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sportscurmudgeon 07-04-2008 03:10 PM

Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Let me be clear. The title of this thread is not sarcastic. I want to praise these two men for what they have done in this off-season.

Everyone here knows that I have been more than slightly critical of these men in the past for their football decisions. Now I want to say they did something very good for the team. :goodjob:

Let me begin by defining what I mean by a "starter" in the NFL. A "starter" is someone who a team puts in a starting position on opening day. If that "starter" has a season ending injury early in the season - - say the second game - - and another player steps in and starts all or most of the rest of the games at that position, then that second player is also a "starter".

With that definition, I believe there are only two teams in the NFL who have not lost any of their "starters" in this off-season. Those two teams would be the Cleveland Browns and the Washington Redskins.

Continuity is important to a football team; the Redskins have not had a lot of that in recent years. Building on your team via the draft is important to a football team; the Redskins have not done that very well in recent years. :banghead:

But this year they have done it and so Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. :biggthump

That Guy 07-04-2008 04:11 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
we definitely took the shotgun approach to trying to fix our WR issue, but draft history has shown that to work plenty of times before (like when the broncos used 3 3rd rounders on cbs and got 2 quality guys out of it).

i mean, they swung for the fences on CJ, but i honestly think 3 years from now (long term) they did better by using the draft, and our TE depth is definitely better now too.

still need a stud DE and young OL starters, but reinhart was a good pick, and getting EJ was great (free low end starter/good backup). The young guys we have on the OL (alexander/heyer) have shown improvement, and i REALLY like the UDFAs they got this year (crummey, kerry brown).

we'll be fine on the DL, but there really isn't any chance of playing better than last year without EJ performing miracles after a bad start to a career (it's happened before, but not often).

i also really liked signing SS from the raiders to shore up the safety position/depth along with the 3 draftees that are probably good #4s and #5s, but not much more. at least they'll be better than jimoh and can help on teams.

I really wished they had signed some more vet min LB depth though... the dropoff between our starters and backups is pretty drastic and a brandon short/random vet warm body could at least be respectable while someone was injured... we've seen highway 57, and it's not a good place to be.

i do like zorn so far. no game footage yet, but there have been zero warning flags and the norv alert hasn't gone off yet, so we'll have to see, but i'm hopefully he's the real deal.

anyways, it's hard to say anything bad about this offseason overall, though i know some people would have preferred a DE in the 1st etc, we definitely did get better as a team.

Daseal 07-04-2008 04:54 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
SC must have the flu like me, he's obviously not feeling well. ;)

J. Spanky 07-04-2008 04:57 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
agreed. kudos on a job, thus far, seemingly, well done.

but hey, vinny, if you're reading this - please sign takeo spikes. and re-sign lemar marshall. vet min, of course ;)

appreciate it. thanks.

sportscurmudgeon 07-04-2008 05:43 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Daseal:

Actually, I'm feeling just fine. I thought that in the spirit of most of my posts - keeping it real to use the vernacular - Snyder and Cerrato deserved praise for this off-season.

Might I have drafted different players or players at different positions? Truth be told, I think Davis was a "luxury pick" when the team could have used help at another position. But that's nit-picking.

They kept the "starters" together AND they added talent through the draft. Even better, they added talent to the position that I have thought for the last two years was a huge weakness for the Skins - - wide receiver.

When Snyder and/or Cerrato did something dumb in the past, I called them on it. So, now that they did something very good, I thought it was intellectually honest to point it out and offer kudos to them.

Hope you get over your flu soon...

Giantone 07-04-2008 07:46 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Don't you think you should wait and see how this turns out,I understand you might like things so far but anytime Vinny is around things tend to get screwed up.

That Guy 07-04-2008 08:40 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Giantone;455193]Don't you think you should wait and see how this turns out,I understand you might like things so far but anytime Vinny is around things tend to get screwed up.[/quote]

good prospects are good prospects, a good draft is a good draft. a good offseason and lack of new injuries are good too. stability in the coaching staff and a good first impression from zorn are what they are.

yeah, it can all go south, but both of us have said, so far, so good.

GMScud 07-05-2008 12:01 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Giantone;455193]Don't you think you should wait and see how this turns out,I understand you might like things so far but anytime Vinny is around things tend to get screwed up.[/quote]

Really? Like when he won a superbowl as head college scout in San Fran? Or when Notre Dame won a national title when he was head of recruiting? Yeah, the guy has no talent for sure and an awful track record.

Skinny Tee 07-05-2008 01:42 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455181]Let me be clear. The title of this thread is not sarcastic. I want to praise these two men for what they have done in this off-season.

Everyone here knows that I have been more than slightly critical of these men in the past for their football decisions. Now I want to say they did something very good for the team. :goodjob:

Let me begin by defining what I mean by a "starter" in the NFL. A "starter" is someone who a team puts in a starting position on opening day. If that "starter" has a season ending injury early in the season - - say the second game - - and another player steps in and starts all or most of the rest of the games at that position, then that second player is also a "starter".

With that definition, I believe there are only two teams in the NFL who have not lost any of their "starters" in this off-season. Those two teams would be the Cleveland Browns and the Washington Redskins.

Continuity is important to a football team; the Redskins have not had a lot of that in recent years. Building on your team via the draft is important to a football team; the Redskins have not done that very well in recent years. :banghead:

But this year they have done it and so Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. :biggthump[/quote]

I think you're forgetting some rather important starters like your head coach and a defensive coordinator.

Losing them negates any of the hold over starters we have on the field.

I like our offseason moves and have no gripes with Danny and Vinny, but I'm not sure I want to be singing their praises just yet. I'd like to see what kind of product we put on the field this year and what we hold over going into next year.

...If Zorn stinks it up this year will he still be around if Cower wants to come back to coach? If we make another head coaching change next offseason I'll be ready to start building the gallows. So for now I'll save the praise.

Paintrain 07-05-2008 07:18 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;455206]I think you're forgetting some rather important starters like your head coach and a defensive coordinator.

Losing them negates any of the hold over starters we have on the field.

I like our offseason moves and have no gripes with Danny and Vinny, but I'm not sure I want to be singing their praises just yet. I'd like to see what kind of product we put on the field this year and what we hold over going into next year.

...If Zorn stinks it up this year will he still be around if Cower wants to come back to coach? If we make another head coaching change next offseason I'll be ready to start building the gallows. So for now I'll save the praise.[/QUOTE]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think losing the head coach and defensive coordinator are that huge of a deal when we are returning 22 starters from last year's playoff team, keeping the defensive scheme in tact and changing only half of the offense. As much as we all love and revere Gibbs and (most more than me) Grilliams, let's not forget the 6 blown 2nd half leads last year, including the playoffs.

While those ultimately fall on the players, G & G set the tone respectively for their sides of the ball. Grilliams defenses gave those games up. Gibbs/Saunders offense stopped attacking and let teams back into games.

The only way Cowher ever comes to Fed-Ex in the next few years is as an analyst or an opposing head coach. Snyder won't do a 'one and done' with Zorn unless we go 1-15.

Cowell 07-05-2008 10:12 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
I do give them a bit of praise. Snyder realized the coordinators he had were not going to cut it. Therefore he let them go, that sounds like a good call to me. Even if these next set of coaches don't pan out the last coordinators (especially on offense) weren't doing us any favors either.

And I too am thrilled that we didn't go out and blow huge money on a mediocre player(s). I think this year that actually had a plan going into the offseason and they seemed to have executed that plan to the best of their abilities (that meaning which players were available and what not). So, big time kudos to Danny and Vinny THIS year. Let's only hope this "making the team better" thing can continue.

Giantone 07-05-2008 11:31 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=GMScud;455199]Really? Like when he won a superbowl as head college scout in San Fran? Or when Notre Dame won a national title when he was head of recruiting? Yeah, the guy has no talent for sure and an awful track record.[/quote]

You need to look back at those two teams and see who else was there,but fine ...lets just go on his record ....with the Skins.

MTK 07-05-2008 11:42 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Giantone;455220]You need to look back at those two teams and see who else was there,but fine ...lets just go on his record ....with the Skins.[/quote]

In the past few years he's quietly done a pretty good job at stocking the team with some quality young talent through the draft and with undrafted free agents. Anthony Montgomery, Rocky McIntosh, Reed Doughty, Kedric Golston, H.B. Blades, Stephon Heyer, Chris Wilson, etc. I think Danny getting out of the way and giving Cerrato more power was the right thing to do.

sandtrapjack 07-05-2008 01:51 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
This is a "glass half empty/glass half full" subject.

There are those that will say the glass half full is that the optimism of a pretty good draft is showing that the team may now be building for the future through the draft. This is further solidified by the unusually "quiet" (By Snyder standards) Free Agent signing period.

Then there are those that say the glass is half empty, stating that the team did nothing in the off-season to address thier immediate needs.

That Guy 07-05-2008 03:04 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=sandtrapjack;455231]This is a "glass half empty/glass half full" subject.

There are those that will say the glass half full is that the optimism of a pretty good draft is showing that the team may now be building for the future through the draft. This is further solidified by the unusually "quiet" (By Snyder standards) Free Agent signing period.

Then there are those that say the glass is half empty, stating that the team did nothing in the off-season to address thier immediate needs.[/quote]

DE WR right? we tried for cj and got the 3 highest rated pass catcher in the draft, so... also covered safety with ss and drafted some warm bodies, got 3 quality OL depth prospects, and even got a couple DEs that won't do us all that much good.

steveo395 07-05-2008 05:50 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Yea this offseason has pretty much gone perfectly so far, but that could all change once the games start. But hopefully Zorn will be the man and Campbell will break out

skinsfan69 07-05-2008 06:31 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455181]Let me be clear. The title of this thread is not sarcastic. I want to praise these two men for what they have done in this off-season.

Everyone here knows that I have been more than slightly critical of these men in the past for their football decisions. Now I want to say they did something very good for the team. :goodjob:

Let me begin by defining what I mean by a "starter" in the NFL. A "starter" is someone who a team puts in a starting position on opening day. If that "starter" has a season ending injury early in the season - - say the second game - - and another player steps in and starts all or most of the rest of the games at that position, then that second player is also a "starter".

With that definition, I believe there are only two teams in the NFL who have not lost any of their "starters" in this off-season. Those two teams would be the Cleveland Browns and the Washington Redskins.

Continuity is important to a football team; the Redskins have not had a lot of that in recent years. Building on your team via the draft is important to a football team; the Redskins have not done that very well in recent years. :banghead:

But this year they have done it and so Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. :biggthump[/quote]

Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.

That Guy 07-05-2008 07:55 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=skinsfan69;455246]Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

[B] Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense[/B] you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.[/quote]

first, that's a mighty assumption right there, and second, he's played in a form of WCO in college.

third, what happens if cooley gets hurt?

fourth, you know who else they picked in the third round after he "played against scrubs"? his name's chris cooley.

redsk1 07-06-2008 08:36 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=skinsfan69;455246]Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.[/quote]

I'll disagree w/ you on the draft as i think we did a pretty good job this year. I'll also disagree on JC mastering Al Saunders O.

I do agree that i think getting rid of Gregg W. was a mistake and we may see the lack of overachieving on D this year. I hope not, but GW had a way of getting more w/ less. Blache...well we really don't know.

Regardless, if you like Al S. he is a proven commodity. You don't have top rated O's year after year if you don't know what you are doing. He knows what he's doing. Did he have all of the tools here? Was he undercut by Gibbs? Whatever the reason, it never panned out but it had only been 2 seasons. BTW, he was hamstrung by Gibbs.

As far as Vinny and Danny...wins and losses?

bertoskins2 07-06-2008 08:40 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
my kudos also it wa nice right now

memphisskin 07-06-2008 09:34 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
I think I sense some sarcasm, if only because its not like any of our stars were in jeopardy of leaving this offseason. So in actuality, Dan and Vinny are getting kudos for not doing anything, so it is a sarcastic post! Way to go SC!!!

But seriously, I'd really like to wait to see how the preseason plays out at least before congratulating or denigrating the efforts of DS and VC. Keeping a squad together with some considerable holes (DE, DT, S other than LaRon) that were not addressed on draft day or in free agency is not really a win to me. Did we get better by standing still?

Paintrain 07-06-2008 10:21 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[QUOTE=skinsfan69;455246]Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

[b][i]On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. [/b][/i]Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

rypper11 07-06-2008 10:41 AM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Paintrain;455263]Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.[/quote]


I think the best thing the FO did this year was going with Blache as DC. If he would have had any interest he would have gotten the HC position and done a great job. I am a fan of Grilliams but too many conflicting egos hurts even a good team. We'll have to rely on the defense for a year or two but if the offense can keep TO's to a minimum and score more than 13 points a game we should be competitive.

We'll see if they can keep the slow and steady approach after an 8-8 season and eradict play from the offense. I hope so.

Giantone 07-06-2008 07:04 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=skinsfan69;455246]Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.[/quote]


We have a winner here.

djnemo65 07-06-2008 07:23 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
I love how everyone complains when the team restructures the roster then complains when they don't, complains when they chase names then complains when they draft players from smaller schools whose competition in college wasn't tough enough, complains when they don't prepare for injuries with adequate depth then complains when they draft players at positions in which there is already an established starter.

We don't know how the season will turn out but the fact that they kept an entire playoff roster intact, while upgrading the talent level at several offensive positions through the draft, is unequivocally a good thing, and I think that is all SC was trying to say.

skinsfan69 07-06-2008 07:52 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=That Guy;455247]first, that's a mighty assumption right there, and second, he's played in a form of WCO in college.

third, what happens if cooley gets hurt?

fourth, you know who else they picked in the third round after he "played against scrubs"? his name's chris cooley.[/quote]

I heard JC on the radio say it himself. Plus look at some of the games. He was running that no huddle to perfection when conservative ass Gibbs actually let him do it. You have to look around in your own division. Is McNabb learning a new offense year after year after year? Nope. It just puts everyone back to square one when all the teams around you go into camp already knowing the playbook. Trust me. It's a pretty big deal. And it's not just the QB. The WR's have a learning curve too.

I'm just questioning the drafting of Davis. It could be a good move. But I'm not giving any kudos until the season starts. That's when we'll see. The guy was lazy as hell at USC, was always late to meetings and didn't work hard. Didn't put in the extra work to get better. But that was also said about A. Montgomery too so lets hope Davis learns to become a pro both on and off the field like AM has.

Cooley played at a division one school. Yes Utah State isn't the SEC but they do play Pac Ten teams. They do play good divison one competition.
Look, I'm not saying guys that that play at small schools can't play in the NFL. That's silly. But Reinhart was a 5th or 6th rounder on everyone's board. I hope he turns out to be a good player but the pick was questionable when we had so many other needs.

sportscurmudgeon 07-06-2008 07:56 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Folks:

The Skins' FO [B]supposedl[/B]y chased CJ to the point where they [B]supposedly[/B] offered a really big price for him.

That's conjecture. Here's a fact:


That deal never happened. I would not have been happy with a deal of the kind that was widely reported but I don't have to get my knickers in a knot over it because - - It ... never ... happened.


By the way, the Skins' FO may also have considered moving training camp this year to the Xygork Nebula. That would have been a bad idea. But they didn't to that either...

Will the off-season restraint shown by Danny Boy and Vinnie Boombatz assure the Skins of a Super Bowl slot? Of course not.

But I like the idea that there are so many players showing up at the beginning of training camp who have shown that they can actually perform on the field at the level of an NFL playoff team.

If you want to look at this from a negative perspective, the new coaching staff can obviously f*ck this up with incompetence or irrationality. The Redskins COULD be 6-10 this year; and if they are, you can point the finger at the guys on the sideline and in the coaches' booth - - because the players have shown they can perform at a higher level that that.

The Skins can also go 4-12 this year if the football gods decide to heap injuries on the team and make the ball bounce away from the Skins all season long.

But as the team goes into training camp with everyone as healthy and fit as one can expect them to be at this point in the calendar, the Skins' FO has done well by the players on the team. They have a [U]legitmate [/U]shot at the playoffs and a [U]legitimate[/U] shot at playing in the NFC title game. This isn't "fanboy talk"; the Skins can make this happen with a relatively injury-free season and some breaks along the way. I do NOT think the Skins are the best team in the NFC, but they are one of the teams "in the mix" to make it deep into the playoffs where anything can happen.

Are the Skins my pick for the NFC rep to the Super Bowl as of July 2008? No, they are not. But they are closer to being in the Super Bowl than they are to having a pick in the top five of the draft in 2009...

skinsfan69 07-06-2008 07:57 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Paintrain;455263]Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.[/quote]

We don't have any playmakers on the front 7. Yes we have solid guys but where are the guys that cause havoc? That's why we don't have turnovers and sacks.

And I'm not blaming the defesne for giving up leads when our offese got so conservative it's wasn't even funny.

skinsfan69 07-06-2008 08:01 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Giantone;455292]We have a winner here.[/quote]

I'm still shaking my head over the trade offer for Chad Johnson. Mike Brown is really stupid for not taking that deal.

sandtrapjack 07-06-2008 08:27 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=That Guy;455235]DE WR right? we tried for cj and got the 3 highest rated pass catcher in the draft, so... also covered safety with ss and drafted some warm bodies, got 3 quality OL depth prospects, and even got a couple DEs that won't do us all that much good.[/quote]

Rare is the rookie WR or DE that comes in their first year and is an impact player. Rare indeed.

sportscurmudgeon 07-06-2008 08:39 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

[B]Prediction: [/B]None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.

skinsfan69 07-06-2008 09:01 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=sandtrapjack;455305]Rare is the rookie WR or DE that comes in their first year and is an impact player. Rare indeed.[/quote]

Especially WR's. Outside of QB it takes them the longest to make an impact.

djnemo65 07-06-2008 09:24 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
I disagree with the notion that WR's are generally unable to impact their respective teams their first year. The issue with WR's is that their bust factor is high. Many highly drafted WR's don't contribute their first year, or second, or third. They lack the intelligence to grasp the precision required for the NFL and/or the maturity to devote themselves to their craft as professionals. Indeed, the nature of the position tends to attract the most immature athletes on a team.

However, recent history shows several players who have been able to make important contributions to their teams during their first season; Dwayne Bowe, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, Reggie Brown, Greg Jennings, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayon, Andre Johnson, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Antonio Bryant, Anquan Boldin, and Deion Branch are a few. For every Braylond Edwards or Javon Walker, who took a few years to mature, there seems to be two Troy Williamson's or Mike Williams', players who never adapted to the NFL. My point being that the issue with WR's is not the learning curve.

Thus, while expecting our rookies to notch 80 catches, 10 TD's and make the Probowl is probably not realistic, it is not out of the question for them to help out with 40-50 catches and a few scores. Don't forget, as SC pointed out, the guy these rookies are replacing never caught a TD in two years, so I am not willing to accept that they won't help us immediately.

redsk1 07-06-2008 09:36 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=Paintrain;455263]Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.[/quote]


I would put GW's bunch in the overachieving category in his years here. Look at our line, although some solid veterans, we plugged people in and they got the job done. The one year that our D didn't play as well, i heard an NFL scout on the radio say that our group has never been that talented and it just caught up to us...we'd maxed out our mediocre talent. The next year we were back in the top 10. I think alot of people undervalue what GW did here. Don't get me wrong i'm hoping for a great D this year, but I'm a little concerned. Blache doesn't have top 10 D's in his coaching past. His defenses have been middle of the pack.

Coff 07-06-2008 10:53 PM

re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
Whatever. I'll give them Kudos when they field a team that goes deep into the playoffs or has back to back playoff seasons; until then I'll recognize them as nothing more or less than two people who have been running a mediocre NFL team for nearly a decade.

SmootSmack 07-07-2008 02:08 AM

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[QUOTE=skinsfan69;455246]Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.[/QUOTE]

"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html[/url]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html[/url]

That Guy 07-07-2008 02:37 AM

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=SmootSmack;455362]"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html[/URL][/quote]

damn those infernal mods and their ability to use the search!

outlaw the search, and free our thoughts from the chains of continuity!

Paintrain 07-07-2008 08:20 AM

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[QUOTE=djnemo65;455315]I disagree with the notion that WR's are generally unable to impact their respective teams their first year. The issue with WR's is that their bust factor is high. Many highly drafted WR's don't contribute their first year, or second, or third. They lack the intelligence to grasp the precision required for the NFL and/or the maturity to devote themselves to their craft as professionals. Indeed, the nature of the position tends to attract the most immature athletes on a team.

However, recent history shows several players who have been able to make important contributions to their teams during their first season; Dwayne Bowe, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, Reggie Brown, Greg Jennings, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayon, Andre Johnson, Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Antonio Bryant, Anquan Boldin, and Deion Branch are a few. For every Braylond Edwards or Javon Walker, who took a few years to mature, there seems to be two Troy Williamson's or Mike Williams', players who never adapted to the NFL. My point being that the issue with WR's is not the learning curve.

Thus, while expecting our rookies to notch 80 catches, 10 TD's and make the Probowl is probably not realistic, it is not out of the question for them to help out with 40-50 catches and a few scores. Don't forget, as SC pointed out, the guy these rookies are replacing never caught a TD in two years, so I am not willing to accept that they won't help us immediately.[/QUOTE]

Great point.. Also, let's not act like we are counting on Thomas and Kelly to become the #1 threat at WR.. We have 2 solid options already in Cooley and Moss and an ok one in Randle-El.. They are going to be counted on to be situationally effective. Kelly will probably see a lot of time in the red zone, but maybe not before that. Thomas may be a "starter" by virtue of being in on 3 WR sets, but he'll likely be no better than the 3rd or 4th read on most plays. That's much different from most highly drafted WR who are expected to make a Randy Moss like impact from day one.

sandtrapjack 07-07-2008 08:38 AM

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455308]sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

[B]Prediction: [/B]None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.[/quote]
No disrespect intended. On the contrary, I think the way the off season as gone for Washington is a direction they should have gone 3 years ago.

Once you draft a potential franchise QB in Campbell, the next step should be drafting and surrounding him with a supporting cast. I think the additions Thomas and Kelly are a solid step in that direction.

If I were you I would table the Red Zone concerns for a while. Santana Moss is a speedy reciever and is great for getting a team from one 20 yard line to the other 20 yard line. But once in the Red Zone, speed does not help on a short field. This is where I think the addition of Kelly will "show it's teeth". He has the size to be a great red zone target. And with Cooley and Kelly (along with Portis) in the Red Zone, well lets just say I think that is a great combination of size and talent that makes the future very bright indeed.

No disrespect to Joe Gibbs, but his aversion to throwing the ball in the red zone is very well known. But with the West Coast offense now coming in place with Zorn, it is just the opposite. Campbell looks to be getting those supporting cast members in place. It may not be this year, but I think the 'Skins took a substatial leap forward this off-season.

skinsfan69 07-07-2008 09:22 AM

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 
[quote=SmootSmack;455362]"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html[/URL][/quote]

The thread is are we giving them kudos. I'm fine with the picks. Always have been. But I'm not ready to call these two Bill Pollian. To me, it's seems like a high risk, high reward draft.


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