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FRPLG 01-04-2010 02:35 PM

Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
Not surprising other than maybe it was worse tahn we thought. Could this article scream Portis and Haynesworth anymore or is it just me?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/daniels-wynn-acknowledge-redsk.html]Redskins Insider - Daniels, Wynn acknowledge need for leader[/url]

rbanerjee23 01-04-2010 02:40 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
God..short of the Raiders, this is the most mismanaged organization in the league. If Snyder has any shame, he won't show his face or make any football decisions other than sign checks for the rest of his ownership of the Skins.

FRPLG 01-04-2010 02:45 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
To me this is where the blame on Snyder falls. He apparently has no clue that his co-mingling and relationships with the players creates such a toxic environment. Gibbs should not have stood for it. Hell if that was as big a problem as these guys say then on principle alone Zorn should have quit.

Monkeydad 01-04-2010 02:45 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
I didn't have an issue with Haynesworth. We knew he doesn't play every down coming in. When you're double-teamed every play and fighting through 600+ pounds of blocking, you're going to need breathers. He is a hard worker despite what looked like a part-time role. Look how our sack totals skyrocketed with his addition. He earned his pay as far as I'm concerned. True, his late-season practice shenanigan was uncalled for, but his play on the field was what we bought.

Monkeydad 01-04-2010 02:48 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=FRPLG;649671]To me this is where the blame on Snyder falls. He apparently has no clue that his co-mingling and relationships with the players creates such a toxic environment. Gibbs should not have stood for it. Hell if that was as big a problem as these guys say then on principle alone Zorn should have quit.[/quote]

Correct.

Players need to go to and through the coach for concerns. Perhaps Zorn was to blame for some of it, he didn't exactly have much authority to put his foot down and make them listen, especially later on.

Snyder should have stopped it though. No talking to him or Vinny, talk to the coach and he'll relay anything he needs to.

With Allen and Shanahan, I believe this will stop.

FRPLG 01-04-2010 02:49 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=Buster;649673]I didn't have an issue with Haynesworth. We knew he doesn't play every down coming in. When you're double-teamed every play and fighting through 600+ pounds of blocking, you're going to need breathers. He is a hard worker despite what looked like a part-time role. Look how our sack totals skyrocketed with his addition. He earned his pay as far as I'm concerned. True, his late-season practice shenanigan was uncalled for, but his play on the field was what we bought.[/quote]

This goes beyond on field contributions though. I always got the feeling that AH had a Portis-like pipeline to the upstairs. I agree AH was a monster and I didn't have issues with his dissatisfaction with the way he was being used. Hell I agreed with him. But I chalk the complete ignoring of the bad-mouthing by the organization as even more sign that AH was allowed to do whatever because he and Snyder were buddies.

FRPLG 01-04-2010 02:51 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=Buster;649674]Correct.

Players need to go to and through the coach for concerns. Perhaps Zorn was to blame for some of it, he didn't exactly have much authority to put his foot down and make them listen, especially later on.

Snyder should have stopped it though. No talking to him or Vinny, talk to the coach and he'll relay anything he needs to.

With Allen and Shanahan, I believe this will stop.[/quote]

Snyder's downfall has always been that he gets buddy buddy with players and next thing you know they're signing ridiculous 7-year contract extensions and becoming mini-HCs in the locker room.

JoeRedskin 01-04-2010 02:51 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
Wow!! What a shocker!! <sarcasm font off>

[I]Hopefully[/I], this was more the result of VC's divisive management style than of DS's intervention. Again, [I]hopefully[/I], Allen and the next coach tell DS "Hey, you want to hang out with players and be there buddy - Fine. So long as every conversation ends with 'but remember, ____ is coach and what he says goes. period.' "

I think DS wants to win enough that he may have learned he needs to get out of the way. Who knows.

Lotus 01-04-2010 02:54 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
Dang. We all knew stuff like this was going on but I did not know it was this bad.

Bruce and Mike, right this ship!

SmootSmack 01-04-2010 02:56 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.

53Fan 01-04-2010 02:56 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
I agree FRPLG. One of the things I noticed in Allen's presser was, he said the COACH would decide which assistants would stay or be let go. I hope this means a return to power of the HC and The Dan will back off with any interference. His relationships with certain players has undermined the HC IMO.

FRPLG 01-04-2010 03:03 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=SmootSmack;649682]Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.[/quote]
I would say this...the mere appearance that any players can go off talking to the owner about the organization, side-stepping the head coach, is completely poisonous. If DS's door is always open he needs to close it. Talking to Snyder about doing a charity event or something is cool...it needs to go through the head-coach. Talking to DS about why your position coach sucks isn't cool...it needs to go through the head-coach so he can tell you to go eff yourself. Until there is some top-down structure and not some amoebas cauldron of "rule guys" and "guideline guys" we're not going to ever get back to being a consistent winner.

hurrykaine 01-04-2010 03:07 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=Lotus;649681]Dang. We all knew stuff like this was going on but I did not know it was this bad.

Bruce and Mike, right this ship![/quote]

On a different note, Bruce - could we get rid of Wynn and Daniels? - the so called "locker room" leaders who haven't performed over the years. I can't stand those two fuckers and their righteous tirades after we get our a$$ kicked. Righteous guys with no talent are as much a symptom of what's wrong with this organization as uber-high-priced free agents. Rock can bolt too as far as I'm concerned - no way he's worth the $1.6 odd million he is due next year.

JoeRedskin 01-04-2010 03:08 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
[quote=SmootSmack;649682]Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.[/quote]

For all the Snyder bashing, I really think Snyder's biggest problem is that he simply asks "What do you think we need to win?" and then goes out and "gets" whatever a trusted scout, coach or executive says is needed: "We need a big tackle"; "We need a new QB", etc. There doesn't seem to be anyone who says "Whoa there big fella - let's make sure all these 'gets' fit into a long-term successful plan".

To me, VC was [I]never[/I] gonna nix anything - "Sure, Mr. Snyder, yes, Mr. Snyder you're wonderful Mr. Snyder - get whatever they say will work Mr. Snyder." If it works, great - VC takes some credit for it. If it failed... well ... "Yes. Mr. Snyder it didn't work out but I relied on ____, Mr. Snyder. Clearly he screwed up Mr. Snyder ... It's probably Gregg Williams fault Mr. Snyder."

It's all conjecture, but I really think Cerrato was the rot in the apple. Hopefully, with him gone, the rot can be excised and accountability can return.

Mattyk 01-04-2010 03:11 PM

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 
BA pretty much said today the team needs to change the way they do business. I think this sort of stuff is what he was alluding to.


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