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redsk1 03-20-2009 11:58 AM

6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29758543/page/2/]6 years later, Iraq better but still shaky - Invasion Iraq: Six Years Later- msnbc.com[/url]

Regardless of whether you believe we should be over there, it seems we've made some good strides over the last year. It's funny how we don't hear much about these strides though. I guess or horrendous economy has something to do about it.

70Chip 03-20-2009 01:34 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=redsk1;538542][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29758543/page/2/"]6 years later, Iraq better but still shaky - Invasion Iraq: Six Years Later- msnbc.com[/URL]

Regardless of whether you believe we should be over there, it seems we've made some good strides over the last year. It's funny how we don't hear much about these strides though. I guess or horrendous economy has something to do about it.[/quote]

Yes it is funny. The Iraq War went from being the "worst foreign policy blunder in American history" and "lost" to hardly worth mentioning in no time flat. The economy is part of the reason but it's not all of it. Let's see what the former head of the Nevada Gaming Comission has to say:

[yt]niPmXym7u3g&feature=related[/yt]

[yt]PR144kCjORc&feature=related[/yt]

dmek25 03-20-2009 01:56 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
cant we move on?

CRedskinsRule 03-20-2009 02:09 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=dmek25;538555]cant we move on?[/quote]

How about this, we file it away as a Bush win, and then in a year and half when Obama starts claiming it was his victory, we all agree that it was in fact a win for Bush. If Obama and the Democrats never bring it up, we all here agree not to either. Deal?

edit: I am also cool if we do the reverse for the economy, file it as a loss for Bush and the Dem Congress.

saden1 03-20-2009 02:29 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[URL="http://deliveriesgalore.com/2009/03/18/one-trillion-dollars/"]Have you ever wondered what one trillion dollars looks like?[/URL]

Mattyk 03-20-2009 02:33 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=saden1;538571][URL="http://deliveriesgalore.com/2009/03/18/one-trillion-dollars/"]Have you ever wondered what one trillion dollars looks like?[/URL][/quote]

wow that's pretty crazy

KLHJ2 03-20-2009 02:39 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
Cannot see the page...help

dmek25 03-20-2009 04:47 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;538560]How about this, we file it away as a Bush win, and then in a year and half when Obama starts claiming it was his victory, we all agree that it was in fact a win for Bush. If Obama and the Democrats never bring it up, we all here agree not to either. Deal?

edit: I am also cool if we do the reverse for the economy, file it as a loss for Bush and the Dem Congress.[/quote]
how about instead of saying its a Bush win, or an Obama win, we just say its a win for the United States?

CRedskinsRule 03-20-2009 06:27 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=dmek25;538633]how about instead of saying its a Bush win, or an Obama win, we just say its a win for the United States?[/quote]

simple, because politics do not work like that, and when re-election campaigns come around, the same person who said "lets set this aside will" will say peace came through my candidate. If we have a win now it should be noted that Bush's strategy worked. of course, Bush bashers would rather wait a year - year and a half and then let politicians make wildly false claims.
Let me ask you, if it is a US win, whose strategy brought about the win?

saden1 03-20-2009 06:32 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
Win? How about we start choosing our words more carefully?

Mattyk 03-20-2009 07:02 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
Yeah I have a hard time calling any war a win, especially this one. What happened to Mission Accomplished anyway?

[IMG]http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/images/mission-accomplished.jpg[/IMG]

CRedskinsRule 03-20-2009 07:06 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=saden1;538650]Win? How about we start choosing our words more carefully?[/quote]

I am content with my word. Simply put DMek said "can't we move on", which I replied "... call it a win..." . I did not say we did win as in a done deal, simply that if we are going to move on, then let's put the W in Bush's column since it was his plan/strategy that brought us to this point, and now at most it is like a 3rd string qb coming in to finish out the last 2 minutes in a game that is over, as opposed to a Save in baseball.
I tell you what again, let's give Bush the W in Iraq, and a No decision if Afghanistan, and if Obama gets Afghanistan under control he gets the Save.
But, and this is just what I believe, those who want to "just move on" now, will be the first to use a revisionist schtick in a year and a half, to proclaim Bush had failed and the war was won through Obama's presidency. And that just isn't the case.

-if you know me, i have a belief that both political parties spin fiction to reduce their liabilities. and i know that bush haters will not give him credit on anything (i don't give him credit on much), but the fact is that iraq is going to be a "win", and it was Bush's strategy that will have won it.

CRedskinsRule 03-20-2009 07:26 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=Mattyk72;538659]Yeah I[B] have a hard time calling any war a win,[/B] especially this one. What happened to Mission Accomplished anyway?
[/quote]
So the American Revolutionary War, was not a win?

World War II, not a win?

Sadly this war will probably be more of a WWI style win, because America, as is normal, is going to cut out before true stability takes place. The current government most likely will parallel the Weimar Republic, with a fanatical sect coming back into power once america backs out of the country, similar to the league of nations once america refused to join. It cost us around 4,000 good men and women, plus the 10's of thousands who were injured, and instead of honoring their sacrifices many mock Bush by asking "what happened to mission accomplished". Bush politicized that statement so he mocked it as well. But the sailors on that ship, had accomplished their mission, and our troops on the ground over there have toiled long and hard to make iraq a country where every sect can come to the political discussion without their wives and children being gassed or killed, so yes that is a win. In the noblest sense of American military(regardless of political mumbo jumbo) our soldiers gave their lives so that people in another part of the world could be free from tyranny, yes that is a win.

Beemnseven 03-20-2009 07:32 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;538661]So the American Revolutionary War, was not a win?

World War II, not a win?

Sadly this war will probably be more of a WWI style win, because America, as is normal, is going to cut out before true stability takes place. The current government most likely will parallel the Weimar Republic, with a fanatical sect coming back into power once america backs out of the country, similar to the league of nations once america refused to join. It cost us around 4,000 good men and women, plus the 10's of thousands who were injured, and instead of honoring their sacrifices many mock Bush by asking "what happened to mission accomplished". Bush politicized that statement so he mocked it as well. But the sailors on that ship, had accomplished their mission, and our troops on the ground over there have toiled long and hard to make iraq a country where every sect can come to the political discussion without their wives and children being gassed or killed, so yes that is a win. In the noblest sense of American military(regardless of political mumbo jumbo) [B]our soldiers gave their lives so that people in another part of the world could be free from tyranny, yes that is a win.[/B][/quote]

I wonder if the dead soldiers' families consider it a "win" ??

CRedskinsRule 03-20-2009 07:51 PM

Re: 6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky
 
[quote=Beemnseven;538662]I wonder if the dead soldiers' families consider it a "win" ??[/quote]
I served 5 years my friend, in the early 90's; if I had given my life, my family would have considered it a personal loss, but they would have known i joined with open eyes, and would have been proud of my contribution. No one forced me to join, and when i swore my oath, i did not say "but if i die it is a loss" I did not want to die, i did not even want to go to bosnia (and thankfully didn't, my unit left 1 month after i pcs'd to the states) but it was my duty, and one i would have done if called upon. to ask that question demeans our soldiers and their families. No one person will consider a lost life a win in any situation. If a man goes to jail, his family will consider it a loss, but if it upholds our country's laws it may very well have been a win. No one family, when focused on their child/sibling/parent will consider a death a win, but they may see the it as a part of a greater truth, and gain strength and peace in that vision.

My friend, every loss is tragic, 9-11 was tragic, the kurds who were tossed in the mass graves were tragic, our soldiers sacrifice is tragic, but if in the end a government is formed that prevents any more mass grave, allows free participation in the political process, and provides for stability in the region then our families will look on their personal tragedy with a belief that it was not in vain.


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