisingly, those three teams dominated the playoff action for much of the decade of the 1980s. When the salary cap went into effect, some contracts had to be grandfathered in order that some teams did not have to dismantle themselves. The team that was the most outrageously over the cap was the Cowboys under Jerry Jones. Danny Boy Snyder wasn't even on the NFL radar when that happened so he can't possibly be "responsble for" the elevated salaries.

hooskins 03-05-2008 08:07 PM

Re: Redskins Free Agent Contracts vs. League
 
[quote=BleedBurgundy;429580][B]I think it would be somewhat naive to think that DS's early bouts of free spending didn't have at least some effect on the current contracts being paid out. The skins raised the bar when it came to what a FA could expect, not to mention that for a few years every agent used the Skins as leverage to get bigger and better contracts.[/B]

I think that some of our high-priced players have turned out well, others obviously not so much. I believe that when you look back with a broader frame of reference that our free agent signings have been less ludicrous than they initially appeared, but only because of the continually sliding scale.

Best way to build is through the draft and fill one or two glaring needs through Free Agency only if a good fit is available. Reaching and overspending is almost always catastrophic.[/quote]

Well you could spin that back around, and say DS gave out huge contracts in [I]anticipation[/I] of an increase of the cap by owners. he projected it and saw that renegotiations could be done to get big name players in, without killing us cap-wise. The rest of the league did not make such moves in the past, and is now doing.


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