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70Chip 06-22-2008 11:55 AM

New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
The New York Times thinks its awful if Karl Rove does it, but if it serves their pathetic interests, it's full speed ahead:

[URL="http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/22/america/22ksm.php"]Inside a 9/11 mastermind's interrogation - International Herald Tribune[/URL]

"Martinez declined to be interviewed; his role was described by colleagues. General Michael V. Hayden, director of the CIA, and a lawyer representing Martinez asked that he not be named in this article, saying that the former interrogator believed that the use of his name would invade his privacy and might jeopardize his safety. The New York Times, noting that Martinez had never worked undercover and that others involved in the campaign against Al Qaeda have been named in news articles and books, declined the request."

That Guy 06-22-2008 12:02 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
just more do as i say not as i do i guess...

sucks that when the right does it, it's horrible (which it is), but when they do it, it's no big deal.

70Chip 06-22-2008 12:10 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[quote=That Guy;453733]just more do as i say not as i do i guess...

sucks that when the right does it, it's horrible (which it is), but when they do it, it's no big deal.[/quote]


Knowing how reporters are, I can almost hear this Scott Shane saying something like: "You know I'd be much less inclined to use your name if you were to gve me an interview". It just reinforces the age old truth that you can't trust people who have two first names.

dmek25 06-22-2008 01:03 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
the big difference is that Karl Rove worked directly for the president. just a minor detail

saden1 06-22-2008 02:11 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
Dude has never worked undercover? How can you out someone if he doesn't work undercover? Does the mere fact that you work for the CIA put your name off limits? And why are his colleagues naming him? Is this guy really comparable to Valerie Plame (career covert agent) or Douglas Feith? What's even more disturbing is that this guy is a career narcotics analyst and had no terrorism expertise and no interrogation experience and was doing some serious dirty work.

I suppose everyone at the CIA is trying to cover their own asses at this point and I'm sure he doesn't appreciate everyone pointing their dirty fingers at him. I imagine that, while relatively comfy, no one wants to go to a federal prison or accused of war crimes.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 06-22-2008 03:04 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
As others have noted, the Plame leak is distinguishable. Plame was a covert agent, whereas the CIA interrogator here was not. Moreover, the President and the Executive Branch (i.e., the people who are charged with executing the laws Congress passed) are and should be held to a higher standard of conduct than the press.

I think, however, the more interesting question posed by the article is, "When is torture acceptable?" [U]Some[/U] people on the left often say "torture is NEVER acceptable under ANY circumstances." However, nearly every single one of those people would also make an exception if presented with the classic hypothetical, "Well what if a terrorism suspect knew the location of a nuclear device that was about to go off?" [U]Some[/U] people on the right, the so-called "law and order" folks, apparently don't think so much of laws that limit the government's right to knock the snot out of [U]suspected[/U] terrorists.

I am not sure where the line between perissible and impermissible torture is or what exactly constitutes torture. I want the government to be able to do just about whatever it takes to prevent another 9/11. On the other hand, I'm a law and order guy who generally does not like to give the government broad powers, especially the power to detain and kick the crap out of [U]suspected[/U] terrorists. It's a tough issue with no easy answers.

JWsleep 06-22-2008 03:12 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
Not a covert agent, as saden says. It's a different situation.

The interesting point in the article, IMO, is that Martinez's interrogation technique is not of the "aggressive" nature. It's the slow relationship-building kind that many in the intelligence community hold works far better than physical intimidation and torture. It's not clear to me that there's any reason to use the more aggressive methods--it does not get better info. And that's completely independent of the moral and political costs of using the aggressive methods.

It's an interesting article.

That Guy 06-22-2008 03:23 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[quote=saden1;453741]Dude has never worked undercover? How can you out someone if he doesn't work undercover? Does the mere fact that you work for the CIA put your name off limits? And why are his colleagues naming him? Is this guy really comparable to Valerie Plame (career covert agent) or Douglas Feith? What's even more disturbing is that this guy is a career narcotics analyst and had no terrorism expertise and no interrogation experience and was doing some serious dirty work.

I suppose everyone at the CIA is trying to cover their own asses at this point and I'm sure he doesn't appreciate everyone pointing their dirty fingers at him. I imagine that, while relatively comfy, no one wants to go to a federal prison or accused of war crimes.[/quote]

you don't want to point out who does what, cause it makes it easier to target specific people or infrastructure.

there's a lot of "stuff" that happens in certain places that people just don't know about, and that privacy helps save a lot of money on security.

i'm sorry i can't give you more specific examples, but that's life.

saden1 06-22-2008 03:44 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[quote=That Guy;453746]you don't want to point out who does what, cause it makes it easier to target specific people or infrastructure.

there's a lot of "stuff" that happens in certain places that people just don't know about, and that privacy helps save a lot of money on security.

i'm sorry i can't give you more specific examples, but that's life.[/quote]

Security through obscurity? I would hope and pray that my tax money is being used to provide real security. Besides, Gitmo and the other black interrogations sites aren't exactly top secrete. Finally, I would like to add that I am of the opinion that anyone who as participated or authorized torture should be outed and held accountable. I can't help it.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 06-22-2008 04:20 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[QUOTE=JWsleep;453745]It's the slow relationship-building kind that many in the intelligence community hold works far better than physical intimidation and torture.[/QUOTE]

I think it probably depends on who is being subjected to physical intimidation and torture. "Aggressive techniques" certainly yield a lot of false confessions, but they also get some people to talk who would not otherwise do so. Ask John McCain.

Slingin Sammy 33 06-22-2008 05:55 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[quote=JWsleep;453745]The interesting point in the article, IMO, is that Martinez's interrogation technique is not of the "aggressive" nature. It's the slow relationship-building kind that many in the intelligence community hold works far better than physical intimidation and torture. It's not clear to me that there's any reason to use the more aggressive methods--it does not get better info. And that's completely independent of the moral and political costs of using the aggressive methods. [/quote]
Without the Bad Cop, or "Knuckedraggers" as mentioned in the article, the Good Cop cannot be effective IMO.

70Chip 06-22-2008 10:06 PM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
The reason it was wrong to mention Plame's name to the press was that it potentially put her in danger, although it must be mentioned that she had not done covert work for several years and she had probably already been compromised by Aldrich Ames. The DCI asked The Times not to mention this guys name for the same reason and they chose to err on the side of a stronger story. Is it unreasonable to think that terrorists would seek retribution against this man? I think not. It proves that the Left's outrage over the Plame case was a convenient affectation that allowed them to attack the administration. They care nothing about the safety of our intelligence officers.

djnemo65 06-23-2008 01:29 AM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
Disregarding the fact that this man no longer works for the CIA, I thinking rendering the two circumstances in question entirely different, it certainly seems that you have changed your stance on the importance of protecting the identity of CIA agents since your Free Scooter Libby thread [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/parking-lot/18672-free-scooter-libby.html[/url], I mean, while we are discussing people changing their beliefs to suit their agendas.

One might also question, since this article is explicitely pro "harsh interrogation," skipping the debate about the legality and precedent of these techniques to instead extoll their effectiveness when used in conjunction with this interrogator's good cop approach, exactly what sort of nefarious leftist agenda is being served by publishing the man's name. It's not as if someone's identity is being leaked here as political retribution, which is at least a coherent motive, so what does the Times gain here? Seems to me this was a journalistic decision (one they actually explain in the article) and while you may not agree with it as journalism, doesn't strike me as serving an agenda.

That Guy 06-23-2008 04:46 AM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
[quote=saden1;453749]Security through obscurity? I would hope and pray that my tax money is being used to provide real security. Besides, Gitmo and the other black interrogations sites aren't exactly top secrete. Finally, I would like to add that I am of the opinion that anyone who as participated or authorized torture should be outed and held accountable. I can't help it.[/quote]

i'm not talking about interrogation sites and if you got the bill for your proposal, you might change your mind.

FRPLG 06-23-2008 08:46 AM

Re: New York Times Outs CIA Interrogator
 
Edit: Better judgement. I wnat no part of this discussion.


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