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-   -   OG and OC are bigger needs than OT (http://www.thewarpath.net/nfl-draft-central/27768-og-oc-bigger-needs-than-ot.html)

BigHairedAristocrat 01-09-2009 12:27 PM

OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
Yes, I know Jasnen is done, and yes, I know the chances of Heyer developing into a stud RT are slim to none. However, when you look back to the problems on our line this year, more often than ont, Campbell was getting pressured in the middle. OT is a need, for sure, but we can get by with Samuels on one side and Jansen/Heyer on the other for another year if we have an upgraded interior line. if we go with more 2TE sets, Cooley and Davis can always help our Tackles out by staying into block or just getting a quick block in before going out on a route. Having a solid interior line is a MUST.

Unfortunately, we need some help at all three Interior line positions. Pete Kendall was arguably our best lineman this year, but he is a free agent. Rabach is DONE. he's finished as a starter. Randy Thomas is done too, but unlike Rabach, he has a ridiculous cap figure. While cutting Rabach is fairly pain-free, Thomas is going to be on the roster for years to come... but that doesnt mean he should start.

Considering all our primary needs (OL, DL, and LB), free agency is where we should focus on fixing our defense. There arent many good, YOUNG offensive linemen available in free agency (and we should absolutely resign kendall) but our two primary OL needs can be addressed in the draft with our first two picks. Here is who i feel we should target, with the following information taken from [url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2009OG.php]WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Offensive Guard Rankings[/url]
[url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2009C.php]WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Center Rankings[/url]

[B]Round 1, Pick 13:[/B]
[quote]
[B]Duke Robinson, Oklahoma[/B]
Height: 6-5. Weight: 330.
Projected 40 Time: 5.28.
Projected Round (2009): Top 25 Pick.
1/8/09: Easily an AP All-America first-teamer, Duke Robinson was a monstrous force on a line that was part of one of the greatest offenses in history.

11/2/08: Still the elite guard in this class by a wide distance. [B]He could go in the top 15 if a team is desperate enough for a guard.[/B]
[/quote].
If he falls to us, we HAVE to take him. He would be an immediate starter who could shore up our LG spot for a decade.

[B]Round 3, Pick 77:[/B]
[quote]
[B]Eric Wood, Louisville [/B]
Height: 6-4. Weight: 306.
Projected 40 Time: 5.09.
Projected Round (2009): 3-4.
1/8/09: Eric Wood has made 49 consecutive starts. Crazy. He was voted to the All-Big East First Team.

5/26/08: You're getting a rock at center if you draft Eric Wood; he's started 37 consecutive games. He was voted to the All-Big East first team last year.
[/quote]

If we got these two guys, I see our line looking like this:

LT: Chris Samuels
LG: Duke Robinson
C: Wood
RG: Kendall
RT: Heyer

Our backups would be: Jansen(T), Rinehart (T/G), Thomas (G), and Geisinger (C).

At some point in 2009 and by 2010 at the latest, Rinehart should surplant Kendall at the RG position.

GTripp0012 01-09-2009 12:35 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
I do happen to agree with you on this one. Nothing the Redskins could run last year went between the Guards because Thomas and Rabach were awful. It's a bigger immediate need than OT.

If we don't add an OT in the draft this year, I have to imagine Jansen would stay at RT. He's not horrible, but he doesn't limit your playcalling like Heyer does. Heyer's pass protection form is well beyond his years, but he's still very, very raw and possibly not ready to start in the NFL, without serious improvement in the offseason. Jansen is meh, and great OLB/DE hybrids are going to kill him for the rest of his career, but he's fine if we can't upgrade the position with, say, Jordan Gross.

Jansen was our third best offensive lineman in 2008, so I don't really understand all the hate.

Mattyk 01-09-2009 12:38 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ.

GTripp0012 01-09-2009 12:41 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
It's hard to see Jansen not somewhere in the starting lineup with the heavy contract he has. We might bump him inside still, but I think he can still handle RT, if we put some decent players inside of him.

GMScud 01-09-2009 01:05 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:
[I]
"I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]"

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:

SC Skins Fan 01-09-2009 01:09 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=GMScud;519166]You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:

[I]I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:[/quote]

It said it on a Mock Draft website so it must be true. Those sites are gold!

KI Skins Fan 01-09-2009 01:11 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
I just don't see how we can fix our OL problems with two rookies.

I believe that we need to sign an OT in Free Agency. Our QB may be bothered by rushers coming up the middle but he's going to get killed by some edge rusher if we don't replace Jansen with someone who can start at RT now.

I strongly support the idea of drafting a couple of good OL prospects, as well.

BigHairedAristocrat 01-09-2009 01:19 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=GMScud;519166]You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:
[I]
I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:[/quote]


In principle, and as a general rule, guard is one of those positions where a guy who usually goes in the lower 1st round is not much better than a guy you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I was also basing it on a Ross Tucker SI.com article (about a year old) where he argued that guard was the least important OL position.

However, everywhere I went, people kept talking about duke robinson. duke robinson this. duke robinson that... so i actually checked the guy out. i was just ignorant of the fact that Duke Robinson is the next Hutch - one of the guys thats so far above his peers, he's worth taking that high. After thinking about it, all the elite Tackles are going to be gone by the time we pick at 13. Aaron Curry will probably be off the board too. Then i looked at who was availabe in free agency, and there are some good guards there, but no one that is both YOUNG and a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over what we have now.

So that, combined with my explaination earlier, is why I changed my mind. I'm officially on the Duke Robinson bandwagon if he's there when we pick at 13. Alot can - and will - happen between now and the draft. Its all too early to know what we will do - it all depends on how stupid Vinny is this offseason and what we do or do not do in free agency.

BigHairedAristocrat 01-09-2009 01:23 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=SC Skins Fan;519168]It said it on a Mock Draft website so it must be true. Those sites are gold![/quote]

I get your point. Everything is just speculation right now, but its not like we have anything better (skins-related) to talk about.

GMScud 01-09-2009 01:29 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519172]In principle, and as a general rule, guard is one of those positions where a guy who usually goes in the lower 1st round is not much better than a guy you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I was also basing it on a Ross Tucker SI.com article (about a year old) where he argued that guard was the least important OL position.

However, everywhere I went, people kept talking about duke robinson. duke robinson this. duke robinson that... so i actually checked the guy out. i was just ignorant of the fact that Duke Robinson is the next Hutch - one of the guys thats so far above his peers, he's worth taking that high. After thinking about it, all the elite Tackles are going to be gone by the time we pick at 13. Aaron Curry will probably be off the board too. Then i looked at who was availabe in free agency, and there are some good guards there, but no one that is both YOUNG and a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over what we have now.

So that, combined with my explaination earlier, is why I changed my mind. I'm officially on the Duke Robinson bandwagon if he's there when we pick at 13. Alot can - and will - happen between now and the draft. Its all too early to know what we will do - it all depends on how stupid Vinny is this offseason and what we do or do not do in free agency.[/quote]

Welcome. There's a reason people left and right have been touting Duke Robinson. Me and everyone else didn't pull his name out of a hat when suggesting he's worth a look in the 1st round.

One side note- he had a poor game last night against my Florida Gators - 3 costly penalties and was actually benched for a series. GO GATORS!

Trample the Elderly 01-09-2009 01:34 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
I've been on the Duke Bandwagon too. Are any of the offensive linemen from the Gators up for the draft? I don't think that I can say yay or nay on Duke over one game. It was the big game though and it has caused me some doubt. At one point they did take him out of the game but he did return. I was looking forward to seeing how Duke and Phil did but I must admit that I fell asleep during the first quarter and didn't wake up until the third?

Jake2008 01-09-2009 02:38 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=GTripp0012;519154]I do happen to agree with you on this one. Nothing the Redskins could run last year went between the Guards because Thomas and Rabach were awful. It's a bigger immediate need than OT.

If we don't add an OT in the draft this year, I have to imagine Jansen would stay at RT. He's not horrible, but he doesn't limit your playcalling like Heyer does. Heyer's pass protection form is well beyond his years, but he's still very, very raw and possibly not ready to start in the NFL, without serious improvement in the offseason. Jansen is meh, and great OLB/DE hybrids are going to kill him for the rest of his career, but he's fine if we can't upgrade the position with, say, Jordan Gross.

Jansen was our third best offensive lineman in 2008, so I don't really understand all the hate.[/quote]

Third on one of the crappiest offensive lines in the league is nothing to get excited about. We need a RT. Jansen is done at RT. He has no lateral mobility and is easily beat by anyone with average speed. And Heyer is not ready and there is no reason to believe at this point he will be a good RT.

And having a TE stay back to help is not the answer. This just limits the offense even more.

SouperMeister 01-09-2009 02:47 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
I'd like to see us trade down to add more picks. Excellent O linemen can be found in rounds 2 & 3 without reaching. Charlie Casserly drafted both Tre Johnson and John Jansen as 2nd rounders once upon a time.

GTripp0012 01-09-2009 02:52 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=Jake2008;519210]Third on one of the crappiest offensive lines in the league is nothing to get excited about. We need a RT. Jansen is done at RT. He has no lateral mobility and is easily beat by anyone with average speed. And Heyer is not ready and there is no reason to believe at this point he will be a good RT.

And having a TE stay back to help is not the answer. This just limits the offense even more.[/quote]Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.

Jake2008 01-09-2009 03:07 PM

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 
[quote=GTripp0012;519216]Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.[/quote]

I have zero faith in Vinny and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we drafted another receiver with the 13th pick.


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