Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

Titans owner Bud Adams FAILS to endorse Jeff Fisher past this season....
What a classic Dumb Ass

[url=http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/10/titans-owner-wont-endorse-keeping-jeff-fisher-beyond-this-season/1]Titans owner won't endorse keeping Jeff Fisher beyond this season - The Huddle: Football News from the NFL - USATODAY.com[/url]

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

I don't understand the love for all this guys Fisher, Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher, Shottenheimer. In my opinion they are all average, the only guys for consideration are Holmgren and Dungy. What has Fisher done in all his years in Houston/Tennesse? Shanahan without Elway? Cowher in 14/15 years in Pitt? Gruden without the team Dungy beat? Marty with his many playoff chokes. I want someone that will takes us to the SB and win. I'm sorry but none of these guys do it for me except for Holmgren and Dungy. Are we that desperate that all these guys remind you of Gibbs, Walsh, Belichick? Jack Pardee is probably available.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613325]I don't understand the love for all this guys Fisher, Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher, Shottenheimer. In my opinion they are all average, the only guy for consideration is Holmgren. What has Fisher done in all his years in Houston/Tennesse? Shanahan without Elway? Cowher in 14/15 years in Pitt? Gruden without the team Dungy beat? Marty with his many playoff chokes. I want someone that will takes us to the SB and win. I'm sorry but none of these guys do it for me except for Holmgren. Are we that desperate that all these guys remind you of Gibbs, Walsh, Belichick? I guess so.[/quote]

Jeff Fisher? How about these stats...

From 99-08 (10 years)

6 times he's won over 10 games/yr
Won 13 games 3 times, 12 once, 11 once

When is the last time we've won 11 games? 10 games?

Fisher is a great coach and I'd choose him above all others. Get him and a young GM and let them do their thing.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

GM first, coach second. If we hire a Coach before a GM, then we are back to square 1.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=redsk1;613327]Jeff Fisher? How about these stats...

From 99-08 (10 years)

6 times he's won over 10 games/yr
Won 13 games 3 times, 12 once, 11 once

When is the last time we've won 11 games? 10 games?

Fisher is a great coach and I'd choose him above all others. Get him and a young GM and let them do their thing.[/quote]

And he has also gone from:

13-3 to 7-9

12-4 to 5-11

13-3 to 0-6 so far this year.

He's like a rollercoaster.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Angry;613329]GM first, coach second. If we hire a Coach before a GM, then we are back to square 1.[/quote]

Exactly

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613325]I don't understand the love for all this guys [B]Fisher, Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher[/B], Shottenheimer. In my opinion they are all average, the only guys for consideration are Holmgren and Dungy. What has Fisher done in all his years in Houston/Tennesse? Shanahan without Elway? Cowher in 14/15 years in Pitt? Gruden without the team Dungy beat? Marty with his many playoff chokes. I want someone that will takes us to the SB and win. I'm sorry but none of these guys do it for me except for Holmgren and Dungy. Are we that desperate that all these guys remind you of Gibbs, Walsh, Belichick? Jack Pardee is probably available.[/quote]

Not that I'm backing up these guys or anything, but Shotty aside, you have there six to seven SB appearances and four SB wins between those four guys (feel free to correct me) and you are calling them average? I mean they are no Belichick or Waslh or Gibbs, but I wouldn't call them average. Besides, aside from Gibbs, what HC hired by Snyder has had the resume that these guys have had?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613325]I don't understand the love for all this guys Fisher, Gruden, Shanahan, Cowher, Shottenheimer. In my opinion they are all average, the only guys for consideration are Holmgren and Dungy. What has Fisher done in all his years in Houston/Tennesse? Shanahan without Elway? Cowher in 14/15 years in Pitt? Gruden without the team Dungy beat? Marty with his many playoff chokes. I want someone that will takes us to the SB and win. I'm sorry but none of these guys do it for me except for Holmgren and Dungy. Are we that desperate that all these guys remind you of Gibbs, Walsh, Belichick? Jack Pardee is probably available.[/quote]

Tony Dungy is a good football coach however he had Peyton Manning as a QB and Tom Moore as his OC. Who's there coach now? Is he great too? He's undefeated?

TD had a great D in TB and turned that organization around. His offenses were always bad. Why? B/c he didn't have a quarterback. So, i give him credit for turning around that D but I just don't see him as a top tier coach. That being said, i would be happy w/ a TD as our coach.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613330]And he has also gone from:

13-3 to 7-9

12-4 to 5-11

13-3 to 0-6 so far this year.

He's like a rollercoaster.[/quote]

As a fan of the Redskins, would you like to win 10+ games a year for 6 out of the next 10 years? 13 games for 3 times in the next ten years?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Ruhskins;613335]Not that I'm backing up these guys or anything, but Shotty aside, you have there six to seven SB appearances and four SB wins between those four guys (feel free to correct me) and you are calling them average? I mean they are no Belichick or Waslh or Gibbs, but I wouldn't call them average. Besides, aside from Gibbs, what HC hired by Snyder has had the resume that these guys have had?[/quote]

Fisher no SB win
Shanahan 2 SB w/ Elway
Gruden 1 SB 1st year in TB (Dungy built that team)
Shottenheimer couldn't even win (ok, maybe ine) a playoff game

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=redsk1;613336]Tony Dungy is a good football coach however he had Peyton Manning as a QB and Tom Moore as his OC. Who's there coach now? Is he great too? He's undefeated?

TD had a great D in TB and turned that organization around. His offenses were always bad. Why? B/c he didn't have a quarterback. So, i give him credit for turning around that D but I just don't see him as a top tier coach. That being said, i would be happy w/ a TD as our coach.[/quote]

Did he not build TB and Indy? Ok, Polian helped to.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Angry;613329]GM first, coach second. If we hire a Coach before a GM, then we are back to square 1.[/quote]

+1! Agreed!

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=redsk1;613339]As a fan of the Redskins, would you like to win 10+ games a year for 6 out of the next 10 years? 13 games for 3 times in the next ten years?[/quote]

I want that record and win the SB, not get to the playoffs and choke like Fisher, Shottenheimer. I will give Shanahan and Gruden a pass since they won SB's but that was years ago.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613340]Fisher no SB win
Shanahan 2 SB w/ Elway
Gruden 1 SB 1st year in TB (Dungy built that team)
Shottenheimer couldn't even win (ok, maybe ine) a playoff game[/quote]

And you could say that Bill Callahan took Gruden's Raiders' to the Superbowl when they played against Tampa Bay. And that Dungy has won a SB with one of the best QB in the NFL (Manning).

No offense, but I think you're stretching your argument here. It's ok for you to say that you wouldn't want these guys to coach the Redskins, but I think you're making a poor argument about these guys being average coaches.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Ruhskins;613344]And you could say that Bill Callahan took Gruden's Raiders' to the Superbowl when they played against Tampa Bay. And that Dungy has won a SB with one of the best QB in the NFL (Manning).

No offense, but I think you're stretching your argument here. It's ok for you to say that you wouldn't want these guys to coach the Redskins, but I think you're making a poor argument about these guys being average coaches.[/quote]

It's like in sports, what have you done for me lately mentality. Most fans in this forum have no patience and want things turned around overnite and think this guys are saviors. I rather take my chance with a young/hungry proven coordinator (not QB coach) than this retreads who have had their chances.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613341]Did he not build TB and Indy? Ok, Polian helped to.[/quote]

I should say TD is a very, very good coach, but I just don't give him too much credit for his Indi SB. My god, Peyton Manning should be in contention every year for a SB which he has been. TD turned around the Bucs no doubt he just never got the offense straight.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

I like Jeff Fisher. Great coach, better person. But that doesn't mean I want him here. I don't understand why we keep complaining that Snyder just goes after the big names...and then just talk about bringing in big names.

What we should do is find the next great coach (and it's not Zorn it seems). Maybe it's Brian Schottenheimer, maybe it's Jeremy Bates, maybe it's Kyle Shanahan, maybe it's Pete Carmichael, maybe it's Darell Bevell, maybe it's Rob Ryan...and so on

The danger of course is that it could backfire completely, but at this point why not take that chance?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613356]I like Jeff Fisher. Great coach, better person. But that doesn't mean I want him here. I don't understand why we keep complaining that Snyder just goes after the big names...and then just talk about bringing in big names.

What we should do is find the next great coach (and it's not Zorn it seems). Maybe it's Brian Schottenheimer, maybe it's Jeremy Bates, maybe it's Kyle Shanahan, maybe it's Pete Carmichael, maybe it's Darell Bevell, maybe it's Rob Ryan...and so on

The danger of course is that it could backfire completely, but at this point why not take that chance?[/quote]

Two questions...

1. What big name coach (with a winning record, SB appearance/ring on their resume as HC) has Snyder brought?
2. Didn't we already take a chance on Zorn?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613356]I like Jeff Fisher. Great coach, better person. But that doesn't mean I want him here. I don't understand why we keep complaining that Snyder just goes after the big names...and then just talk about bringing in big names.

What we should do is find the next great coach (and it's not Zorn it seems). Maybe it's Brian Schottenheimer, maybe it's Jeremy Bates, maybe it's Kyle Shanahan, maybe it's Pete Carmichael, maybe it's [B]Darell Bevell[/B], maybe it's Rob Ryan...and so on

The danger of course is that it could backfire completely, but at this point why not take that chance?[/quote]Brett Favre = QB of future.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

SFREDSKINS, here's an argument you can use against Fisher that might work better...

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4581777]Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher wears Indianapolis Colts Peyton Manning jersey at charity event - ESPN[/url]

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

Zorn was an odd chance to take. A 55 year old with no play calling experience. Meanwhile Kyle Shanahan is 29 years old and has been calling plays for a couple of years now

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Ruhskins;613361]SFREDSKINS, here's an argument you can use against Fisher that might work better...

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4581777]Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher wears Indianapolis Colts Peyton Manning jersey at charity event - ESPN[/url][/quote]

No, this works better. How many SB's has Jeff Fisher won? NONE. In how many years of coaching? 16 seasons

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

How many head coaches have there been the last 16 years? And how many of those have won Super Bowls

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613356]I like Jeff Fisher. Great coach, better person. But that doesn't mean I want him here. I don't understand why we keep complaining that Snyder just goes after the big names...and then just talk about bringing in big names.

What we should do is find the next great coach (and it's not Zorn it seems). Maybe it's Brian Schottenheimer, maybe it's Jeremy Bates, maybe it's Kyle Shanahan, maybe it's Pete Carmichael, maybe it's Darell Bevell, maybe it's Rob Ryan...and so on

The danger of course is that it could backfire completely, but at this point why not take that chance?[/quote]

I definitely agree that if one is really serious about building a winning franchise for the future...which means its winning ways is built on continuity, then hiring an up and coming coach who has had experience with either being a playcalling OC or DC and is young is definitely the way to go. Joe Gibbs wasn't a head coach prior to being hired by the Redskins. All of the "big name" coaches had to start somewhere.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Angry;613329]GM first, coach second. If we hire a Coach before a GM, then we are back to square 1.[/quote]

Spot on.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613340]Fisher no SB win
[B]Shanahan 2 SB w/ Elway[/B]
Gruden 1 SB 1st year in TB (Dungy built that team)
Shottenheimer couldn't even win (ok, maybe ine) a playoff game[/quote]

It doesn't make sense to qualify Shanahan's Super Bowl victories on the basis of John Elway's starting QB role without similarly qualifying Tony Dungy's Super Bowl victory on the basis of Peyton Manning's starting QB role.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613346]It's like in sports, what have you done for me lately mentality. Most fans in this forum have no patience and want things turned around overnite and think this guys are saviors. [B]I rather take my chance with a young/hungry proven coordinator (not QB coach) than this retreads who have had their chances[/B].[/quote]

Remember, Belicheck was also a retread. Dungy didn't win a SB with "the team he built" in TBay. He had to be a "retread" in Indy to get it. Retread J. Gruden won his SB [I]against[/I] the team he built in Oakland. Retread T. Coughlin won a SB after being run out on a rail from Jacksonville. Retread D. Vermeil got a SB with the Rams and got damn close with KCity.

None of these coaches were successful in their first stints. You're right - patience is required [I]but[/I] there may be something to be said for hiring a coach who knows how to manage a game and build a team. Even if he doesn't bring championships, maybe as Dungy did in TBay, they can set the stage for further success.

BUT - for the record - I am with the "First GM, then HC" crowd. I just think a new GM should not discount those with HC exp. just b/c they didn't win a gazillion SB's in their first stint.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

I don't understand the original post and the reference to Cowher -- and spoecifically the statement about what's he done in 14 years at Pittsburgh. A lot, actually. He's had great teams, won a SB, and not with big name, flashy guys, but blue collar workhorses (kind of like the old Redskins teams). Pittsburgh never goes crazy in free agency, they seem to have managed the cap well, and he's done with while grooming a group of excellent young coaches (Tomlin, Whisenhunt, Grimm) -- and it takes good coaching all around to win. Most of the great head coaches had great assistants, and Cowher knows how to develop them. Plus, I wouldn't mind a head coach with some fire.

Having said all of that, he's probably looking at the Redskins franchise right now and thinking to himself that there are 1000 things he'd rather do that get bogged down with this mess.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613330]And he has also gone from:

13-3 to 7-9

12-4 to 5-11

13-3 to 0-6 so far this year.

He's like a rollercoaster.[/quote]

Fischer is a proven guy and is very well respected around the league. He's working for the cheapest owner in the NFL. If he's fired he'd be my 1st choice.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613356]I like Jeff Fisher. Great coach, better person. But that doesn't mean I want him here. I don't understand why we keep complaining that Snyder just goes after the big names...and then just talk about bringing in big names.

What we should do is find the next great coach (and it's not Zorn it seems). Maybe it's Brian Schottenheimer, maybe it's Jeremy Bates, maybe it's Kyle Shanahan, maybe it's Pete Carmichael, maybe it's Darell Bevell, maybe it's Rob Ryan...and so on

The danger of course is that it could backfire completely, but at this point why not take that chance?[/quote]

Oh I totally agree, let's do some big time due diligence here. Jeff Fisher is a big time quality coach too and i think you have to look his way as well. He's 51 so he's got some good years in front of him too. I think there is major quality behind the big name. With that being said there's nothing I'd like more than to find the next great head coach. Maybe it's B Schott, or K Shanahan. Hopefully our FO will do some major work and make the right choice.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

Not as dumb as Fisher would be if he even contemplated playing for Danny the Bozo. Best guess here is that he wouldn't.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=joeredskin;613400]remember, belicheck was also a retread. Dungy didn't win a sb with "the team he built" in tbay. He had to be a "retread" in indy to get it. Retread j. Gruden won his sb [i]against[/i] the team he built in oakland. Retread t. Coughlin won a sb after being run out on a rail from jacksonville. Retread d. Vermeil got a sb with the rams and got damn close with kcity.

None of these coaches were successful in their first stints. You're right - patience is required [i]but[/i] there may be something to be said for hiring a coach who knows how to manage a game and build a team. Even if he doesn't bring championships, maybe as dungy did in tbay, they can set the stage for further success.

[b]but - for the record - i am with the "first gm, then hc" crowd[/b]. I just think a new gm should not discount those with hc exp. Just b/c they didn't win a gazillion sb's in their first stint.[/quote]

me toooo!

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

I like Gruden over all of them. Oalkand wins the Super Bowl, the year of the tuck rule, and who knows how many more they win. If Gruden wasnt coaching Tampa they would have never beat Oakland its well known how Gruden schemed and picked Oaklands offense apart in that game. Look how quickly Oakland fell apart after Gruden left and Tampa will look at them right now. Gruden has so much respect for the game Im sure he woud be honored to take over this franchise.

Gruden might be the only coach we can hire before a GM. He wants an organiztion willing to get the best players for what he wants. And he loves the grind of the long hours and football in general.

Gruden coaching Oakland and Dungy coaching Tampa in the Super Bowl. I go hands down Gruden. Dungy way over rated, he is mediocre coach that took him years to build a respectable defense to be to handle the of the Patriots. And he was a so called Defensive guru, P.Manning thats where his praise comes from without him he would never lead that team into success.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Angry;613329]GM first, coach second. If we hire a Coach before a GM, then we are back to square 1.[/quote]

Bingo, we have a winner, or was that a TD?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=MrSpectre;613405]Not as dumb as Fisher would be if he even contemplated playing for Danny the Bozo. Best guess here is that he wouldn't.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree, it would be dumb for Jeff Fisher to come play for us.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=Buster;613508]Yeah, I agree, it would be dumb for Jeff Fisher to come play for us.[/quote]

LOL. Well played

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613330]And he has also gone from:

13-3 to 7-9

12-4 to 5-11

13-3 to 0-6 so far this year.

He's like a rollercoaster.[/quote]

He's a recognizable name that's why his name will be brought up in discussions here. I want to see some other things happen before even considering the thought of who the next coach might be. Too much unfinished business.

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;613346]It's like in sports, what have you done for me lately mentality. Most fans in this forum have no patience and want things turned around overnite and think this guys are saviors. I rather take my chance with a young/hungry proven coordinator (not QB coach) than this retreads who have had their chances.[/quote]

Well in response to you and Smootsmack, it's not so much that we want the 'name' but we want their system, their structure, their professionalism. Does anyone think for a minute that outside of maybe Holmgren or Floyd Reese that if Snyder hires a 'young/hungry' GM and or coach that he's not going to try to bully and big time him as soon as he feels the itch?

I'd like to think that Snyder's matured since the Schottenheimer ordeal to realize that when you've got a guy with a system, a structure and a plan, especially someone with a proven track record, you let him do what he does. I don't think he's matured to that point with just anyone though.

I think the whole 'what has Shanahan done without Elway' or 'he won with Dungy's team' argument is bunk. Each team is a different situation. Shanahan has had a winning program with clowns like Jake Plummer and Brian Griese. Gruden turned over about 35-40% of the roster in his first season and won the Super Bowl. Who is to say what happens if one of them takes over in DC? Maybe they draft the next Matt Ryan, find a Steve Slaton in the 4th or 5th round, sign 3 OL and the light comes on for one of the young WR. What's it going to be then? He is just winning because of the defense that Vinny Ceratto built?

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

[quote=calia;613402]I don't understand the original post and the reference to Cowher -- and spoecifically the statement about what's he done in 14 years at Pittsburgh. A lot, actually. He's had great teams, won a SB, and not with big name, flashy guys, but blue collar workhorses (kind of like the old Redskins teams). Pittsburgh never goes crazy in free agency, they seem to have managed the cap well, and he's done with while grooming a group of excellent young coaches ([B]Tomlin, Whisenhunt, Grimm[/B]) -- and it takes good coaching all around to win. Most of the great head coaches had great assistants, and Cowher knows how to develop them. Plus, I wouldn't mind a head coach with some fire.

Having said all of that, he's probably looking at the Redskins franchise right now and thinking to himself that there are 1000 things he'd rather do that get bogged down with this mess.[/quote]
You can give him credit for Winenhunt but Grimm really cut his coaching teeth here under Norv (although I still don't get why Redskins fans think he's such a great coach) and Tomlin was an outside hire.

Either way Cowher is the one big name I think we can completely discount as coming here. Unless Carolina turns it around in a major way, John Fox is out and Cowher is in.

Hey, maybe John Fox will be the next Redskins coach! Been to the Super Bowl, they won 12 games last year! He's a FIT!! [/sarcasm]

Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher
 

I'd actually give up the farm for Fisher. The guys knows what the hell he is doing. If we could get him just to be GM I'd be damn impressed.