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Hog1 08-14-2008 11:12 AM

Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
One of failure in which his lack of a Superbowl will dominate any achievement?
Moderately successful, characterized by two playoff seasons, in spite of some............substancial situations encountered along the way (ex ST's early departure form earth, etc)?
One that is still playing out as this is still basically his team, and may be molded in his image for some time to come as he tutored The Dan, and Vinny in the ways of The Force (which we are realizing today)?

jdlea 08-14-2008 11:21 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
I think it's somewhere in between the second and third one you have listed. Joe Gibbs restored stability to this franchise. I was a pretty big critic of Gibbs during his tenure, I always respected his first stint, but to me, he was a new coach when he came back. Joe may not have delivered a Super Bowl, but he did deliver a team who is poised, with a little more guidance to become a pretty good one for a long time.

I don't know whether Snyder matured as an owner because of Gibbs or not, but the approach taken this offseason was refreshing and I was glad to see it. If we credit Gibbs with that, then his second tenure was an overwhelming success. He single handedly changed the culture of the Washington Redskins.

Regardless of his W-L record, he restored order to a franchise that was becoming an embarassment.

steveo395 08-14-2008 11:25 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
If Jason Campbell turns out to be our franchise quarterback, then he pretty much saved the franchise

Ruhskins 08-14-2008 11:28 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[QUOTE=steveo395;464368]If Jason Campbell turns out to be our franchise quarterback, then he pretty much saved the franchise[/QUOTE]

Too bad Gibbs never gave any of the newbie QBs (Ramsey and Campbell) any chance to start. Granted, Ramsey is probably a dud, but Gibbs should have never put his faith on #8. He should've put JC in as soon as #8 screwed up, and help him develop.

Honestly, to me Joe 2 would be "should've, could've, would've".

Monkeydad 08-14-2008 11:42 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[quote=steveo395;464368]If Jason Campbell turns out to be our franchise quarterback, then he pretty much saved the franchise[/quote]

Even without Campbell's success, he already saved the franchise.

The years without him were PAINFUL and a little embarrassing.

Have you noticed how much smarter Snyder and his staff have become at assessing players and football decisions in general since Gibbs came back?

Snyder went from being a good businessman and horrible football owner to being one of the better all-around owners in the league.


Gibbs returned our pride in our team and brought us back to the relevancy in the NFL we've always known but temporarily lost.

SmootSmack 08-14-2008 11:44 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[QUOTE=jdlea;464362]I think it's somewhere in between the second and third one you have listed. Joe Gibbs restored stability to this franchise. I was a pretty big critic of Gibbs during his tenure, I always respected his first stint, but to me, he was a new coach when he came back. Joe may not have delivered a Super Bowl, but he did deliver a team who is poised, with a little more guidance to become a pretty good one for a long time.

I don't know whether Snyder matured as an owner because of Gibbs or not, but the approach taken this offseason was refreshing and I was glad to see it. If we credit Gibbs with that, then his second tenure was an overwhelming success. He single handedly changed the culture of the Washington Redskins.

Regardless of his W-L record, he restored order to a franchise that was becoming an embarassment.[/QUOTE]

What he said (except I wasn't a big critic)

mooby 08-14-2008 11:46 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
I'd say he did moderately successful as head coach during his second tenure, but his real impact came by reshaping the roster into something formidable by getting rid of mostly everyone that Spurrier brought in. He brought us back to respectability in the NFL, and he set up Jim Zorn for future success with the roster. No we're not one of the elite teams in the league but he set us up so that in the future we can be.

skinsguy 08-14-2008 11:53 AM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
I think people may not realize just what Gibbs did for this franchise in this second tenure. I realize a lot of it didn't necessarily convert to a lot of wins on the field, but he certainly put Jim Zorn in a great position to have the best opportunity to succeed.

If anything, I think Gibbs being here in his second tenure gave Redskins fans a reason to think more optimistically about the team.

XXVI 08-14-2008 12:40 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[quote=Ruhskins;464376]Too bad Gibbs never gave any of the newbie QBs (Ramsey and Campbell) any chance to start. Granted, Ramsey is probably a dud, but Gibbs should have never put his faith on #8. He should've put JC in as soon as #8 screwed up, and help him develop.

Honestly, to me Joe 2 would be "should've, could've, would've".[/quote]


He did give Ramsey a chance. He stunk it up. Remember that 80 yard TD pass to Moss during year one? After that, Ramsey fell apart.

jgalecpa 08-14-2008 01:36 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[quote=Buster;464390]Even without Campbell's success, he already saved the franchise.

The years without him were PAINFUL and a little embarrassing.

Have you noticed how much smarter Snyder and his staff have become at assessing players and football decisions in general since Gibbs came back?

Snyder went from being a good businessman and horrible football owner to being one of the better all-around owners in the league.


Gibbs returned our pride in our team and brought us back to the relevancy in the NFL we've always known but temporarily lost.[/quote]

For me, the most noticeable achievement is the before and after JGII:

Before he came we had been in the playoffs ONCE in about 12 years, a rate of 8.125%

After he comes we are in them 2 of four years- 50%.

I agree that the biggest long term influence is on the transformation of Snyder and Cerrato into competent professionals in their NFL roles.

Snyder is a different owner than he was five years ago. For the beter.

J-Dawg

Stacks42 08-14-2008 01:45 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
Im a Gibbs fan, but his record speaks for itself.
1. He won less than 50% of his games in 4 years.
2. Won 1 of 3 playoff games, and you can chalk most of that up to the D.
3. He (the skins) spent a ton of money on players and coaches.
4. He couldnt drop Brunell, when he was hurting the team.
5. Couldnt put together a team that didnt have a bunch of motion penalties, false starts, and delay of games.

If this were any other coach, everyone would say that he was garbage. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and he didnt do much the second time around. But heck, he had a team that fought thier guts out.

redsk1 08-14-2008 01:49 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[quote=XXVI;464432]He did give Ramsey a chance. He stunk it up. Remember that 80 yard TD pass to Moss during year one? After that, Ramsey fell apart.[/quote]

I'm no Ramsey apologist, but i think Ramsey was replaced at the start of the 2nd half of the 1st game of JGll.

I think it would have been the right decision if the guy who replaced him wasn't named Mark Brunell. Neither could play so i guess it doesn't matter.

Stacks42 08-14-2008 01:50 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
JLC pretty much sums up my feelings. Am I really that bitter?
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/framing_the_past_to_evaluate_t.html#more]Framing the Past to Evaluate the Future - Redskins Insider[/url]

redsk1 08-14-2008 01:51 PM

Re: Joe2 Legacy2 will be?
 
[quote=Stacks42;464457]Im a Gibbs fan, but his record speaks for itself.
1. He won less than 50% of his games in 4 years.
2. Won 1 of 3 playoff games, and you can chalk most of that up to the D.
3. He (the skins) spent a ton of money on players and coaches.
4. He couldnt drop Brunell, when he was hurting the team.
5. Couldnt put together a team that didnt have a bunch of motion penalties, false starts, and delay of games.

If this were any other coach, everyone would say that he was garbage. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and he didnt do much the second time around. But heck, he had a team that fought thier guts out.[/quote]

While i agree w/ alot of what you said, IF we have a nucleus that sticks around a couple of years and is successful I think JG's term here will be viewed more positively.


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