Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

They couldn't have rigged it for a modest win? Does it even matter who the president is seeing how their [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8051750.stm"]government is structured[/URL]?

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

Not really. It would be like McCain and Obama being in office at the same time. One would handle domestic affairs and the other handles the Military and foreign policy. In the end the dipshit with the most power has the final say.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

Ayatollah makes the rules. Ahmadinejad is the international face. Seriously, it's 2009 and there are still Theocracies. WTF?

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

Good link Saden.

I think it does matters. While MA doesn't wield all the power in Iran, he's the public face for sure. And right now most --if not all-- of the public's anger is directed at him. But you guys make a good point, that flow chart is seriously complicated.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

The president is pretty much a face and that is all... (also... all presidential candidates are pre-approved by the government anyways sooo yeah)

Whats interesting is that the people are getting fired up. If that seed is planted it can and will grow. The people of Iran want democracy (especially the growing younger population)... they really do. They just don't want it implanted by the US, and with good reason.

Ayatollah is the leader, and he will keep that theocracy going at pretty much all costs.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

I just love how the news has covered the story. They first acted like how the election would be fair and all votes counted corectly. Then it was they are going to investigate the results and now they are going to do a recount. The whole time the media is all over themself ingnoring the fact that none of this is going to happen.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

It matters to Iranians because the President has the role of upholding their constitution which affects internal matters, but does it matter to the United States? Not really all that much. The Supreme Leader is in charge of all military decisions, so if Iran were to attack Israel or something that would be the Ayatollah's decision, not Ahmenijad's.

Ahmenijad is a public face and he goes out publicly threatening Israel, but in the end his opinion is only monitored to the extent that it reflects the opinion of the Ayatollah.

If the Ayatollah were the one coming out saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth, I'd be a lot more concerned.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=RobH4413;563118]The president is pretty much a face and that is all... (also... all presidential candidates are pre-approved by the government anyways sooo yeah)

Whats interesting is that the people are getting fired up. If that seed is planted it can and will grow. The people of Iran want democracy (especially the growing younger population)... they really do. They just don't want it implanted by the US, and with good reason.

Ayatollah is the leader, and he will keep that theocracy going at pretty much all costs.[/quote]
How has the US ever tried to force democracy on Iran? Yes presidents have talked about a democracy in Iran but that as far as it ever has gone. You do know this was all brought about because of Obama's speech a couple of weeks back and now democracy will spread like wild fire and we will all live as one.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563132]How has the US ever tried to force democracy on Iran? Yes presidents have talked about a democracy in Iran but that as far as it ever has gone. You do know this was all brought about because of Obama's speech a couple of weeks back and now democracy will spread like wild fire and we will all live as one.[/quote]

I think it's gone further than just talk

[url=http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/]Electronic Briefing Book: The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup[/url]

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

If I were the Israelis I'd attack now while they're at their weakest. After the attack I'd blame it all on Am-a-dick-jihad and the hardliners.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=SmootSmack;563149]I think it's gone further than just talk

[URL="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/"]Electronic Briefing Book: The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup[/URL][/quote]
I was thinking more of current stuff and how presidents have treated Iran.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;563153]If I were the Israelis I'd attack now while they're at their weakest. After the attack I'd blame it all on Am-a-dick-jihad and the hardliners.[/quote]


I sometimes wonder if you're a real person. Do you really exist or are you a character created by one of our members for their own musing?

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563157]I was thinking more of current stuff and how presidents have treated Iran.[/quote]

Sorry, your multiple use of the word ever had me thinking otherwise

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=SmootSmack;563173]Sorry, your multiple use of the word ever had me thinking otherwise[/quote]
Well you of all people should know that my hands don't type what my brain is thinking.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563174]Well you of all people should know that my hands don't type what my brain is thinking.[/quote]

Smart move! Your noted inability to consistently form coherent sentences makes you exempt from having to back up your claims. It's like claiming mental insanity

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=saden1;563171]I sometimes wonder if you're a real person. Do you really exist or are you a character created by one of our members for their own musing?[/quote]

:laughing2
Aren't you the one who said that we should be friends to the terrorist in club Gitmo? He He He You're the one with a screw loose.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563157]I was thinking more of current stuff and how presidents have treated Iran.[/quote]

A lot of our problems in the Middle East can be traced to this type of thinking. They don't forget. We helped stage a major coup in Iran some 50 years ago and they still hate us for it. I don't blame them. We still hold Japan's feet to the coals with provisions from the surrender in WWII and that was even longer ago. Just because it hasn't happened in your lifetime doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Much of the ire towards us is pretty warranted based on our continued interference in their business.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;563185]:laughing2
Aren't you the one who said that we should be friends to the terrorist in club Gitmo? He He He You're the one with a screw loose.[/quote]

You're fencing with boxing gloves again? :doh:

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=saden1;563197]You're fencing with boxing gloves again? :doh:[/quote]

Whatever, you don't mean anything to me.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=FRPLG;563191]A lot of our problems in the Middle East can be traced to this type of thinking. They don't forget. We helped stage a major coup in Iran some 50 years ago and they still hate us for it. I don't blame them. We still hold Japan's feet to the coals with provisions from the surrender in WWII and that was even longer ago. Just because it hasn't happened in your lifetime doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Much of the ire towards us is pretty warranted based on our continued interference in their business.[/quote]
What continued interference? Trying to stop some nut job from having a nuk?

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563132][B]How has the US ever tried to force democracy on Iran?[/B] Yes presidents have talked about a democracy in Iran but that as far as it ever has gone. You do know this was all brought about because of Obama's speech a couple of weeks back and now democracy will spread like wild fire and we will all live as one.[/quote]



I never said we were trying to force democracy on Iran. We have, however, forced democracy out of Iran. In light of our record of implementing democracy on Islamic states, I felt it was appropriate to address that issue of what the Iranian people feel. [I][/I]

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[quote=firstdown;563202]What continued interference? Trying to stop some nut job from having a nuk?[/quote]


First of all the guy isn't a nutjob. The MSM painting this guy as a Hitler is insane. Ahjy isn't calling for war. Iran has the second lowest per capita defense spending in the entire ME. Do you think they are ready to fight a war with Nixon era F-4 Phantoms? Like previous posters have said Khameini has all the power. He is the head of the govt, the armed forces, etc. Ahjy did pose some relevant points vis a vis the Holocaust and he was automatically labeled a Denier. For the most part, most of his talking about the Holocaust centers on how the Israelis tend to use it as a blank check excuse for anything they do. As for this nutjob wanting nukes? No concrete evidence as of yet that they have a nuke weapon program, but even if they really do, does it matter? For 50+ years we stood toe to toe against the USSR who had 20,000 warheads pointed at us and Europe. Iranians are not fools, if they were to try an attack Israel, the Israelis would wipe them out easily, as would the US. Everybody wants to join the nuclear club now. They know it means hands off to the US. Face it, we haven't fought a true honest opponent in a war since the Vietcong and the NVA and we lost that one even though the kill ratio was what 20-1? The Iranian thinking is that they get nukes we will leave them alone. Pretty soon Chavez will have them or try to procure them.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

As for Iranian democracy, if I am not mistaken didn't the Washington Post just run a story about how they conducted a poll in Iran a week before the election and the poll came out almost identical to the real outcome? Ahjy gets his support from the workers and peasants in the small towns and rural areas which make up the majority of the Iranian population. Mousavi gets his support from the students, the artists, upper class, along with the rich expats abroad. Throw in the typcial DC saber rattling as of late and it is more than believable that Ahjy could win by a 2-1 margin. Another interesting tidbit about Mousavi is that he was the Foreign Minister during the Iran Iraq War, had a hand in Iran Contra, and also is beleived to have had a hand in the creation of Hezbollah, so in reality it might not really matter who wins.

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There has always been a stong undercurrent of resistance to the theocracy in Iran but I think the main reason it is reaching a critical mass now is that the younger folks there feel empowered enough to act. Remember, that an entire Iranian generation was wiped out in the Iran-Iraq war. That allowed the mullahs to maintain power through a difficult time and for a longer period than might otherwise have been sustainable. Now, the demographics have swung against them. I suspect, however, that we will not see a full-scale counter-revolution. Instead the clerics will make enough concessions to maintain power without completely losing their grip. These protesters are not hard core deomocrats or secularists. They're just pissed that the election was a ripoff. The mullahs will survive, though what emerges will almost certainly better for us than the intransigent regime of recent years.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=RobH4413;563251]I never said we were trying to force democracy on Iran. We have, however, forced democracy out of Iran. In light of our record of implementing democracy on Islamic states, I felt it was appropriate to address that issue of what the Iranian people feel. [/quote]
Well with all the protest going on how can you say that how the people still feel about democracy. I feel its more of the people in charge and not wanting to let go of their power and keeping their people suppressed.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;563258]As for Iranian democracy, if I am not mistaken didn't the Washington Post just run a story about how they conducted a poll in Iran a week before the election and the poll came out almost identical to the real outcome? Ahjy gets his support from the workers and peasants in the small towns and rural areas which make up the majority of the Iranian population. Mousavi gets his support from the students, the artists, upper class, along with the rich expats abroad. Throw in the typcial DC saber rattling as of late and it is more than believable that Ahjy could win by a 2-1 margin. Another interesting tidbit about Mousavi is that he was the Foreign Minister during the Iran Iraq War, had a hand in Iran Contra, and also is beleived to have had a hand in the creation of Hezbollah, so in reality it might not really matter who wins.[/quote]
Do you really think they would allow the WP to do a poll that would have any other out come? I think the election was going to be rigged from the get go and thats the only reason they allowed for outside media to come in and cover the election. In their mind this would show the world that the people did support them.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=firstdown;563331]Well with all the protest going on how can you say that how the people still feel about democracy. I feel its more of the people in charge and not wanting to let go of their power and keeping their people suppressed.[/quote]

I can say how the Iranian people feel based on the Iranian-Americans I have studied with. They paint an accurate portrayal of the nations desire for democracy, especially the younger crowd. I think these protests demonstrate just that. There is an incredibly large moderate population that is not represented by the theocracy, and hence the reason the moderate presidential candidate is the cause for all of this protest.

Re: Iranian Election and Government Structure
 

[quote=70Chip;563271]There has always been a stong undercurrent of resistance to the theocracy in Iran but I think the main reason it is reaching a critical mass now is that the younger folks there feel empowered enough to act. Remember, that an entire Iranian generation was wiped out in the Iran-Iraq war. That allowed the mullahs to maintain power through a difficult time and for a longer period than might otherwise have been sustainable. Now, the demographics have swung against them. I suspect, however, that we will not see a full-scale counter-revolution. Instead the clerics will make enough concessions to maintain power without completely losing their grip. These protesters are not hard core deomocrats or secularists. They're just pissed that the election was a ripoff. The mullahs will survive, though what emerges will almost certainly better for us than the intransigent regime of recent years.[/quote]

Your completely right.

What's interesting is that this whole protest is actually putting a ton of pressure on the Ayatollah. He's is pretty much the guy in charge, and the people are showing the complete disdain for that system (Ie HIM). The fact that he's deferred to the guardian council was a move that has basically bought him more time.

Now, these protest could lead the ayatollah to simply oust Ahmadinejad, to appease the people. It's at least created a mini-storm of possibility, and what's incredibly fascinating is that this could possibly be the start of a new Iranian revolution.

What happens with that is anyone's guess.