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mlmdub130 11-11-2009 06:17 PM

who stays? who goes?
 
this subject seems to come up in every thread just though i'd start one just for it.

i think our whole o line needs to go, maybe keep heyer and levi jones around i'd like to see what levi still has in the tank, rabach probably has a year or two as well, obviously we will have to address the oline in the draft and free agency

rb's i think it's very obvious portis is past his prime, is it worth keepin him i don't think so, see if we can anything for him, so we don't have to pay him, this is another issue we probably need to address in the draft as well, i'd keep betts he seems to get it done when he has the opportunity which i didn't think he could anymore, rock i'm on the fence yeah he is a captin, but what does he really do for us we keep picking up fourth backs so...

wr once the season is over whoever has had the best season devin or malcom keep the better one and cut ties with the other yet another issue we could try to address in the draft but doubtful, moss is getting up there and so is are

te is a tough one, davis could pan out, i'd hate to see cooley go though, i guess i'd like to see both of them here next year and see what happens, yoder might have one or two more good years as a solid blocker

qb i'd like to see campbell stay one more year as doubtful as that is, it would be nice to have a game manager, and i'd like to see alot of colt during preseason, another issue we will be addressing in the draft and thoose options are endless there is a good crop of qb's this year

d is overall solid it's be nice to find another corner, i think smoot is almost done he hasn't played all that much this year, but our line is pretty good our young guys have been steeping up

we need to address the lb's though, fletcher is getting up there rocky has been playing pretty solid, i'm still not sold on blades yet but he isn't terrible, another issue we could address late in the draft or in free agency

basically imo we have a lot of things that need to be addressed asap since our lack of drafting quality players and our only pickin up huge free agent players has left us with a team that is hurting in a lot of places, mostly offense

The Goat 11-11-2009 08:12 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I've thought about starting a similar thread but in the current state of our team I find it beyond difficult to be "objective" with something like this. Oh well since you brought it up I'll play along...seems easiest to me just to try and pick keepers you'd like to see start at first. Maybe I'll think about depth a little down the road :)

[U]Offense[/U]:

*Brennan
*Betts
*Dock
*Cooley
*Davis
*Devin Thomas
*Kelly
*JC*

If we really did a full sweep and cut CP, Moss, ARL, Sellers and the entire oline apart from Dock and maybe Jones depending on how he performs, then I'm for giving Jason one more chance to lead. I really, really like the kid and would give him another chance to become the team leader, suspecting w/ the likes of Portis, Moss and now Sellers and their various, um, attitude issues maybe Jason had no chance of getting everyone to line up behind him. Definitely w/ Moss I get the feeling he's 100% for himself out there...

[U]Defense[/U]:

*Jarmon
*Alexander
*Phat Al
*Orakpo
*Rocky Mac
*Los
*Hall
*Doughty
*Horton

Really hard to let Fletcher go but we need youth there and a monster MLB for the future. I'm really on the fence about keeping Hall but letting Moore go. I think w/ better coaching and pre-season team activities Hall could become a better tackler and all-around better corner. The same could be said for Moore at safety but I just haven't seen enough of him to tell...I wish Zorn/Blache would bench Landry for the season and give Moore the start to see where he's at.

Ruhskins 11-11-2009 08:53 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I think they should keep JC as a back up. I'm all for keeping Jones to see what he has left in the tank, but I'd want us to draft our franchise tackle next year. I'm all for parting ways with Moss, CP, and ARE. I'd like to get a pick out of any of those three players to be honest, but I don't know how realistic that is...maybe Moss I really wouldn't touch the defense much. Although with all the areas, even with no salary cap, it is going to be challenging getting good young players if you need 5 seasons to be eligible for free agency (i.e. JC will be a RFA).

jsarno 11-11-2009 09:14 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote=mlmdub130;623895]

[quote]i think our whole o line needs to go, maybe keep heyer and levi jones around i'd like to see what levi still has in the tank, rabach probably has a year or two as well, obviously we will have to address the oline in the draft and free agency[/quote]

I disagree...most of the oline needs to stay, they just need to be in a backup capacity.

[quote]rb's i think it's very obvious portis is past his prime, is it worth keepin him i don't think so, see if we can anything for him, so we don't have to pay him, this is another issue we probably need to address in the draft as well, i'd keep betts he seems to get it done when he has the opportunity which i didn't think he could anymore, rock i'm on the fence yeah he is a captin, but what does he really do for us we keep picking up fourth backs so...[/quote]

I'd like to start over here...get some young fresh legs. I'd like to see us draft a young gun, or get a first year back eager to prove himself that has loads of talent. Then get a bruiser back in the draft with a later pick. Some division 2 rb that is a load, and has average speed so we can have the best of both worlds. But point is, start over here.

[quote]wr once the season is over whoever has had the best season devin or malcom keep the better one and cut ties with the other yet another issue we could try to address in the draft but doubtful, moss is getting up there and so is are[/quote]

ARE needs to go, I still say he hurts the progress of Thomas and Kelly, both of whom need to stay. Moss needs to be a #2, or he needs to go. No more Moss being the ace. We are so afraid to cut ties with our best WR because we feel no one will step up. History tells us, someone will.

[quote]te is a tough one, davis could pan out, i'd hate to see cooley go though, i guess i'd like to see both of them here next year and see what happens, yoder might have one or two more good years as a solid blocker[/quote]
Both need to stay. Cooley could be trade bait. But both are way too talented to let go.

[quote]qb i'd like to see campbell stay one more year as doubtful as that is, it would be nice to have a game manager, and i'd like to see alot of colt during preseason, another issue we will be addressing in the draft and thoose options are endless there is a good crop of qb's this year[/quote]

Brennan can stay, the rest...well don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[quote]d is overall solid it's be nice to find another corner, i think smoot is almost done he hasn't played all that much this year, but our line is pretty good our young guys have been steeping up[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]we need to address the lb's though, fletcher is getting up there rocky has been playing pretty solid, i'm still not sold on blades yet but he isn't terrible, another issue we could address late in the draft or in free agency[/quote]

Also agree.

[quote]basically imo we have a lot of things that need to be addressed asap since our lack of drafting quality players and our only pickin up huge free agent players has left us with a team that is hurting in a lot of places, mostly offense[/quote]

Zorn certainly needs to go, hands down. And if we're having a wish list can I throw Cerrato and Snyder out on their duffs too?

Lotus 11-11-2009 09:31 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote=The Goat;623916]I've thought about starting a similar thread but in the current state of our team I find it beyond difficult to be "objective" with something like this. Oh well since you brought it up I'll play along...seems easiest to me just to try and pick keepers you'd like to see start at first. Maybe I'll think about depth a little down the road :)

[U]Offense[/U]:

*Brennan
*Betts
*Dock
*Cooley
*Davis
*Devin Thomas
*Kelly
*JC*

If we really did a full sweep and cut CP, Moss, ARL, Sellers and the entire oline apart from Dock and maybe Jones depending on how he performs, then I'm for giving Jason one more chance to lead. I really, really like the kid and would give him another chance to become the team leader, suspecting w/ the likes of Portis, Moss and now Sellers and their various, um, attitude issues maybe Jason had no chance of getting everyone to line up behind him. Definitely w/ Moss I get the feeling he's 100% for himself out there...

[U]Defense[/U]:

*Jarmon
*Alexander
*Phat Al
*Orakpo
*Rocky Mac
*Los
*Hall
*Doughty
*Horton

Really hard to let Fletcher go but we need youth there and a monster MLB for the future. I'm really on the fence about keeping Hall but letting Moore go. I think w/ better coaching and pre-season team activities Hall could become a better tackler and all-around better corner. The same could be said for Moore at safety but I just haven't seen enough of him to tell...I wish Zorn/Blache would bench Landry for the season and give Moore the start to see where he's at.[/quote]

Excellent analysis. I agree about Santana's being in his own world.

However, on offense I would trade Cooley. He is an outstanding player and it would be a loss, but he one of the few guys that we could trade for a good dividend of draft choices. And we can perhaps bring Davis along.

On defense I would hang onto Fletch one more year solely so that we can spend as many of our acquisition resources on offense as possible.

If there is a cap, moving D.Hall would create an unthinkable cap nightmare, no?

Dirtbag59 11-11-2009 09:48 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I'm tempted to keep Santana but thats because of a host of other reasons. For starters after this year I'd like to get rid of ARE (as good a guy as he is) and at least one of the wonder twins at receiver to send a message. Either way last thing I want right now is either Vinny (assuming he stays) or whoever our new GM is, to have an excuse to ignore the O-Line.

Son Of Man 11-11-2009 10:58 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
Roster Moves if I were GM!...and I trusted my scouting department.

[B]QB[/B]- Brennan and Collins will compete to determine who stays. Either way I would look to draft a franchise signal caller (if, after a full draft process evaluation, one warrants that pick).

[B]HB[/B]- Trade CP for any pick we could get (probably 3rd or 4th). Cut Betts & Cartwright. Pick up either Jerious Norwood or Lendale White in FA (if they become available and are cost effective, no big deals) or draft a RB in the mid rounds.

[B]WR[/B]- Keep Moss, Thomas, Kelly & Mitchell. If no takers in trade for ARE, cut him. Get add'l depth player in FA.

[B]TE[/B]- Stand pat with Cooley, Davis & Yoder (unless younger blocking TE is available in FA or later rounds).

[B]OL[/B]- Starters= Dock & Rabach (don't like him, but may be hard to replace him this year short of a miracle or Edwin Willams progressing). Draft LT in early first (if not high on a particular QB) or late first (trading back in) or early second. Keep Levi depending on his performance this year. Montgomery & Williams for depth NOT STARTERS. Target RT with 3rd round pick (from Portis deal if applicable) or 4th round. Get RG in FA cause Rhinehart looks like a bust. FA's for depth. BTW- heyer sux.

[B]DL[/B]- I'm pleased with the roster here but may move Griffin out and put Golston/Alexander in to fill. Drop Montgomery. FA or late round for depth. Jarmon to replace retiring Daniels.

[B]LB[/B]- Keep McIntosh at the Will, Orakpo at the Sam, If replacement for London at Mike becomes available then replace him (not the highest priority).

[B]S[/B]- No complaints here. Although if a true FS becomes available get him and move Landry back to SS.

[B]CB[/B]- If uncapped year, trade Rogers for value. If capped year, franchise him and trade for value (1st or 2nd round either way...yes, some team will pay). Keep Hall, Tryon & Barnes. Drop Smoot and Westbrook. Fill starting spot opposite Hall via FA.

[B]Coaching Staff[/B]- Fire everyone! Allow new coach to pick his staff although I would see if he would want to retain Jerry Gray to run the defense. I lean toward Russ Grimm (look at his work with the Steelers and recently with the Cards) or another up and coming Coordinator/Assistant Head Coach. Re-tread SB coaches would not be ideal as this normally does not work.

*I actually belive that with shrewd moves, proper scouting and a changing of the guard in terms of our core players....we are a couple years away from being a perenniel playoff team.

bigm29 11-11-2009 11:03 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote]I've thought about starting a similar thread but in the current state of our team I find it beyond difficult to be "objective" with something like this. Oh well since you brought it up I'll play along...seems easiest to me just to try and pick keepers you'd like to see start at first. Maybe I'll think about depth a little down the road :)

[U]Offense[/U]:

*Brennan
*Betts
*Dock
*Cooley
*Davis
*Devin Thomas
*Kelly
*JC*

If we really did a full sweep and cut CP, Moss, ARL, Sellers and the entire oline apart from Dock and maybe Jones depending on how he performs, then I'm for giving Jason one more chance to lead. I really, really like the kid and would give him another chance to become the team leader, suspecting w/ the likes of Portis, Moss and now Sellers and their various, um, attitude issues maybe Jason had no chance of getting everyone to line up behind him. Definitely w/ Moss I get the feeling he's 100% for himself out there...

[U]Defense[/U]:

*Jarmon
*Alexander
*Phat Al
*Orakpo
*Rocky Mac
*Los
*Hall
*Doughty
*Horton

Really hard to let Fletcher go but we need youth there and a monster MLB for the future. I'm really on the fence about keeping Hall but letting Moore go. I think w/ better coaching and pre-season team activities Hall could become a better tackler and all-around better corner. The same could be said for Moore at safety but I just haven't seen enough of him to tell...I wish Zorn/Blache would bench Landry for the season and give Moore the start to see where he's at.[/quote][quote][/quote]

i really agree with you here goat about campbell. But at the same time, i do not think we should be hesitant to bring in other qbs

Trample the Elderly 11-11-2009 11:42 PM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I say the next GM and head coach should let guys go that will not help the team. It's that simple. Are some of those guys trash, or is it bad coaching? IMO, without a long range plan with a good GM then, there's not point in speculating.

I'd blow up the offense and try and keep the D the same. ST would also get a lot of my attention.

diehardskin2982 11-12-2009 12:08 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I really think with some changes this team can be a contender again, very soon. It really depends on the coaching staff that is hired and the type of schemes that they look to implement. For the coaching staff I am hoping we get Gruden and he keeps Sherm Lewis as the OC. Jerry Gray as the DC.

QB: Ties have to be cut with JC, I'm sorry but I really feel the front office has damaged this kid 2 much, he simply can not win in washington. Tod Collins hopefully will retire.Keep Colt, hopefully draft Tim Tebow in the second round and the Eagles cut Vick. We sign him. Sounds crazy but for me a player doesn't win 2 college championships by luck.
RB/FB: cut portis-i think he may have something left in the tank but he doesn't practice and sends the wrong message. Keep Betts, Rock and Sellers. Spend the money and sign Sproles. Making Rock, Betts, and Sproles as a 3 headed monster.
WR: Cut ARE keep everyone else. Hopefully with better qb play the recievers play better.
TE: keep all three, this position is a strength for us
Oline: Draft the top Tackle sign the top olineman that hit the freeagent market. I don't know who to cut because depth on the line is scarse in the NFL.

Defense keep the same.

The Goat 11-12-2009 12:10 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote=Lotus;623947]Excellent analysis. I agree about Santana's being in his own world.

However, on offense I would trade Cooley. He is an outstanding player and it would be a loss, but he one of the few guys that we could trade for a good dividend of draft choices. And we can perhaps bring Davis along.

On defense I would hang onto Fletch one more year solely so that we can spend as many of our acquisition resources on offense as possible.

[B]If there is a cap, moving D.Hall would create an unthinkable cap nightmare, no?[/B][/quote]

That's really the key to it. The cap situation changes the whole picture of who goes and who stays. If the cap is extended Hall would have to stay, but then looking at contracts for CP and ARL it would be awful painful to cut them under a cap too. I basically assumed no cap which gives us the most freedom. In fact at this point we have to pray for an uncapped year as Skins fans or the options are severely limited.

You're right about Fletcher Lotus. W/o him the defense suffers enormously unless we spend a very high draft pick for a MLB (which we all pretty much agree should be spent on a franchise OT) or Blades steps up big. There's no harm in keeping Fletcher another year :)

Lotus 11-12-2009 12:19 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote=The Goat;623972]That's really the key to it. The cap situation changes the whole picture of who goes and who stays. If the cap is extended Hall would have to stay, but then looking at contracts for CP and ARL it would be awful painful to cut them under a cap too. I basically assumed no cap which gives us the most freedom. [B]In fact at this point we have to pray for an uncapped year as Skins fans or the options are severely limited.[/B]

You're right about Fletcher Lotus. W/o him the defense suffers enormously unless we spend a very high draft pick for a MLB (which we all pretty much agree should be spent on a franchise OT) or Blades steps up big. There's no harm in keeping Fletcher another year :)[/quote]

Good point.

GTripp0012 11-12-2009 12:44 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
Goes (one reason or another): Collins, Brennan, Betts (yep, my avatar), Ganther, Thomas or Kelly (literally an either or camp battle), Yoder, Samuels, Batiste, Randy Thomas, Will Montgomery, Rabach, Daniels, Griffin, Anthony Montgomery, Wynn, Henson, Smoot, Westbrook, Landry

Bring in: OT Trent Williams, LB Sean Weatherspoon or RB Anthony Dixon or CB Javier Arenas, OT Kyle Calloway or C J.D. Walton, RB Andre Anderson or RB Joique Bell, CB Sherrick McMannis, S Ryan Clark, NTs Fred Robbins or Aubreyo Franklin, WR Antonio Bryant, RB Kevin Faulk

No quarterback, reasoning: I like both Ryan Mallett and Christian Ponder. A lot.

GTripp0012 11-12-2009 12:47 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
I propose that the defensive hire for 2010 is someone versed in either the multiple defense, or a 3-4 coach. The reasoning is it looks like our personnel best fits a 3-4, as shown:

DL: NTs Haynesworth and Monty (or veteran replacement), DEs Lorenzo Alexander, Jeremy Jarmon, and Kedric Golston

LBs: OLBs Brian Orakpo and Chris Wilson (plus UDFA help), ILBs London Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh, and HB Blades

Nomad 11-12-2009 02:21 AM

Re: who stays? who goes?
 
[quote=diehardskin2982;623971]I really think with some changes this team can be a contender again, very soon. It really depends on the coaching staff that is hired and the type of schemes that they look to implement. For the coaching staff I am hoping we get Gruden and he keeps Sherm Lewis as the OC. Jerry Gray as the DC.

QB: Ties have to be cut with JC, I'm sorry but I really feel the front office has damaged this kid 2 much, he simply can not win in washington. Tod Collins hopefully will retire.Keep Colt, hopefully draft Tim Tebow in the second round and the Eagles cut Vick. We sign him. Sounds crazy but for me a player doesn't win 2 college championships by luck.
RB/FB: cut portis-i think he may have something left in the tank but he doesn't practice and sends the wrong message. Keep Betts, Rock and Sellers. Spend the money and sign Sproles. Making Rock, Betts, and Sproles as a 3 headed monster.
WR: Cut ARE keep everyone else. Hopefully with better qb play the recievers play better.
TE: keep all three, this position is a strength for us
Oline: Draft the top Tackle sign the top olineman that hit the freeagent market. I don't know who to cut because depth on the line is scarse in the NFL.

Defense keep the same.[/quote]

I like that Vick under an new head coach, and Tebow learning for two years, with Sproles, the WR core and TE core, a new OL.... if we got these guys and wasnt a playoff team the next year, i donate a month check to a charity of the warpath choice........ I think in the draft i have to go after C.J. Spiller in the draft if he is available late 1st or 2nd round, Spiller, Sproles.... i keep Rock, cut Betts..... sign Vick to a two year deal.... opt. second year. I like this team already


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