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-   -   How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap? (http://www.thewarpath.net/salary-cap-central/33486-how-will-chris-samuelss-retirement-affect.html)

skinster 11-18-2009 01:24 PM

How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
Will it be treated as a release,? Is he not entitled to any of his remaining money? Or is there something inbetween?

Schneed10 11-18-2009 01:32 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
For cap purposes, a retirement has the same cap effect as a release.

If Samuels retires, next season he will take up $14.4 million in dead money, as opposed to taking up $4.9 if he were on the roster. That's an incremental hit of $9.5 million.

We currently have approximately $109 million in 2010 cap dollars tied up in 36 players. The cap (if there is one, which I don't think there will be) is expected to be $136-140 million next season.

Samuels' retirement would take our cap dollars up to $118.5, leaving us with about $18-22 million remaining in cap space. Further space could be cleared through contract restructures and the like.

It does not appear cap space would be a major constraint in the offseason, even given Samuels' retirement. But I doubt there's a cap at all, negotiations between the NFL and the players association have still not made much progress to date.

Schneed10 11-18-2009 01:34 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
And to answer your question, if he retires, no he is not entitled to any funds beyond what he is being paid in FY 2009.

dmek25 11-18-2009 01:34 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
does no cap mean exactly that? basically spend what you want? yeah, i know its a dumb question

Schneed10 11-18-2009 01:55 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=dmek25;627290]does no cap mean exactly that? basically spend what you want? yeah, i know its a dumb question[/quote]

Yes. It means exactly that.

Schneed10 11-18-2009 01:57 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
Don't expect some free agency bonanza, though. The rules governing free agency will also change in an uncapped year, restricting the movement of free agents.

SBXVII 11-18-2009 02:03 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=dmek25;627290]does no cap mean exactly that? basically spend what you want? yeah, i know its a dumb question[/quote]

I presume yes and no. Basically next year we can spend as much as we want, but I would imagine that when the CAP is put back in place all teams will have to find a way to get below it or they would have to agree on raising the CAP further to accomidate everyone.

Mattyk 11-18-2009 02:05 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
If the cap goes away it's probably not coming back any time soon, and not in it's current form.

BigHairedAristocrat 11-18-2009 03:37 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=Schneed10;627289]And to answer your question, if he retires, no he is not entitled to any funds beyond what he is being paid in FY 2009.[/quote]

I didn't know that. I assumed that if Samuels retired, he would be entitled to the rest of the pay on his contract. Do you happen to know what the "logic" is behind this situation. If a team releases a player, the team is screwed, but the player is not - he still gets his money. Logically, I would think that if a player "releases" his team by retiring, then the player should be screwed, but the team should not be. If a player retires, why should the player AND the team be penalized for money that is not paid? It doesnt seem like this rule is in the benefit of the players union or the league.

WaldSkins 11-18-2009 05:05 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=Schneed10;627301]Don't expect some free agency bonanza, though. The rules governing free agency will also change in an uncapped year, restricting the movement of free agents.[/quote]

Wouldn't there be alot of players released with large contracts that are not playing up to there cap number?

skinster 11-18-2009 05:26 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=WaldSkins;627343]Wouldn't there be alot of players released with large contracts that are not playing up to there cap number?[/quote]

Id assume there will be a few more than normal, but this is not madden, this is real money being spent here. It would be hard for many owners to take a massive hit this year for the sake of their teams, especially in the recession.

Schneed10 11-18-2009 07:23 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=WaldSkins;627343]Wouldn't there be alot of players released with large contracts that are not playing up to there cap number?[/quote]

Not if there's no cap, LOL.

WaldSkins 11-18-2009 07:24 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=Schneed10;627371]Not if there's no cap, LOL.[/quote]

I figured that teams would use this no cap time to drop salaries of unwanted players in case the cap returned.

Schneed10 11-18-2009 07:27 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;627329]I didn't know that. I assumed that if Samuels retired, he would be entitled to the rest of the pay on his contract. Do you happen to know what the "logic" is behind this situation. If a team releases a player, the team is screwed, but the player is not - he still gets his money. Logically, I would think that if a player "releases" his team by retiring, then the player should be screwed, but the team should not be. If a player retires, why should the player AND the team be penalized for money that is not paid? It doesnt seem like this rule is in the benefit of the players union or the league.[/quote]

Because the team's not taking the big cap hit for money not yet paid, the team is taking the cap hit for money already paid but not yet realized on the cap.

A player who gets a $20 million signing bonus up front in a 5 year contract has that bonus prorated per year of his contract. So the $20 million bonus counts $4 million per season. If he's due a base salary of $1 million as well, then his total cap number is $5 million.

But if a player plays one year of that contract and then retires, the team has to realize the other $16 million of the bonus money not yet counted on the cap. This outweighs the savings they realize on not having to pay his base salary.

You can see that the earlier in a contract a player is released, the bigger the cap hit.

Schneed10 11-18-2009 07:29 PM

Re: How will chris samuels's retirement affect our cap?
 
[quote=WaldSkins;627372]I figured that teams would use this no cap time to drop salaries of unwanted players in case the cap returned.[/quote]

It's unlikely the players will agree to put a cap back in place once it's gone.


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