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Paintrain 10-16-2009 08:01 PM

NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
So here's something new, Steve Wyche of the NFL Network is reporting that Zorn will likely survive the regular season ([url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81375b19/Wyche-discusses-Zorn-s-future]NFL Videos: Wyche discusses Zorn's future[/url]) mostly because of a lack of suitable person in house to take over duties.

He also says Samuels likely out all season and opponents who have broken down tape say our offensive woes are largely attributable to a bad roster/scheme fit.

I wonder if the bye week would be too early for Snyder to tell Zorn he's not coming back in '10 regardless or if he'd wait until late/after the season to do so.

skinsfaninok 10-16-2009 08:10 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=Paintrain;609547]So here's something new, Steve Wyche of the NFL Network is reporting that Zorn will likely survive the regular season ([URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81375b19/Wyche-discusses-Zorn-s-future"]NFL Videos: Wyche discusses Zorn's future[/URL]) mostly because of a lack of suitable person in house to take over duties.

He also says Samuels likely out all season and opponents who have broken down tape say our offensive woes are largely attributable to a bad roster/scheme fit.

I wonder if the bye week would be too early for Snyder to tell Zorn he's not coming back in '10 regardless or if he'd wait until late/after the season to do so.[/quote]

I hope Zorn leaves ASAP! And as far as our 'Roster" or "Scheme" goes, that's obvious to see, JC is a BACKUP qb at best and our WR's don't fit a WC system, you need dependable players to actually catch everything that comes their way, and a Quick release from the QB, JC may have one of the slowest in the league. I loved what Riggo said about Zorn lol

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/16/riggins-lacerates-snyder-zorn-cerrato-again/]Riggins lacerates Snyder, Zorn, Cerrato. Again. | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

53Fan 10-16-2009 08:26 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
Interesting. I agree the team was built for Gibbs offense and Zorn is trying to make it work with the WCO. I think Zorn needs to make a few adjustments, (Blocking Schemes, etc.), but he still may be able to make this work. Obviously we need new personell but it's a little late for that right now. I wonder if this will be followed by more, "Zorn will last the season" articles?

Skinny Tee 10-16-2009 08:29 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=Paintrain;609547]So here's something new, Steve Wyche of the NFL Network is reporting that Zorn will likely survive the regular season ([URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81375b19/Wyche-discusses-Zorn-s-future"]NFL Videos: Wyche discusses Zorn's future[/URL]) mostly because of a lack of suitable person in house to take over duties.

He also says Samuels likely out all season and opponents who have broken down tape say our offensive woes are largely attributable to a bad roster/scheme fit.

I wonder if the bye week would be too early for Snyder to tell Zorn he's not coming back in '10 regardless or if he'd wait until late/after the season to do so.[/quote]

Not to sound like a broken record but it's not Zorn's fault that he is versed in the WCO. Every pratfall this team has suffered has just been reflected on the front office.

It's so indictable that I don't see how there's not an outright perpetual protest in front of Redskins Park.

44Deezel 10-16-2009 08:45 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=Paintrain;609547]So here's something new, Steve Wyche of the NFL Network is reporting that Zorn will likely survive the regular season ([url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81375b19/Wyche-discusses-Zorn-s-future]NFL Videos: Wyche discusses Zorn's future[/url]) mostly because of a lack of suitable person in house to take over duties.

He also says Samuels likely out all season and opponents who have broken down tape say our offensive woes are largely attributable to a bad roster/scheme fit.

I wonder if the bye week would be too early for Snyder to tell Zorn he's not coming back in '10 regardless or if he'd wait until late/after the season to do so.[/quote]

I've heard others make the case against the current personnel as it pertains to the West Coast Offense. The argument typically points out that there's a mismatch across the entire Offense - Campbell not ideal for the West Coast Offense, no pass catching RB, need lighter, more agile Offense Linemen, etc. Seems to make sense and the results back it up.

44Deezel 10-16-2009 08:50 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=53Fan;609552]Interesting. I agree the team was built for Gibbs offense and Zorn is trying to make it work with the WCO. I think Zorn needs to make a few adjustments, (Blocking Schemes, etc.), but he still may be able to make this work. Obviously we need new personell but it's a little late for that right now. I wonder if this will be followed by more, "Zorn will last the season" articles?[/quote]

I always thought it was odd that they were keeping Gibbs running game to go along with Zorn's passing game. What they were doing in Seattle with Shaun Alexander seemed to work just fine. I never thought of him as a pass catching back, but he did catch 59 balls one year. When Saunders came to DC, I thought Portis would catch 70 plus balls like Holmes and Faulk. Never materialized.

tryfuhl 10-16-2009 08:57 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
The guys Danny wants are waiting till the end of the season to come back.

GusFrerotte 10-16-2009 10:36 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=Paintrain;609547]So here's something new, Steve Wyche of the NFL Network is reporting that Zorn will likely survive the regular season ([URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d81375b19/Wyche-discusses-Zorn-s-future"]NFL Videos: Wyche discusses Zorn's future[/URL]) mostly because of a lack of suitable person in house to take over duties.

He also says Samuels likely out all season and opponents who have broken down tape say our offensive woes are largely attributable to a bad roster/scheme fit.

I wonder if the bye week would be too early for Snyder to tell Zorn he's not coming back in '10 regardless or if he'd wait until late/after the season to do so.[/quote]


Wow Wyche said that? It isn't like a bunch of us guys in here haven't been saying that for the past several weeks. You have a system, you acquire guys that can play effectively in the system or can easily adapt to it. Zorn is trying to put square pegs into round holes. His entire WR corp is used(except for maybe Mitchell and the Pistol offense) was used to playing in a pro style verticle passing type offense in either the college ranks and with ARE and Moss, the pros. The depth is horrid on both sides of the ball. Like it or not if you want to see a consistent winner, it is going to take another 3-5 seasons. Hopefully 2010 is indeed a capless year and you can dump the trash and start anew.

GusFrerotte 10-16-2009 10:43 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=44Deezel;609558]I've heard others make the case against the current personnel as it pertains to the West Coast Offense. The argument typically points out that there's a mismatch across the entire Offense - Campbell not ideal for the West Coast Offense, no pass catching RB, need lighter, more agile Offense Linemen, etc. Seems to make sense and the results back it up.[/quote]


Our O linemen are old school Gibbs running guys. Samuels was really old school running with Norv, Marty and Stephen Davis. You know things are getting bad when you look back at the Norv era in a good light.

SFREDSKIN 10-16-2009 10:48 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=53Fan;609552]Interesting. I agree the team was built for Gibbs offense and Zorn is trying to make it work with the WCO. I think Zorn needs to make a few adjustments, (Blocking Schemes, etc.), but he still may be able to make this work. Obviously we need new personell but it's a little late for that right now. I wonder if this will be followed by more, "Zorn will last the season" articles?[/quote]

Bottom line is Vinny is to blame for convincing Danny to try the WCO without the right personnel in place. We should have stayed in the air Coryell style offense instead of the WCO, Campbell is more suited for the Gibbs/Coryell offense. In my opinion I think the Gibbs/Coryell offense is a better offense, just look at Baltimore. I think NO runs Parcells type of offense.

53Fan 10-16-2009 11:59 PM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=SFREDSKIN;609593]Bottom line is Vinny is to blame for convincing Danny to try the WCO without the right personnel in place. We should have stayed in the air Coryell style offense instead of the WCO, Campbell is more suited for the Gibbs/Coryell offense. In my opinion I think the Gibbs/Coryell offense is a better offense, just look at Baltimore. I think NO runs Parcells type of offense.[/quote]

Vinny definitely has some blame in this. The way I see it is this. They brought in Zorn with the idea of installing the WCO. They knew, or should have known, what kind of players fit the system. They knew that we didn't have a lot of players who were experienced in the WCO. Zorn picked assistants who were not familiar with teaching the WCO. (That I know of). We draft WR's with the idea of working them into the offense as quickly as we can even though they have no NFL or WCO experience. This is obviously a [B]long term[/B] plan. The system must be taught, implemented, practiced and executed. Players who fit, must be acquired. From all reports by QB's who have been in the system, it takes 2-3 years to become efficient in it.

Now Zorn [B]seems[/B] to be catching a lot of heat because we're 2-3 starting off our 2nd season with him as coach. I say seem, because we haven't heard anything from the FO confirming or denying this. What I'd like to know, is did the FO have any intention of giving Zorn 3 years to succeed? It has also been said by those that know, that a QB can do well in the system faster, if he has a good team around him so the burden is not too heavily put on [B]him.[/B] I would think that a good offensive line that can run block and keep the QB from dodging and ducking and not commit penalties that negate 1rst downs, would be part of that equation.

Zorn has made mistakes. (Run up the freakin middle! The only stretch I want to hear about is the players stretching before the game.) The question is, is he to stupid or stubborn to learn? I thought the offense looked better than I'd seen it in a long time except for the redzone and really expected that to be worked out. We can either can the whole thing and start over, or give Zorn time and see. I'm not sure playing 6 winless teams in a row is such a blessing. These guys are fired up and catching heat too. And we've always played down to the level of competition. We did it last year and we did it when Gibbs was here.

I guess I'm rambling. Sorry. Whatever the FO does, I just wish I had more confidence in them to believe it's the right decision.

WaldSkins 10-17-2009 12:05 AM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=53Fan;609609]Vinny definitely has some blame in this. The way I see it is this. They brought in Zorn with the idea of installing the WCO. They knew, or should have known, what kind of players fit the system. They knew that we didn't have a lot of players who were experienced in the WCO. Zorn picked assistants who were not familiar with teaching the WCO. (That I know of). We draft WR's with the idea of working them into the offense as quickly as we can even though they have no NFL or WCO experience. This is obviously a [B]long term[/B] plan. The system must be taught, implemented, practiced and executed. Players who fit, must be acquired. From all reports by QB's who have been in the system, it takes 2-3 years to become efficient in it.

Now Zorn [B]seems[/B] to be catching a lot of heat because we're 2-3 starting off our 2nd season with him as coach. I say seem, because we haven't heard anything from the FO confirming or denying this. What I'd like to know, is did the FO have any intention of giving Zorn 3 years to succeed? It has also been said by those that know, that a QB can do well in the system faster, if he has a good team around him so the burden is not too heavily put on [B]him.[/B] I would think that a good offensive line that can run block and keep the QB from dodging and ducking and not commit penalties that negate 1rst downs, would be part of that equation.

Zorn has made mistakes. (Run up the freakin middle! The only stretch I want to hear about is the players stretching before the game.) The question is, is he to stupid or stubborn to learn? I thought the offense looked better than I'd seen it in a long time except for the redzone and really expected that to be worked out. We can either can the whole thing and start over, or give Zorn time and see. I'm not sure playing 6 winless teams in a row is such a blessing. These guys are fired up and catching heat too. And we've always played down to the level of competition. We did it last year and we did it when Gibbs was here.

I guess I'm rambling. Sorry. Whatever the FO does, I just wish I had more confidence in them to believe it's the right decision.[/quote]

The west coast has nothing to do with wasteing all your timeouts with over 10 minutes left in the game.

53Fan 10-17-2009 12:26 AM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=WaldSkins;609610]The west coast has nothing to do with wasteing all your timeouts with over 10 minutes left in the game.[/quote]

And that's what got us 3 losses? I guess we're in good shape then. Just use the timeouts better and we're good to go.

Hog1 10-17-2009 08:42 AM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
To me, that is the [B]single most disappointing thing about JZ[/B]. Much of the GENIUS behind any genius coach is the ability to determine "what" you have and design/adapt the scheme to go with those skill sets. He does not appear to understand this.
Joe1 recognized this in his first season and made a legend out of evaluating the talent he had, exploiting their strengths and minimizing their faults.
THEN, as time (and the draft) allows.....fill in the gaps

Beemnseven 10-17-2009 09:02 AM

Re: NFL Network: Zorn likely to survive the season
 
[quote=53Fan;609609]Vinny definitely has some blame in this. The way I see it is this. They brought in Zorn with the idea of installing the WCO. They knew, or should have known, what kind of players fit the system. They knew that we didn't have a lot of players who were experienced in the WCO. Zorn picked assistants who were not familiar with teaching the WCO. (That I know of). We draft WR's with the idea of working them into the offense as quickly as we can even though they have no NFL or WCO experience. This is obviously a [B]long term[/B] plan. The system must be taught, implemented, practiced and executed. Players who fit, must be acquired. From all reports by QB's who have been in the system, it takes 2-3 years to become efficient in it.

[B]Now Zorn [B]seems[/B] to be catching a lot of heat because we're 2-3 starting off our 2nd season with him as coach. I say seem, because we haven't heard anything from the FO confirming or denying this. What I'd like to know, is did the FO have any intention of giving Zorn 3 years to succeed? [/B]. . .[/quote]

I think this would have been true if we were seeing progress. Instead, Zorn's offense is getting worse, and a full year and an offseason of familiarity with the playbook and scheme hasn't helped at all.

If we saw our offense advancing in efficiency and scoring, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


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