Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[B][SIZE=3]FBI Arrests Two After Raiding Office of Obama's Pick for Information Officer[/SIZE][/B]


FBI agents have made two arrests after raiding the D.C. office of the man tapped to be President Obama's chief information officer, sources told FOX News.
The agents on Thursday morning raided the office of Vivek Kundra, who was leaving his post as the D.C. chief technology officer to join the administration. The investigation is related to allegations of corruption, one source said, but is not targeting Kundra.
FBI agents arrested a District of Columbia government worker, Yusuf Acar, as well as Sushil Bansal, who works for a company called Advanced Integrated Technologies Corp, sources said. Both are expected in court later Thursday.
FBI spokeswoman Lindsay Gotwin would not describe the nature of the probe.
"It's an ongoing law enforcement investigation," she said.
In a March 5 White House press release, the administration said it chose Kundra to be the federal chief information officer because of his "depth of experience in the technology arena and a commitment to lowering the cost of government operations to this position."
The chief information officer is responsible for overseeing federal technology spending.
[I]FOX News' Mike Levine and The Associated Press contributed to this report. [/I]

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

The guy picked to join the administration is not being targeted in the investigation. It says so right there in your post. So your thread title doesn't make sense in this case, although there is no doubt a lot of his appointees have been pretty bad.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=GMScud;536372]The guy picked to join the administration is not being targeted in the investigation. It says so right there in your post. So your thread title doesn't make sense in this case, although there is no doubt a lot of his appointees have been pretty bad.[/quote]

I was sitting at my dest on hold while reading the article and some how missed that in the article and noticed it after I posted the article. Even though he is not involved it seems eveyone he picks have something happen to them shortly after.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

can we give it a break?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

:doh: :doh:

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=dmek25;536379]can we give it a break?[/quote]

[size=4]no!!!!!!!!![/size]

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=firstdown;536397][SIZE=4]no!!!!!!!!![/SIZE][/quote]


Ok, weird.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

Here's the story that sends me over the edge:

[URL="http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44899"]CNSNews.com - Justice Dept. Investigates Arizona Sheriff for Enforcing Immigration Law[/URL]

[B]The Department of Justice (DOJ) has launched an investigation of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office in Arizona following requests by congressional Democrats and allegations by liberal activists that the department has violated the civil rights of illegal aliens.[/B]

[B]Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), and Robert Scott (D-Va.) requested the investigation, and activists groups such as National Day Laborer Organizer Network and ACORN launched petition drives and rallies in support of the probe.[/B]

[B]The investigation focuses on Sheriff Joe Arpaio and dozens of officers under his command who were trained through the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Agreements of Cooperation in Communities to Enhance Safety and Security (ACCESS), which partners federal and local law enforcement to enforce immigration laws. (The Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement division is known popularly as ICE.) [/B]


Now, I know Arpaio is a self promoter, but this is bullshit. The message is clear to local jurisdictions: if you don't want the justice department to hassle you, don't enforce the immigration laws. Don't even send your people for ICE training because we're investigating that as well. And why can four dopey congresspeople, all from states other than Arizona, get a local Sherriff investigated just by picking up the phone? Isn't that the sort of thing the Liberals were always accusing Karl Rove of? And, what the **** does Bobby Scott know about Maricopa County, Arizona?

Under the Obama Administaration you're free to break the law as long as you belong to an ethnic minority that consistently votes Democratic. The Justice Department is on the case. We should not be surprised, though, as this is the logical outcome of the corrupt Chicago mentality that is now running the executive branch. They take care of their friends, they screw their enemies (the domestic ones at least), and they know which is which.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=dmek25;536379]can we give it a break?[/quote]

Why should a break be given? I don't really understand that comment. No political appointees get to just avoid scrutiny or news headlines, especially not in DC where every thing is NEWS.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

At least he didn't appoint his cleaning lady...or Mike Brown.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;536407]Why should a break be given? I don't really understand that comment. No political appointees get to just avoid scrutiny or news headlines, especially not in DC where every thing is NEWS.[/quote]
We should not comment on anything Obama does because he is right on every thing and has become our new King. Its funny how he keeps signing all these Executive Orders and no one cares now that its the King is in office. Why should you question that he has added more dept to the nation in his short time in office then any other president. This man is slowly adding more power everyday to the goverment so he gains more and more power but please don't question that.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=firstdown;536421]We should not comment on anything Obama does because he is right on every thing and has become our new King. Its funny how he keeps signing all these Executive Orders and no one cares now that its the King is in office. Why should you question that he has added more dept to the nation in his short time in office then any other president. This man is slowly adding more power everyday to the goverment so he gains more and more power but please don't question that.[/quote]

...more debt than any other president? Ricockulous.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

If you're going to slam the guy let's at least make sure it's a valid story.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

[B]Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads,[/B] unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

As oppossed to all the rest of the threads that have deep implications for the very Universe we inhabit. I thought your threads about the OctoMom and the Rogue Tire were especially impactful. I know I'll never be the same.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=70Chip;536429]As oppossed to all the rest of the threads that have deep implications for the very Universe we inhabit. I thought your threads about the OctoMom and the Rogue Tire were especially impactful. I know I'll never be the same.[/quote]

Hey if the rogue tire thread didn't change you, then you just can't be changed!

My point is there are threads, such as the ones you mentioned, that are not intended to be anything but water cooler talk really. These threads, if they don't start as such, inevitably become "Look how awesome my party is, and look how horrible your party is"

But whatever, carry on

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. [B]If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge.[/B] Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

Uh, I'd be in there too ;)

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=smootsmack;536425]f....political threads. If mccain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with mccain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and i imagine buster will join soon) are "running things" now

nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like frplg chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey i'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey i'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

amen.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

My record is impeccable dog, don't tarnish it with your nonsensical digs.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

yeah, what he said :)

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

Thanks for that and I agree! I mean about nothing coming out of these things. I keep breaking my own rule to stay out of these darn threads though. No longer I say. I have come to think that the worst place in the world to "discuss" politics is online. No one is ever persuaded away from their positions and on a board like this, where community is important, it justs divides. I am sure I'll get stupid again and chime in when I shouldnb't but I am trying not to anymore.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536437]My record is impeccable dog, don't tarnish it with your nonsensical digs.[/quote]

How'd you manage to respond without a link at every other word?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=FRPLG;536495]Thanks for that and I agree! I mean about nothing coming out of these things. I keep breaking my own rule to stay out of these darn threads though. No longer I say. I have come to think that the worst place in the world to "discuss" politics is online. No one is ever persuaded away from their positions and on a board like this, where community is important, it justs divides. I am sure I'll get stupid again and chime in when I shouldnb't but I am trying not to anymore.[/quote]

Do you think dmek would ever have started this thread? If this was about some great thing accomplished by Obama, you think Buster would have started the thread? Not even remotely likely.

I will give credit to dmek though, in the "how low can it go" thread he at least acknowledged that there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides and that it's pointless to just continue to point fingers. Props to him for that

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536516]How'd you manage to respond without a link at every other word?[/quote]

I don't know which is worse, the fact that you think linking is bad or that anyone around here does [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergent_thinking"]original and divergent thought[/URL].

I miss SGG.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536517]Do you think dmek would ever have started this thread? If this was about some great thing accomplished by Obama, you think Buster would have started the thread? Not even remotely likely.

I will give credit to dmek though, in the "how low can it go" thread he at least acknowledged that there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides and that it's pointless to just continue to point fingers. Props to him for that[/quote]

The politcal environment in our country is, to me, the most dangerous threat our country is facing. Too many people in this country really have no principles. At least principles based on any real understanding of issues. I don't agree with saden almost ever but at least we know his opinions aren't just bandwagon bullcrap. He knows issues and bases his opinions on his principles. In fact a good amount of our regular politcal posters have a decent handle on issues. The fact that Obama was elected largely as back lash to Bush is damning. It had little to do with principle and more to do with popularity. That seems dangerous to me.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536517]Do you think dmek would ever have started this thread? If this was about some great thing accomplished by Obama, you think Buster would have started the thread? Not even remotely likely.

I will give credit to dmek though, in the "how low can it go" thread he at least acknowledged that there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides and that it's pointless to just continue to point fingers. Props to him for that[/quote]


Yeah. The How Low Can It Go thread is more of a model of what we need around here. It even got three stars. I'm not sure who started it, but you guys should check it out.

I just realized I'm missing Cramer and Liebowitz, but they will re-run it later.

Anyhoo, I think that the political junkies around here of both persuasions have been fairly restrained. I did start the thread taunting Olbermann for losing in the ratings to the hideously awful and insufferable Nancy Grace which bothered people for some reason. I thought Olbermann was despised by all but the damnedest of damned Lefties, but you would have thought I had taken a dump on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial with the negative reaction I got. At any rate, I think the Liberals are having fun being in charge again and most of the Conservatives are exhausted from defending Bush for all those years. So, short of a straight ban on political talk, I don't think you could really expect much more if political talk irritates you.

The story that started this thread is really a D.C. government corruption story more than an Obama story as far as I can tell. Although this Kundra that works at the White House has taken a leave of absence so who knows. I'm not sure if the D.C. government is the first place I would look for computer talent if I were Team Obama. Surely with all the excitement their campaign ginned up among tech savvy twenty somethings, there was some young guy or gal they could have lured from Silicon Valley.

BTW, as someone with a penchant for offending people without realizing it, I expect to be using the phrase, "You would have thought I had taken a dump on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial" quite a bit from now on. I'm pretty proud of it.

Speaking of the deft turn of phrase. 70Chip III came up with a good one last night. He was describing the panicked hunched over run-walk one performs when one is all alone in the house and realizes way too late that the toilet tissue dispenser is empty and the backup supply is all the way out in the garage: 'The Toilet Paper Shuffle". I just thought I'd share that.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=70Chip;536543]Yeah. The How Low Can It Go thread is more of a model of what we need around here. It even got three stars. I'm not sure who started it, but you guys should check it out.

I just realized I'm missing Cramer and Liebowitz, but they will re-run it later.

Anyhoo, I think that the political junkies around here of both persuasions have been fairly restrained. I did start the thread taunting Olbermann for losing in the ratings to the hideously awful and insufferable Nancy Grace which bothered people for some reason. I thought Olbermann was despised by all but the damnedest of damned Lefties, but you would have thought I had taken a dump on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial with the negative reaction I got. At any rate, I think the Liberals are having fun being in charge again and most of the Conservatives are exhausted from defending Bush for all those years. So, short of a straight ban on political talk, I don't think you could really expect much more if political talk irritates you.

The story that started this thread is really a D.C. government corruption story more than an Obama story as far as I can tell. Although this Kundra that works at the White House has taken a leave of absence so who knows. I'm not sure if the D.C. government is the first place I would look for computer talent if I were Team Obama. Surely with all the excitement their campaign ginned up among tech savvy twenty somethings, there was some young guy or gal they could have lured from Silicon Valley.
[B]
BTW, as someone with a penchant for offending people without realizing it, I expect to be using the phrase, "You would have thought I had taken a dump on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial" quite a bit from now on. I'm pretty proud of it[/B].[/quote]

That's a classic right there.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=FRPLG;536535]The politcal environment in our country is, to me, the most dangerous threat our country is facing. Too many people in this country really have no principles. At least principles based on any real understanding of issues. I don't agree with saden almost ever but at least we know his opinions aren't just bandwagon bullcrap. He knows issues and bases his opinions on his principles.[/quote]

I keep it real, it's all good if I disagree with you while you're keeping it real and vice versa.

[quote]In fact a good amount of our regular politcal posters have a decent handle on issues. [COLOR=DarkGreen][B] The fact that Obama was elected largely as back lash to Bush is damning.[/B][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=DarkRed]It had little to do with principle and more to do with popularity.[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=Black] That seems dangerous to me[/COLOR][COLOR=Black].[/COLOR][/quote]

Since we're keeping it real the same thing could be said and have been said about my boy Ronald Reagan. I mean, Obama does have policy ideas. You may not like his policies but I refuse to believe that 8,645,538 more people voted for him just because he's cool. Even if we suppose he won by popularity, would he still have won if we eliminate all those who didn't vote based on principles on both sides?

[B][COLOR=DarkGreen]Good[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkRed]Bad[/COLOR][/B]

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536554]I keep it real, it's all good if I disagree with you while you're keeping it real and vice versa.



Since we're keeping it real the same thing could be said and have been said about my boy Ronald Reagan. I mean, Obama does have policy ideas. You may not like his policies but I refuse to believe that 8,645,538 more people voted for him just because he's cool. [B]Even if we suppose he won by popularity, would he still have won if we eliminate all those who didn't vote based on principles on both sides?
[/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkGreen]Good[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkRed]Bad[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

Actually, it's possible. He ran the most savvy, technologically advanced campaign ever. He mobilized massive amounts of voters (many of whom otherwise wouldn't have given a sh*t), and image-wise was so anti-Bush, that I guarantee millions of Americans voted for him "just because."

I don't think McCain was a particularly great candidate, and Palin was a disaster. But I think Obama's celebrity played a huge part in his election.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536554]I keep it real, it's all good if I disagree with you while you're keeping it real and vice versa.



Since we're keeping it real the same thing could be said and have been said about my boy Ronald Reagan. I mean, Obama does have policy ideas. You may not like his policies but I refuse to believe that 8,645,538 more people voted for him just because he's cool. Even if we suppose he won by popularity, would he still have won if we eliminate all those who didn't vote based on principles on both sides?

[B][COLOR=DarkGreen]Good[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkRed]Bad[/COLOR][/B][/quote]


Speaking only anecdotally(sp?) I think very few people in our fair nation vote with any mind to what they are doing. It is largely a bandwagon/popularity contest based on likeability and the prevailing politcal winds. It works both ways without any doubt. I am guessing there are about 20% of the electorate on both sides of the politcal aisle voting on principle or just plain ideaology. Another 20% each way who "think" they vote on principle but couldn't give you a very strong argument for what those principles are and what they mean. And then 20% in the middle who vote because they like the guy/girl or "think it'd be cool" to have a black president(just an example). Well I think it'd be cool we have a black president too if I actually agreed with him on much but I'd never vote for someone just because of some completely irrelevant factor.

And if there were a real absolute way to measure I'd bet every penny to my name that 8,645,538 people voted for Obama just cause "he was cool". I'd also bet a good several million or more voted for McCain for similarly stupid reasons.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

If Albert Haynesworth had a dollar for every person that voted for Barack Obama based on likeability factor, he'd be...a Redskin?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536554]I keep it real, it's all good if I disagree with you while you're keeping it real and vice versa.



Since we're keeping it real the same thing could be said and have been said about my boy Ronald Reagan. I mean, Obama does have policy ideas. You may not like his policies but I refuse to believe that[B] 8,645,538 more people[/B] voted for him just because he's cool. Even if we suppose he won by popularity, would he still have won if we eliminate all those who didn't vote based on principles on both sides?

[B][COLOR=DarkGreen]Good[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkRed]Bad[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

yeah but if you take away the dead people from Illinois he only won by 7,645,539 ;)

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

I'll second that F

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=70Chip;536543]Yeah. The How Low Can It Go thread is more of a model of what we need around here. It even got three stars. I'm not sure who started it, but you guys should check it out.[/quote]

Yeah, the thread got off to a strong start, turned into the usual "it's your fault, no it's your fault" but seems to have gotten back on track. Credit to you on starting that thread

[quote] At any rate, I think the Liberals are having fun being in charge again and most of the Conservatives are exhausted from defending Bush for all those years. So, short of a straight ban on political talk, I don't think you could really expect much more if political talk irritates you.[/quote]

I guess that's what it is really. It's never really about let's discuss what's going on. It's more about "now it's our turn to bash" and maybe in 2012 it will go back to the other side.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

......

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536595]


I guess that's what it is really. It's never really about let's discuss what's going on. It's more about "now it's our turn to bash" and maybe in 2012 it will go back to the other side.[/quote]
how long until everyone gets sick of this, and starts working on real problems? i know im getting sick of all the little kid theatrics

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=FRPLG;536564]Speaking only anecdotally(sp?) I think very few people in our fair nation vote with any mind to what they are doing. It is largely a bandwagon/popularity contest based on likeability and the prevailing politcal winds. It works both ways without any doubt. I am guessing there are about 20% of the electorate on both sides of the politcal aisle voting on principle or just plain ideaology. Another 20% each way who "think" they vote on principle but couldn't give you a very strong argument for what those principles are and what they mean. And then 20% in the middle who vote because they like the guy/girl or "think it'd be cool" to have a black president(just an example). Well I think it'd be cool we have a black president too if I actually agreed with him on much but I'd never vote for someone just because of some completely irrelevant factor.

And if there were a real absolute way to measure I'd bet every penny to my name that 8,645,538 people voted for Obama just cause "he was cool". I'd also bet a good several million or more voted for McCain for similarly stupid reasons.[/quote]

Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536625]Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?[/quote]

Obama had rock-star celebrity status during his campaign. It was unprecedented, and there's no denying it. Sure every elected president has been popular, but Obama took it to a whole new level, and I'm sure it played a big part in his victory. During his campaign he represented the antithesis of the Bush Administration, of which the entire world had tired.

IMO he was elected because of his masterful campaign and celebrity status more so than his politics and principles. Since he went from campaigner in cheif to Commander in Cheif, his approval numbers have dipped quite a bit.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536586]I'll second that F[/quote]

Matty it seems not too long ago that you and Saden had a new thread every other day when Bush was in office but now its F political threads now that Obama is in office.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536625]Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?[/quote]
You can hear what you want. We all tend to. I'll grant you that popularity has always been a factor. I don't think I ever made a statement contrary. That doesn't make it right though. And I am not meaning to take a dump on Obama's election more than anyone else's. It simply is front and center right now.

Obama WAS elected because of popularity not principles. That isn't meant to deride his principles it is meant to deride the notion that this country is magiaclly leaning left all of a sudden. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but his election is neither proof nor disproof either way. Hell he ran on "Change"...basically a marketers quick and efficient way to say "I'm not Bush..that guy we all hate so much".

Obama's election is only an example. I guess my issues are far more general. I think our system is very fundamentally flawed. Is it better than others? Yeah but it isn't perfect or even close and it seems to be getting worse to me.

But now we are totally off subject.