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saden1 07-10-2008 01:20 AM

FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
Congratulations folks, [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/washington/10fisa.html?_r=1&oref=slogin"]we did it[/URL], all in the interest of national security of course.

p.s. Obama voted for it...I was wrong, he's just another wanker trying to get his.

saden1 07-10-2008 01:39 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
Oh and the really sad part of it all is that if you use Skype or any other VOIP technology that's encrypted they can't spy on you. Skype's communication channel is encrypted with a 256 bit key. What does that mean? It means you're pretty fucked unless the terrorist are absolute morons:

[QUOTE]A device that could check a billion billion (10^18) keys per second would require about 3x10^51 years to exhaust the 256 bit key space.[/QUOTE]

That Guy 07-10-2008 02:07 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
how retarded :/.

and the more both candidates talk, the more you realize it's all empty promises. neither one has put forth a legitimate method of paying for all the things that they say they want to do... just vague "we'll cut wasteful spending" type comments.

obama's changed his mind on iraq, mccain says he'll figure out how to balanced the budget, but that'll be hard unless he kills those tax cuts, which he has changed to a "small business tax cuts" position now, so maybe he's turning on that...

and they've both finally acknowledged that social security and medicare are broken (you can't balance the budget without doing something there), but i doubt it really turns into action in the near term, which is too bad.

dmek25 07-10-2008 07:42 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
how come people are ok with this? if Bush wanted to revoke gun owners rights, in the interest of national security, would that be all right?

cpayne5 07-10-2008 08:33 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[QUOTE=saden1;455907]Oh and the really sad part of it all is that if you use Skype or any other VOIP technology that's encrypted they can't spy on you. Skype's communication channel is encrypted with a 256 bit key. What does that mean? It means you're pretty fucked unless the terrorist are absolute morons:[/QUOTE]

Brute force isn't always needed. ;)

firstdown 07-10-2008 09:21 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
I just don't see how this will involve many people and I know it won't affect anything in my life. All it does is give them the power to tap people of interest that have or they suspect to have terrorist ties. We have to remember that these people want to kill us and if it helps capture a few of theses guys then the bill has surved its purpose. Its not like they are going to tap each and every American to see what and who they are talking to.

12thMan 07-10-2008 09:30 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=firstdown;455932]I just don't see how this will involve many people and I know it won't affect anything in my life. All it does is give them the power to tap people of interest that have or they suspect to have terrorist ties. We have to remember that these people want to kill us and if it helps capture a few of theses guys then the bill has surved its purpose. Its not like they are going to tap each and every American to see what and who they are talking to.[/quote]

Very reasonable response. I think people think this bill allows wire tapping whenever the governement has a hunch and it's just not so. This version, whether one likes it or not, does have some checks and balances, much more oversight from the courts and congress, which won't allow the White House to run free willie with the Constitution.

firstdown 07-10-2008 09:42 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=12thMan;455935]Very reasonable response. I think people think this bill allows wire tapping whenever the governement has a hunch and it's just not so. This version, whether one likes it or not, does have some checks and balances, much more oversight from the courts and congress, which won't allow the White House to run free willie with the Constitution.[/quote]
If I'm currect they can tap a suspect but then they have to get a court order or something like that to continue tapping that person. I just feel that this is a war that the terrorist are fighting from within so we have to give the goverment some powers to track them. Its not like they are taking up arms and saying hey lets have a war and fight this out. They will atack from within when ever they get the chance so we have to do what ever we can to stop them. I also think this should have been done behind closed doors with both parties working it out. The way it was done now makes it known to the terrorist that the goverment has the power to tap their comunications. We allready have made public to many of the ways we are fighting terrorist.

Miller101 07-10-2008 09:55 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[QUOTE=firstdown;455932]I just don't see how this will involve many people and I know it won't affect anything in my life. All it does is give them the power to tap people of interest that have or they suspect to have terrorist ties. We have to remember that these people want to kill us and if it helps capture a few of theses guys then the bill has surved its purpose. Its not like they are going to tap each and every American to see what and who they are talking to.[/QUOTE]

No offense but thats bullcrud! We had a system in place! It was called GET A COURT ORDER! They didn't get a court order. THEY BROKE THE LAW!! And now they have immunity for it. Its just bullcrud! The whole thing is bullcrud!

firstdown 07-10-2008 10:01 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=Miller101;455944]No offense but thats bullcrud! We had a system in place! It was called GET A COURT ORDER! They didn't get a court order. THEY BROKE THE LAW!! And now they have immunity for it. Its just bullcrud! The whole thing is bullcrud![/quote]
First off the President was using a law which gives him power to do things in a time of war. They used that as their way to tap people and some say he over reached and some said he was within his his powers. This judge said it was not illegal.

[url=http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/30/00303.shtml]FISA Judge: Bush Wiretapping Broke No Law[/url]

12thMan 07-10-2008 10:32 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=firstdown;455939]If I'm currect they can tap a suspect but then they have to get a court order or something like that to continue tapping that person. I just feel that this is a war that the terrorist are fighting from within so we have to give the goverment some powers to track them. Its not like they are taking up arms and saying hey lets have a war and fight this out. They will atack from within when ever they get the chance so we have to do what ever we can to stop them. I also think this should have been done behind closed doors with both parties working it out. The way it was done now makes it known to the terrorist that the goverment has the power to tap their comunications. We allready have made public to many of the ways we are fighting terrorist.[/quote]

Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.

saden1 07-10-2008 10:45 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=cpayne5;455921]Brute force isn't always needed. ;)[/quote]

The [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6098-2005Mar28.html"]alternatives[/URL] (dictionary attack and distributed net attack) are just as bad if the terrorist aren't [I]absolute morons[/I] (I know, that's an oxymoron) and they choose a strong 256-bit key.

Monkeydad 07-10-2008 10:47 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=dmek25;455915]how come people are ok with this? if Bush wanted to revoke gun owners rights, in the interest of national security, would that be all right?[/quote]

Are you calling al Qaeda?

Why are you so worried?

cpayne5 07-10-2008 11:09 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[QUOTE=saden1;455953]The [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6098-2005Mar28.html"]alternatives[/URL] (dictionary attack and distributed net attack) are just as bad if the terrorist aren't [I]absolute morons[/I] (I know, that's an oxymoron) and they choose a strong 256-bit key.[/QUOTE]

Nope, dictionary and distributed brute force is not what I was implying.

firstdown 07-10-2008 11:26 AM

Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed
 
[quote=12thMan;455951]Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.[/quote]
Well Obama voted for the bill and if he thinks he is going to win the White House maybe he realized that he too will need this to fight terrorist.


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