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Mattyk 05-26-2009 02:15 PM

Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
Interesting...

[url=http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Mancow-Takes-on-Waterboarding-and-Loses.html]Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture | NBC Chicago[/url]

saden1 05-26-2009 02:26 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
I think at this point people aught to know it's torture. My co-worker recently stated his position eloquently..."I know it's torture and I don't care if we torture the SOBs. I'm all for torture."

Schneed10 05-26-2009 02:34 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=saden1;559634]I think at this point people aught to know it's torture. My co-worker recently stated his position eloquently..."I know it's torture and I don't care if we torture the SOBs. I'm all for torture."[/quote]

Reflects my feelings to a T. Hell, pull their fingernails off one by one for all I care. Do whatever it takes.

firstdown 05-26-2009 02:40 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=Schneed10;559636]Reflects my feelings to a T. Hell, pull their fingernails off one by one for all I care. Do whatever it takes.[/quote]
Well we pretty much agree on this.

FRPLG 05-26-2009 02:45 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
I don't know that I agree...there's a reason we don't torture. Seems pretty slippery to me that it's ok to torture in some situations but not others.

firstdown 05-26-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=FRPLG;559640]I don't know that I agree...there's a reason we don't torture. Seems pretty slippery to me that it's ok to torture in some situations but not others.[/quote]
Well when you start flying planes into buildings killing as many US citizens as you can then all bets are off.

Trample the Elderly 05-26-2009 03:01 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
Water-boarding isn't torture. Give me a chainsaw and a blow-torch and I'll show you torture.

dmek25 05-26-2009 03:24 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?

Slingin Sammy 33 05-26-2009 03:31 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
I'm with Schneed and Al Gore (while he was VP, see below), no problem with waterboarding these animals. Let's put this into perspective.

Only three high-level Al Qeada operatives were waterboarded:
KSM - Planner of 9/11, involved in WTC bombing, Bali nightblub bombings, beheaded Daniel Pearl
Abu Zubaydah - East African embassy bombings # 2 in Al Qeada, 25% of HUMINT obtained on Al Qeada come through or becasue of interrogation of Zubaydah
Al-Nashiri - Responsible for bombing of USS Cole, Limburg tanker bombing, Chief of Operations for Arabian Peninsula for Al Qeada

These pieces of s**t would torture any of us in the worst way, rape our wives/girlfriends, and then kill us all and believe their god will reward them for it. They declared war on us. Destroying Al Qeada and saving lives in the U.S. and abroad takes any precedence over a waterboarding/torture debate.

These are not enemy soldiers for another country. They are not covered under the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists, they exist to kill anyone who opposes them or their agenda. Do you think for one second if they had the ability to nuke the U.S. that they wouldn't? Do you think for a second if they had the power to take over/destroy the U.S. they wouldn't.

Not a lot I agreed with Clinton and Gore on, but Gore certainly had this one correct.

According to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_administration"][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton administration[/COLOR][/URL] official [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke"][COLOR=#0000ff]Richard Clarke[/COLOR][/URL]:
“[SIZE=2]'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Cutler"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Lloyd Cutler[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2], demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] had seemed to be siding with Cutler until [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Al Gore[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]South Africa[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2]. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. [B]Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'"[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0000ff][20][/COLOR][/URL][/SIZE]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition"]Extraordinary rendition by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Clinton authorized this:
Talaat Fouad Qassem, 38, a known leader of the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group), an Egyptian extremist organization, is arrested and detained in Croatia as he travels to Bosnia from Denmark, where he has been been living after being granted political asylum. He is suspected of clandestine support of terrorist operations, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a022693wtcbombing"][COLOR=#0000ff]February 26, 1993[/COLOR][/URL]). He also allegedly led mujaheddin efforts in Bosnia since 1990 (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a90qassembosnia"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990[/COLOR][/URL]). In a joint operation, he is arrested by Croatian intelligence agents and handed over to the CIA. Qassem is then interrogated by US officials aboard a US ship off the Croatian coast in the Adriatic Sea and sent to Egypt, which has a rendition agreement with the US (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a95renditionegypt"][COLOR=#0000ff]Summer 1995[/COLOR][/URL]). An Egyptian military tribunal has already sentenced him to death in absentia, and he is executed soon after he arrives.

and this:
Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.

firstdown 05-26-2009 03:33 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
Mancow is American.

Slingin Sammy 33 05-26-2009 03:34 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
Our special forces already go through this during SERE training.

Last I checked, Americans aren't beheading people and executing terrorist attacks on innocent people throughout the world.

EDIT: The last American terrorist we had (OK City, McVeigh) was executed. Which I have no problem with.

saden1 05-26-2009 03:42 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559663]I'm with Schneed and Al Gore (while he was VP, see below), no problem with waterboarding these animals. Let's put this into perspective.

Only three high-level Al Qeada operatives were waterboarded:
KSM - Planner of 9/11, involved in WTC bombing, Bali nightblub bombings, beheaded Daniel Pearl
Abu Zubaydah - East African embassy bombings # 2 in Al Qeada, 25% of HUMINT obtained on Al Qeada come through or becasue of interrogation of Zubaydah
Al-Nashiri - Responsible for bombing of USS Cole, Limburg tanker bombing, Chief of Operations for Arabian Peninsula for Al Qeada

[B]These pieces of s**t would torture any of us in the worst way, rape our wives/girlfriends, and then kill us all[/B] and believe their god will reward them for it. They declared war on us. Destroying Al Qeada and saving lives in the U.S. and abroad takes any precedence over a waterboarding/torture debate.

These are not enemy soldiers for another country. They are not covered under the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists, they exist to kill anyone who opposes them or their agenda. Do you think for one second if they had the ability to nuke the U.S. that they wouldn't? Do you think for a second if they had the power to take over/destroy the U.S. they wouldn't.

Not a lot I agreed with Clinton and Gore on, but Gore certainly had this one correct.

According to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_administration"][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton administration[/COLOR][/URL] official [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke"][COLOR=#0000ff]Richard Clarke[/COLOR][/URL]:
“[SIZE=2]'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Cutler"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Lloyd Cutler[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2], demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] had seemed to be siding with Cutler until [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Al Gore[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]South Africa[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2]. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. [B]Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'"[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0000ff][20][/COLOR][/URL][/SIZE]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition"]Extraordinary rendition by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Clinton authorized this:
Talaat Fouad Qassem, 38, a known leader of the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group), an Egyptian extremist organization, is arrested and detained in Croatia as he travels to Bosnia from Denmark, where he has been been living after being granted political asylum. He is suspected of clandestine support of terrorist operations, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a022693wtcbombing"][COLOR=#0000ff]February 26, 1993[/COLOR][/URL]). He also allegedly led mujaheddin efforts in Bosnia since 1990 (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a90qassembosnia"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990[/COLOR][/URL]). In a joint operation, he is arrested by Croatian intelligence agents and handed over to the CIA. Qassem is then interrogated by US officials aboard a US ship off the Croatian coast in the Adriatic Sea and sent to Egypt, which has a rendition agreement with the US (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a95renditionegypt"][COLOR=#0000ff]Summer 1995[/COLOR][/URL]). An Egyptian military tribunal has already sentenced him to death in absentia, and he is executed soon after he arrives.

and this:
Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.[/quote]

[URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0"]Who are we talking about[/URL]?

[quote]...In a March 2006 attack in Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, Green and three other soldiers went to the home of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi. Green shot and killed the teen's mother, father and sister, then became the third soldier to rape the girl before killing her.[/quote]


...and garbing someone to bring them to justice (trying them in the court of law) is not the same as garbing them and torturing them.

GhettoDogAllStars 05-26-2009 03:44 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
Violence perpetuates violence.

Slingin Sammy 33 05-26-2009 03:45 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
What's worse:

1) killing 3 Somali teenagers who haven't actually killed anyone.

or

2) waterboarding 3 adult terrorists who have murdered many.

Slingin Sammy 33 05-26-2009 03:50 PM

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 
[quote=saden1;559671][URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0"]Who are we talking about[/URL]?[/quote]
What are you trying to say?

EDIT: just saw the bolded part, I get it. Question for you, if you could've waterboarded one of the 4 soldiers before the rape and murder of the Iraqi family and gained the intel to stop the murders, would you waterboard to get the info?

My opinion: If the facts stated are true & correct, that this ex-soldier and the other soldiers raped and murdered this girl and her family, they deserve the death penalty.


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