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Ruhskins 04-18-2008 06:11 PM

Redskins Passing Game
 
I was curious to get people's thoughts on our passing game and how that has been affecting the overall offensive output. While we have talked about getting a WR ad nauseum (sp?), I don't know if we have talked about how exactly the Redskins could/should/will address their (in my opinion) average production in the passing game (feel free to disagree with me in this one). In reading ARE's chat on ESPN, I found it interesting to hear his comments about how he felt handcuffed in Gibbs offense. It made me think about whether the answer to offensive woes is not the lack of a WR, but the lack of an aggressive passing game. Or do we really need a catalyst in the passing game, such as a Chad Johnson or Roy Williams? Or does this really lie with our offensive line and pass protection?

To help with the discussion, I took a look at our passing rankings and the top two receivers for our team over the past four years, hopefully this will help in getting this discussion going:

Redskins Offensive Passing Rankings (From Stats Inc)

2007
Pass Yd: 3463 (14th)
PY/G: 216.4 (14th)
Pass TD: 18 (Tied for 20th)
Moss: 61 Rec, 808 Yds, 13.2 Avg, 3 TD
Cooley: 66 Rec, 798 Yds, 11.9 Avg, 8 TD

2006
Pass Yd: 3027 (21st)
PY/G: 189.2 (21st)
Pass TD: 19 (Tied for 17th)
Moss: 55 Rec, 790 Yds, 14.4 Avg, 6 TD
Cooley: 57 Rec, 734 Yds, 12.9 Avg, 6 TD

2005
Pass Yd: 3106 (21st)
PY/G: 194.1 (21st)
Pass TD: 25 (Tied for 5th)
Moss: 84 Rec, 1483 Yds, 17.7 Avg, 9 TD
Cooley: 71 Rec, 774 Yds, 10.9 Avg, 7 TD


2004
Pass Yd: 2632 (29th)
PY/G: 164.5 (29th)
Pass TD: 18 (24th)
Coles: 90 Rec, 950 Yds, 10.6 Avg, 1 TD
Gardner: 51 Rec, 650 Yds, 12.7 Avg, 5 TD

(As always, if any administrators feel that this threads needs a better title, by all means feel free to change it)

DirteePosse 04-18-2008 06:27 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
I'm with ARE, I always felt they should be more aggressive on offense. Sometimes you get yourself into trouble when you're on 3 and 15, but that's the nature of the game. New coach, new offense ~ we'll be fine.

NYCskinfan82 04-18-2008 06:52 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
I felt the great Gibbs, held Saunders back and his players, if you hire an Offensive Coordinator allow him to do his job.

Lady Brave 04-18-2008 07:06 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
It does make you wonder why Cooley has consistently had comparable, if not better, reception numbers and TD's compared to our receivers. Is it play calling or is it simply a height issue?

Skinny Tee 04-18-2008 07:18 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
Having an aggressive passing game isn't all roses. We'll have to give Campbell leeway to throw a lot more interceptions with the increased attempts. He could sink or swim under those circumstances. They probably didn't want to risk those chances in years prior.

I don't know if his game has matured enough to be in that spot this year. There are lots of questions that aren't going to answered until Kickoff Sunday draws near.

SmootSmack 04-18-2008 08:17 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;440724]Having an aggressive passing game isn't all roses. We'll have to give Campbell leeway to throw a lot more interceptions with the increased attempts. He could sink or swim under those circumstances. They probably didn't want to risk those chances in years prior.

I don't know if his game has matured enough to be in that spot this year. There are lots of questions that aren't going to answered until Kickoff Sunday draws near.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think it's really been a combination of injuries (WRs a couple of years ago, and the offensive line last year) as well as not wanting to "take the training wheels off Campbell" too early. Not to mention the fact that our best player on offense happens to be our starting running back (and arguably our second best is our TE). I don't think though that we were as conservative as ARE believes, but that's neither here nor there. Anyhow, I agree pretty much overall with the philosophy of slowly developing Jason Campbell. But that should be in the past now, it's time for him to step up and for the Redskins to let him.

SBXVII 04-18-2008 09:13 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
I've always said that I believe it's our route running and placement of the ball. That puts the blame on either our WR's we already have or our WR coach. I'm not impressed with the WR coach. Having said that height may not always be an issue. If you are delt lemons you make lemonade. If all our WR are short then you find a way to use the routes to benefit the height issue.

It would be nice to have a proven, tall, talented route running WR to compliment the other WR as well as take away the double teams from Moss and be able to put the ball up in the end zone once and a while.

I also believe Gibbs played "not to lose" ball and in his previous coaching stint it worked wonders. Only because most coach's were of the mind set to not embarrass the other coach or team and played to be only one or two scores ahead. Now is a different era and most coach's play to dominate the game and be up probably 4 scores if possible.

I can tell you I'm not happy with our WR's. I don't think we are "set" at WR. Even if we get our Lineman for protection it does no good if we have no one to throw to. Even if we get our DE/DL it does not help us with getting the 3rd down when we need it. How many of you complained of "run, run, pass(which went no where), and punt? We have many needs on this team. Anywhere from a starter DE/DL, starter S, or starter CB to back up CB, DE/DL, OL and WR, and 3rd string QB.

I can only guess that the best thing to do is pick the best available player at one of the positions we need at the time. Everyone on here has a difference of oppinion as to what is most important that we need and as stubborn as we all are we are not going to change each others minds. No different than if we all had to go out and pick a vehicle. Some would pick a gas saver, some would pick a convertable, some would pick a sporty car, some would pick an SUV and I bet someone would argue for a truck.

What I hate to see most is how when we get frustrated cause the other person is not agreeing with us or mad cause we can't seem to get them to agree, we start getting ugly with each other, and we probably have never met one another and have no idea exactly what each others personalities are but we quickly start jabbing at each other.

Now that I've said my peace.......go CJ. LOL.

SmootSmack 04-18-2008 09:17 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
SBXVII, I think you make a very good point about the WR Coach (Stan Hixon). I have some concerns about him too, which I believe I've expressed here. I mean it seems like for the most part we're going after established WRs that don't need to be "coached up" while, unlike just about all other positiongs, we're not developing those diamonds in the rough at the WR position. Let's see if that changes this season, maybe with Mix. Still, part of me feels like Mix won't develop fully because I'm not 100% confident that Hixon is the guy to develop him.

mike340 04-18-2008 10:48 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
The problem with our passing game is that Campbell doesn't have a high-percentage long ball.
How many TDs did our receivers get with Campbell last year? How many times was someone open only to have him rifle it and the receiver couldn't get to it? Or have him rifle it only to have it intercepted because the DB could get to it too because it had no arc?
Was Collins that much better only because they opened up the playbook?
Why didn't Campbell have one long ball in the year as good as Brunell threw in 3 minutes? Maybe Brunell had better receivers. ;-)
This coming year I better see that Campbell can throw a long ball with air under it. If he can't, we'll have no long game unless we pick up Manute Bol.

Slingin Sammy 33 04-18-2008 11:00 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
I think we need to look at the complete four year picture. We had Ramsey at QB and brought Brunell in. Ramsey was destroyed by Spurrier and never recovered. Brunell takes over, but we find out quickly that his arm strength is shot. This limits an offense in a big way when the starting QB can only throw under 20yds effectively. Gibbs' playcalling wasn't conservative just to be "conservative" he was trying to cover the liability of Brunell's weakened arm. Let's not forget Gibbs' offenses put up record numbers in his first term.

Campbell is drafted and gets some time in 2006, and starts 2007 so we are dealing with a QB going into his late 1st/early 2nd year. I also think there were playcalling issues between Saunders and Gibbs. Saunders decsions to bring in Lloyd and ARE were not good either (Lloyd=bust, ARE=solid but no better than a #3, we overpaid for him). 2007 Campbell improves but gets hurt, Moss is hurt (don't forget that's why the Jets wanted him out because of repeated injuries, hamstrings). Lazor was not experienced enough of a QB coach. I don't know much about Hixon, but Moss doesn't appear to be running improved routes, he didn't reach Lloyd and none of our younger receivers have developed.

Where do I think we are now. Zorn, if nothing else, is an exceptional QB coach. I think the WCO will help Campbell and will compensate for our lack of talent and size at WR. It will only help Cooley. I believe Zorn will open up the offense and we'll be fine.

The Goat 04-19-2008 12:45 AM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned drops as a key issue w/ our WR corp. I have no idea what the stats are (I'm not much of a stats guy) but what I do know is that lots of drops happened at crunch time last year especially. And I'm not talking about JC overthrowing - I'm talking about pigskin through the hands bouncing off the pads and falling to the turf.

It's not like I have an answer by the way. Seems like we could be aggressive but the catches need to there for it to pay off. One thing I will say is Moss, especially early in the season, had terrible hands. Thrash who doesn't have near the talent does typically have good hands, so I've been surprised that his name has not come up more as a potential 3rd WR. Gibbs always said he'd like Thrash on O more but it was a gamble to his special teams play. I sort of think if the guy can get us some consistent yards on O he should be in there.

SmootSmack 04-19-2008 12:56 AM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
It's also totally tanking on personnel moves in that area (Patten and Lloyd)

chrisl4064 04-19-2008 05:55 AM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
[quote=The Goat;440769]I'm surprised that nobody mentioned drops as a key issue w/ our WR corp. I have no idea what the stats are (I'm not much of a stats guy) but what I do know is that lots of drops happened at crunch time last year especially. And I'm not talking about JC overthrowing - I'm talking about pigskin through the hands bouncing off the pads and falling to the turf.

It's not like I have an answer by the way. Seems like we could be aggressive but the catches need to there for it to pay off. One thing I will say is Moss, especially early in the season, had terrible hands. Thrash who doesn't have near the talent does typically have good hands, so I've been surprised that his name has not come up more as a potential 3rd WR. Gibbs always said he'd like Thrash on O more but it was a gamble to his special teams play. I sort of think if the guy can get us some consistent yards on O he should be in there.[/quote]

Ive actually tried to find those stats during the year. I remember our guys driving me nuts with the dropped passes, and I remember a total lack of effort at times shown from the recievers. I think with this new system we will be able to see guys more open. Remember last year was a timing system, with Zorns new passing game JC will be able to find the open man when he wants. Timing could have played a huge part in guys dropping balls too.

SouperMeister 04-19-2008 03:23 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
[quote=NYCskinfan82;440721]I felt the great Gibbs, held Saunders back and his players, if you hire an Offensive Coordinator allow him to do his job.[/quote]I'm on record saying the same for the past two seasons. A big reason the the Skins lost numerous 2nd half leads during Gibbs' second tenure was a conservative approach whenever we got a lead. I fully expect a more aggressive passing game with Zorn calling the shots. The big wildcard - how long will Campbell take to adjust to Zorn's flavor of the WCO.

Ruhskins 04-19-2008 11:00 PM

Re: Redskins Passing Game
 
Speaking of passing game, I thought this was an interesting article:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/18/AR2008041803177.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]


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