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-   -   Police Execution? (http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/27691-police-execution.html)

saden1 01-06-2009 10:58 AM

Police Execution?
 
Is [URL="http://www.ktvu.com/news/18412851/detail.html#-"]this[/URL] an execution or a justifiable shooting? You be the judge:

[YT]IKy-WSZMklc[/YT]

mredskins 01-06-2009 11:20 AM

Re: Police Execution?
 
this is horrible! I wonder if the officer thought he was going for his teaser. I noticed cops wear their guns with the butt pointing behind and the teaser the butt is pointing forward.

If that guy they were arresting had no weapons this was an execution!

saden1 01-06-2009 11:25 AM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[quote=mredskins;518164]this is horrible! [B]I wonder if the officer thought he was going for his teaser[/B]. I noticed cops wear their guns with the butt pointing behind and the teaser the butt is pointing forward.

If that guy they were arresting had no weapons this was an execution![/quote]


I wonder if that's possible. Can you confuse teaser with a gun? I know we have a former Police Officer in the forum, maybe he can answer that.

dmek25 01-06-2009 12:13 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
there is no excuse for what happened. the guy was in custody, laying face down, handcuffed. why he would even have a gun pointed at him is a mystery

FRPLG 01-06-2009 12:21 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
I don't see how you confuse the two. I mean I guess you could grab one for the other but to draw it, point it and fire, especially based on the video, would be basically impossible unless the guy just panicked. I wish we could hear more but seriously that was f'ed up. I think it is hard to be a police officer. You have to walk a very thin line between protecting yourself and those around you versus going overboard. Unfortunately I think the culture within that field gravitates towards over-reaction. I appreciate the jobs that police do but based on every single cop I have met and known I can't say there is one I have personally liked. I don't why that is but they all just seem like big a-holes to me. I am pretty biased against cops I guess. Am I crazy?

firstdown 01-06-2009 01:07 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[quote=dmek25;518175]there is no excuse for what happened. the guy was in custody, laying face down, handcuffed. why he would even have a gun pointed at him is a mystery[/quote]

The guy was not handcuffed at that point. It looks as the officer is trying to pull the mans arm out from under him and then steps back and fires. Did he think he saw a weapon? Who Knows but it almost looked that way as he pulled his arm out and stepped back. I'd hate to think he just backed off and fired but its just too hard to tell.

mredskins 01-06-2009 01:19 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[B]I appreciate the jobs that police do but based on every single cop I have met and known I can't say there is one I have personally liked. I don't why that is but they all just seem like big a-holes to me. I am pretty biased against cops I guess. Am I crazy?[/B]

I agree most are d*cks, they have this better then you type aura about them and my Grandfather was a 25 year vet of the Providence Police Dept. and he was a d*ck.

Basically I look at cops as Kevin James in Mall Cop, useless.

EternalEnigma21 01-06-2009 01:33 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
there is definitely a pretty big problem with the authority cops get in the us. i don't know if its the prerequisites and pay, or what but there's a certain personality type that gravitates toward that job, and then the seniors in positions at the departments generally promote a certain behavior that borders extreme and paranoia.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 01-06-2009 02:04 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[I]Absent additional facts[/I], it was a cold-blooded execution and the police officer should be facing murder charges.

As a general matter, let me say that police have a very dangerous job and the overwhelming majority of officers are honorable, competent, well-intentioned, and deserve our respect and thanks. However, I also think there are far too many police officers with poor character, who were motivated to become police officers for the wrong reasons, and who abuse their power. Worse still, I believe a significant minority of police officers are too quick to use physical or deadly force and, all too often, get off with a minor slap on the wirst.

FRPLG 01-06-2009 02:57 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;518227][I]Absent additional facts[/I], it was a cold-blooded execution and the police officer should be facing murder charges.

As a general matter, let me say that police have a very dangerous job and the overwhelming majority of officers are honorable, competent, well-intentioned, and deserve our respect and thanks. However, I also think there are far too many police officers with poor character, who were motivated to become police officers for the wrong reasons, and who abuse their power. Worse still, I believe a significant minority of police officers are too quick to use physical or deadly force and, all too often, get off with a minor slap on the wirst.[/quote]

I agree it should be be viewed as murder knowing what we know.

I am basing my thoughts on police officers on the signifcant amount of them that I know well enough to pass some informed judgement on their character and personality. I don't know why they become police officers. I would speculate that most do so out of honor and a sense of decency. I do know that the culture must instill into them a superior attitude because I, without even a hint of hyperbole, have never known one that I thought was a decent person overall. Everey single one I ever knew was at best just an a-hole towards non-officers. I know I am seriosuly generalizing and I can certainly admit that there has to be a good amount of decent and honrable police officers. I applaud most all cops, dicks and non-dicks, for putting their life on the line to protect us. I respect what they do a great deal. But I don't like them and I can certainly see where a second year cop with perhaps a little bit of panic in a hostile environment can draw a weapon, aim it and fire on an unprotected suspect. I think it's because they only see the bad in people always.

Daseal 01-06-2009 07:52 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
This is cold blooded murder. If the kid was squirming it was probably because of unnecessary pain he was put in. It was obvious he was against the wall and cooperating. Why not ask him to stand, put his hands behind his back, etc. Instead they just roll him over and start tugging.

CRedskinsRule 01-06-2009 08:56 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
:bump::bump::bump:I BUMPED THIS THREAD SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE LAST PAGE AND CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THERE,
THIS HAPPENED IN 2009, not NOV 2010

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;518227][B][I]Absent additional facts[/I][/B], it was a cold-blooded execution and the police officer should be facing murder charges.

As a general matter, let me say that police have a very dangerous job and the overwhelming majority of officers are honorable, competent, well-intentioned, and deserve our respect and thanks. However, I also think there are far too many police officers with poor character, who were motivated to become police officers for the wrong reasons, and who abuse their power. Worse still, I believe a significant minority of police officers are too quick to use physical or deadly force and, all too often, get off with a minor slap on the wirst.[/quote]

I agree with this whole post. But it is key to say "absent additional facts". In neither video can one see clearly what is happening, and if the victim is taking that long to be cuffed, I promise you he is not cooperating. There are many small dangerous items that he could have started to pull out that threatened these cops. Or it could have been the stupidest, coldest of murders. I doubt that this BART security guy had an intent before the wrestling started to execute a man on a public platform (where undoubtedly surveillance cameras are located as well as two shaky cell phone views, one of which does not show the shooting at all). And chances are he will lose his job, and probably go to jail, but its still awful hard to believe he just came to work hoping for a chance to kill.
Bottomline, I hope the truth (whichever way it falls) comes out, and justice is done(but I doubt that - again - whichever way it falls).

The Goat 01-06-2009 09:00 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
That, if it is how it looks, is just about the most appalling video i've ever watched. I mean that I don't see the kid really thrashing in a struggle - i think the criterion here is whether his behavior could cause death to the officers or a bystander, and it clearly looks as though he could not have - nor does it look like at anytime he reached for a weapon. Indeed if he did not even have a gun on him this is flat out murder.

I'm very derisive of police officers and wouldn't say more except that many have already made similar comments. IMHO all law enforcement officials should be held to the highest standard(s) and thus punishment should be just as sweeping. If that kid didn't have a gun the officer should be executed by a court of law (i want to say publicly executed but for all we know the meatheaded shitsack has a decent family...). The other officers should have stopped him from drawing his weapon and therefor should be fired and barred from ever serving again anywhere.

CRedskinsRule 01-06-2009 09:01 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[quote=Daseal;518381]This is cold blooded murder. If the kid was squirming it was probably because of unnecessary pain he was put in. It was obvious he was against the wall and cooperating. [B] Why not ask him to stand, put his hands behind his back, etc[/B]. Instead they just roll him over and start tugging.[/quote]

So you were there? you know what they told him to do? They had the others handcuffed, logic would say that somehow he was resisting that idea? Maybe when he raised his hands the first time, and was described by an onlooker as saying its ok, is actually when they first attempted to handcuff him, and he pulled his hands back and told the security guards to back off. I was not there, we don't hear the conversation, and clearly the girl was more sympathetic to the fighters than the guards. Go figure.

djnemo65 01-06-2009 09:26 PM

Re: Police Execution?
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;518409]So you were there? you know what they told him to do? They had the others handcuffed, logic would say that somehow he was resisting that idea? Maybe when he raised his hands the first time, and was described by an onlooker as saying its ok, is actually when they first attempted to handcuff him, and he pulled his hands back and told the security guards to back off. I was not there, we don't hear the conversation, and clearly the girl was more sympathetic to the fighters than the guards. Go figure.[/quote]

Well, all this may be true and the officer will have his opportunity in court to present any and all explanations. But police kill people a lot in this country, especially minorities, and I think it's sad that so often the burden of proof seems to fall on the guy that got killed. In this case, in which both a witness and a video strongly suggest excessive violence on the part of the police officer, your reaction is to give presumption to the officer, questioning the credibility of the witness and even the video itself.

I think this reaction is far too common - to assume that the victim must have been doing [I]something[/I] wrong - and it helps explain the shocking frequency with which police officers walk away from these types of incidents unpunished.


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