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GTripp0012 11-10-2009 10:29 AM

Campbell Comparables
 
Decided to start a new Campbell thread since the OP in the "Campbell's numbers don't lie" thread is now 6 weeks old, and no one is going to read through 1,000 posts.

Bill Barnwell at FO provides us this PFR query for Jason Campbell's season, based on the explosion of his sack rate. He compares Campbell's numbers to the 17 closest seasons in the last thirty years.

The link is here:

[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/WnSlC"]Player Season Finder Query Results | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL]

Barnwell's analysis is here:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2009/jason-campbells-sack-rate]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Jason Campbell's Sack Rate[/url]

The most interesting thing is the two closest seasons to the season Campbell is having now, out of every QB season in the last 30 years, were Ben Roethlisberger's worst two seasons. There's little doubt that Roethlisberger is seeing downfield right now a lot better than Campbell is, but I'm not sure that's always been the case.

Question is, exactly how did the Steelers get that offense to where they are right now? And how can the Redskins prevent this situation from finishing out as bad as it started.

diehardskin2982 11-10-2009 10:33 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
regardless of how many pro- Campbell post are out there, Jason doesn't make the best decisions during the course of the game and cannot lead his team to victory. He is a better manager, than a leader. Right now the Redskins need a leader.

Monkeydad 11-10-2009 10:35 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
The other thread is still alive and well...it's 6-weeks old because it's going to be an ongoing thread for the entire season.

freddyg12 11-10-2009 10:44 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
I thought JC had his best game in weeks on sunday. A few times in the first half he had his head down while moving in the pocket. They even commented on it in the booth. But he was under crazy pressure. He settled down & made some nice plays. His accuracy was about as good as it's been all year.

I'm not expecting much, but if Buges et al can keep the fire lit under the o line like they did in the 2nd half sunday, I think JC will play well. I was very impressed w/him sunday, he showed a lot of heart & poise to play the way he did after getting sacked 5 times.

I wonder if the new o line w/Jones at Lt, Heyer at RT will be an improvement?

GTripp0012 11-10-2009 10:48 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
I haven't heard anyone say that Campbell did poorly against Atlanta; only that it's too little too late at this point.

Chico23231 11-10-2009 11:22 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=diehardskin2982;623362]regardless of how many pro- Campbell post are out there, Jason doesn't make the best decisions during the course of the game and cannot lead his team to victory. He is a better manager, than a leader. Right now the Redskins need a leader.[/quote]

Exactly. Zero in the leadership department. A complete flushing out of the offense is what we need. Bye Bye JC!!!!

Ruhskins 11-10-2009 11:53 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=Chico23231;623384]Exactly. Zero in the leadership department. A complete flushing out of the offense is what we need. Bye Bye JC!!!![/quote]

Actually if we had a running game and our defense would be as elite as we pay them, then we would be fine with a game manager.

freddyg12 11-10-2009 11:55 AM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=GTripp0012;623372]I haven't heard anyone say that Campbell did poorly against Atlanta; only that it's too little too late at this point.[/quote]

That certainly is the sentiment at this point. I don't know that I would count him out entirely yet. If he plays well & the offense gets going (relatively speaking), it could make for a tough decision in the offseason. What if he plays like the 6-2 run of last year?

At this point it's highly likely that a qb is brought in via draft or free agency in 10, but that doesn't have to mean that JC is out. I agree that it's likely, but I could also see a new coach and/or GM keeping him here to compete for the job. The cba will have a lot to do w/it I think.

44Deezel 11-10-2009 12:01 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=freddyg12;623368]I thought JC had his best game in weeks on sunday. A few times in the first half he had his head down while moving in the pocket. They even commented on it in the booth. But he was under crazy pressure. He settled down & made some nice plays. His accuracy was about as good as it's been all year.

I'm not expecting much, but if Buges et al can keep the fire lit under the o line like they did in the 2nd half sunday, I think JC will play well. I was very impressed w/him sunday, he showed a lot of heart & poise to play the way he did after getting sacked 5 times.

I wonder if the new o line w/Jones at Lt, Heyer at RT will be an improvement?[/quote]

I did too. I was impressed. It's hard to criticize him when he's getting pummeled the way he is, BUT he wasn't under duress the first 4 games of the season. It wasn't until Samuels went down that the line broke-down completely. In terms of sacks, he was in the bottom third of all starters after 4 games. And even during the 6-2 start last year, when the running game was best in the league, and he was getting ample time he only threw 8 TDs (16 TD pace).

The names on GTRIPPs list, Elway, Jaworski, Big Ben, Simms, etc. may have have performed comparably when they had similar sack totals, but what they did in other years was vastly better than Campbell has shown himself capable of. But I know there are other factors like coaching, wide receivers, systems, etc. Maybe he's been permanently damaged by the Skins, maybe he'll do well with another team, maybe he's just average no matter what the circumstances. We may never know.

cpayne5 11-10-2009 12:10 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=Chico23231;623384]Exactly. Zero in the leadership department. A complete flushing out of the offense is what we need. Bye Bye JC!!!![/quote]

Until you are in the huddle, or around the team for a considerable amount ot time, assumptions like this are asinine.

GTripp0012 11-10-2009 12:12 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=44Deezel;623412]The names on GTRIPPs list, Elway, Jaworski, Big Ben, Simms, etc. may have have performed comparably when they had similar sack totals, but what they did in other years was vastly better than Campbell has shown himself capable of. But I know there are other factors like coaching, wide receivers, systems, etc. Maybe he's been permanently damaged by the Skins, maybe he'll do well with another team, maybe he's just average no matter what the circumstances. We may never know.[/quote]Well, you're right. They have (with the exception of Carr). But a lot of them hadn't prior to the high sack season.

The main point of starting this thread was to pose the question: what can we do as a team to get more out of our quarterback position? The Pittsburgh comparison is really close because that's a team that lost Faneca and had a poor offensive line for basically a 16-game season, and Roethlisberger played skittish and inconsistent all year.

Right now, Ben's damn near 70% completion and he's getting good protection from his line. He's having an MVP type season. Admittedly, their OL is much younger than ours is, but it's 4 of the same 5 guys who played last year when they struggled. Zorn and Arians run similar schemes, although I certainly don't feel they are equals.

The Steelers had a really bad offense last year, and got it fixed in one offseason (plus a postseason). I'm not even suggesting that the Redskins should even attempt to fix this crap in a single offseason, but my question is: what would we have to do to get a similar result?

GTripp0012 11-10-2009 12:12 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=cpayne5;623419]Until you are in the huddle, or around the team for a considerable amount ot time, assumptions like this are asinine.[/quote]I just assumed he was in the huddle. He sounded confident.

SolidSnake84 11-10-2009 12:19 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
I have seen nothing out of Jason this year that says he is anything more than a backup QB, and i definatley don't see him staying here next year.

I do not think jason is a bad quarterback. But i don't think he is a starter because he lacks motivation and doesnt seem to be able to "fire up" the team. He will go somewhere and do well as a backup, ala Charlie Batch. Come in and play a game or 2 and the team at least has a chance....but he isn't the answer for 16 games..

cpayne5 11-10-2009 12:21 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=SolidSnake84;623426]I have seen nothing out of Jason this year that says he is anything more than a backup QB, and i definatley don't see him staying here next year.

I do not think jason is a bad quarterback. But i don't think he is a starter because he [B]lacks motivation[/B] and doesnt seem to be able to "fire up" the team. He will go somewhere and do well as a backup, ala Charlie Batch. Come in and play a game or 2 and the team at least has a chance....but he isn't the answer for 16 games..[/quote]

Statements like that amaze me.

Chico23231 11-10-2009 12:21 PM

Re: Campbell Comparables
 
[quote=cpayne5;623419]Until you are in the huddle, or around the team for a considerable amount ot time, assumptions like this are asinine.[/quote]

Dont need to be in a huddle to see. I see it in interviews, his demeanor on the field, and most important in the win-loss column.

Im not attacking his character, his seems to be a fine likeable person. Hell, I wanted him to succeed. Thats not the issue. Im thinking of the body of work and his ability to carry a team to a win, ability to lead a team a tough patch in a season, and make people around him better. You either got it or you dont. I dont think he has it.

I pretty sure the FO is convinced and will being persuing other options in the offseason like they did last offseason, so we are really debating nothing at this point.


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