Counter Trey
 

For those of you who either aren't old enough to remember or you just became a fan. Here is the Gibb's bread and butter play. This WP article gives the perfect description of it:

[B]Though the Redskins kept their offense mostly simple in preseason games this summer, Gibbs already has employed some of the classic plays in his arsenal.

They included the counter trey, once the Redskins' signature running play that Gibbs implemented his first season and used for years to take advantage of his gifted and mobile offensive line, then as now coached by Joe Bugel. In the counter trey, Bostic, the center, right guard Mark May and right tackle George Starke would block to the left, giving the appearance of a run to the left. Left guard Russ Grimm and left tackle Joe Jacoby would then pull out from their positions and head around the right corner and down the field looking for linebackers and defensive backs to flatten.

The running back would take a step to the left to draw the defense to that side, then take a handoff from the quarterback and head right behind Grimm and Jacoby, with defenders often scattered like so many bowling pins along the way. [/B]




Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great!

A true staple of any decent running offense nowadays. It is suceptible to athletic and fast LBS who can blow around the weak side and the center. Guys like Arrington eat a counter trey up if it isn't run perfectly. Luckily he's on our team.

Thats why it takes a guy like Gibbs to run the play well. He demands perfection!

yeah we have to be wary. LBs have certainly gotten a lot faster since those days, and I think linemen have only gotten bigger and slower. there will be some teams you just can't do this to depending on who's lined up at LB

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great![/QUOTE]
Imagine to if Thomas played next to Samuels. The Counter to the right works with Samuels and Dockery pulling. To the left you will see Thomas and Jones pulling. This is the counter.

the problem is that thomas and samules wont be pulling becuase they play on opposite sites. It will be fat ass dockery and Samuels... Or fast Thomas and Jones (who I dont know much about his speed).

[QUOTE=CRT3]Imagine to if Thomas played next to Samuels. The Counter to the right works with Samuels and Dockery pulling. To the left you will see Thomas and Jones pulling. This is the counter.[/QUOTE]


My bad......

Portis and the counter trey
 

The counter trey worked so great b/c riggins and other backs, like byner, had some speed, but not too fast to beat his blockers around the end. Portis on the other hand is a quicker and looking to hit that corner quickly. I think Portis may have a small problem at first, but once he realizes to wait and follow his blockers he will have more success.

[QUOTE=im4skins]The counter trey worked so great b/c riggins and other backs, like byner, had some speed, but not too fast to beat his blockers around the end. Portis on the other hand is a quicker and looking to hit that corner quickly. I think Portis may have a small problem at first, but once he realizes to wait and follow his blockers he will have more success.[/QUOTE]

he showed some problems with this exactly in the preseason. Denver uses a spread that opens holes naturally by design but the trey and Gibbs' other basic runs are generally blow 'em open type plays that require strength and technique on the part of the blockers. In essense the holes are generated by the blockers rather than by the design of the play. Portis may have early issues trying to hit a hole when it wont always materialize in the same place or at the same time. It takes patience which will need to be learned.

I saw that Portis had trouble early reading the hole on this play early, but in the Miami game you could see the light bulb really come on. I think all the early debate centered on Riggins running the play with power, but Portis' speed adds a new dimension altogether. Once Portis gets in the secondary he excels at finishing runs. Just look at his Denver highlights, once he gets past the linebackers he is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive.

The key to the run offense of Gibbs is to gain 6-8 yards a run. Eats up clock and gains yardage so as not to put them in 3rd and long. I saw the comment that Portis might be to quick. While I agree but also Joe Washington use to be incredible and he was alot quicker then Portis.

I don't know!!
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]The key to the run offense of Gibbs is to gain 6-8 yards a run. Eats up clock and gains yardage so as not to put them in 3rd and long. I saw the comment that Portis might be to quick. While I agree but also Joe Washington use to be incredible and he was alot quicker then Portis.[/QUOTE]


Joe W. was such a little guy, he had to pick'em up & put'em down faster, but C. Portis covers more ground with a single step!

[QUOTE=FRPLG]A true staple of any decent running offense nowadays. It is suceptible to athletic and fast LBS who can blow around the weak side and the center. Guys like Arrington eat a counter trey up if it isn't run perfectly. Luckily he's on our team.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=illdefined]yeah we have to be wary. LBs have certainly gotten a lot faster since those days, and I think linemen have only gotten bigger and slower. there will be some teams you just can't do this to depending on who's lined up at LB[/QUOTE]

It's common knowledge that the way to stop the counter-trey is to get penetration quickly and knock out the pulling linemen before they can get around the corner. There were still some fast linebackers in Gibbs' first stint -- and teams today still utilize some forms of running plays that involve pulling linemen, who have gotten faster too.

Bottom line is, if it's not working right, Gibbs will adjust and fix it.

nobody has ever run a better running play.riggins ran it better than anybody,but byner,riggs,ricky ervins,robert green,joe morris,joe washington,otis wonsley,brian mitchell,andra franklin,george rogers,everybody that was put back there ran it well because the blocking was there.from 1981-1992 the washington redskins lined up and
every team in the league knew they were gonna run 50 gut,counter trey,or right up the middle and nobody could stop them.

Portis doesn't need a ton of help to get by people. With blazing speed an obstruction could be enough to break Portis for a gain. If he's getting to the LBs he probably is averaging close to 4 YPC anyways, which I'll glady accept.

with gibbs formation shifts and motions, the opposing lbs will be confused long enough where the weak side lbs shouldnt be there in time. thats the whole point in his motion pkgs and form shifts. even though the counter takes longer to set up, lbs and dbs still have to wonder about gibbs favorite..... play action.

Here's what we want: Portis hitting the edge with Samuels out in front of him destroying the weakside LB/Safety. Don't worry: Portis will figure out how to exploit the play.

Re: Counter Trey
 

SUPER BOWL XXII: Redskins-Broncos (EXERPTS):

"Joe asked me, 'What do you think, Buges?' " said Bugel after the game. "Breaux and I both said, 'Don't give up on the Counter.' They'd been playing a stunting type of defense, a guessing defense, and they'd guessed right in the first quarter and given us a couple of minuses on that play. Against stunting defenses like the Broncos use you have to pull your guard and the tackle to the opposite side. It's a precision play, and when the timing's a little off, well, it can look ugly. Maybe in the first quarter we were a little overanxious, and the timing wasn't right. But Breaux and I both felt it would come."

Washington started its third drive of the quarter on its own 26. On first down Clark curled inside for a 16-yard reception. "It was a cover-three zone," he said. "They were laying back. There was a big hole. Maybe it was because they'd been burned already. "The next play was Smith's biggie, 58 yards for a touchdown on the Counter over the right side, with Jacoby and McKenzie pulling and tight ends Didier and Don Warren cutting off the pursuit. "It seemed like it was going to be a tight squeeze," said Smith. "I had to take it inside. I don't know, it just popped."

Smith had run for only 126 yards during the regular season but had gained 66 and 72 yards, respectively, in Washington's two previous postseason games. He was a surprise starter, at least to the 73,302 fans in the stands and to the 45 Broncos on the sideline who saw George Rogers introduced with the Redskins' offense. Gibbs said he had decided to start Smith on Saturday night. He thought the Broncos would be pinching inside and he wanted someone speedier than Rogers in the lineup.

"We told Smith he was starting right before the kickoff," said Bugel. "He took it very calmly. We told him we were going to run outside at the beginning and we wanted him in there for five or six plays. We didn't tell him earlier because we didn't want to make him nervous. We didn't want the guy vomiting in the locker room, like we'd have to throw a smoke bomb to get him out on the field."

Smith's 58-yard TD put Washington ahead 21-10, and the Broncos were in shock. On the sideline the Redskins linemen were telling Bugel to keep calling the Counter. "The Broncos were playing a variety of Buddy Ryan's Bear defense, where they line up men over both guards and the center," said Bugel. "So we went to a counterattack. If you hit it right against that defense, you can break something big."

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=Redskins_P;30009]For those of you who either aren't old enough to remember or you just became a fan. Here is the Gibb's bread and butter play. This WP article gives the perfect description of it:

[B]Though the Redskins kept their offense mostly simple in preseason games this summer, Gibbs already has employed some of the classic plays in his arsenal.

They included the counter trey, once the Redskins' signature running play that Gibbs implemented his first season and used for years to take advantage of his gifted and mobile offensive line, then as now coached by Joe Bugel. In the counter trey, Bostic, the center, right guard Mark May and right tackle George Starke would block to the left, giving the appearance of a run to the left. Left guard Russ Grimm and left tackle Joe Jacoby would then pull out from their positions and head around the right corner and down the field looking for linebackers and defensive backs to flatten.

The running back would take a step to the left to draw the defense to that side, then take a handoff from the quarterback and head right behind Grimm and Jacoby, with defenders often scattered like so many bowling pins along the way. [/B]




Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great![/quote]

Just for the record RP the tackles go in reverse order. G. Stark was a L/T and J. Jacoby was a R/T.....not that it really matters now.

Re: Counter Trey
 

Lol, wow! This is the bump to end all bumps.

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;720549]Lol, wow! This is the bump to end all bumps.[/quote]

Yeah!! I know DB. I don't know why I even bothered to revisit this thread. I just found it rather odd that RP had the entire line rearranged, including Grimm and May. The only player on that line he had positioned correctly was Bostic.

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=Longtimefan;720545]Just for the record RP the tackles go in reverse order. G. Stark was a L/T and J. Jacoby was a R/T.....not that it really matters now.[/quote]Actually, Jacoby was the Skins starting LT at the beginning of Gibbs 1.0, until the Skins acquired Jim Lachey in the Jay Schroeder trade before the '88 season. Only then did Jacoby move over to RT. George Starke was the starting RT in Gibbs' first few seasons, and he was the first of the Hogs to be replaced.

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=Longtimefan;720552]Yeah!! I know DB. I don't know why I even bothered to revisit this thread. I just found it rather odd that RP had the entire line rearranged, including Grimm and May. The only player on that line he had positioned correctly was Bostic.[/quote]Check out this link for Super Bowl XVIII, and scroll down to the starting lineups

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198401220rai.htm]Washington Redskins vs. Los Angeles Raiders - January 22nd, 1984 | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

from left to right, the Skins starting OL was:

LT Jacoby
LG Grimm
C Bostic
RG May
RT Starke

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=SouperMeister;720553]Actually, Jacoby was the Skins starting LT at the beginning of Gibbs 1.0, until the Skins acquired Jim Lachey in the Jay Schroeder trade before the '88 season. Only then did Jacoby move over to RT. George Starke was the starting RT in Gibbs' first few seasons, and he was the first of the Hogs to be replaced.[/quote]

If we're talking about the origional Hogs: Starke/May/Bostic/Grimm/Jacoby from left to right.

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=Longtimefan;720556]If we're talking about the origional Hogs: Starke/May/Bostic/Grimm/Jacoby from left to right.[/quote]All I know is, Big Jake started at LT in Super Bowls XVII and XVIII and Starke started at RT. Grimm started at LG in both. Jacoby and Grimm pulling on the counter trey is the quintessential Hogs play in my mind.

Re: Counter Trey
 

Dumping a thread this old makes me wonder how big TWP's database is...

Re: Counter Trey
 

[quote=SouperMeister;720554]Check out this link for Super Bowl XVIII, and scroll down to the starting lineups

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198401220rai.htm]Washington Redskins vs. Los Angeles Raiders - January 22nd, 1984 | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

from left to right, the Skins starting OL was:

LT Jacoby
LG Grimm
C Bostic
RG May
RT Starke[/quote]

Correct.

Re: Counter Trey
 

I thought this would be a thread about Shanny using the play.

He may actually even if he doesn't call it the CT, he loves the pulling linemen.

Re: Counter Trey
 

Coach Shanahan HAD the Counter in his Denver playbook. How much he uses it with Skins remains to be seen.