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skinster 04-10-2010 02:37 AM

building for a superbowl?
 
I have a question for everyone on this site, "What direction do you think we are headed in? Do you think we will have the pieces to win the super bowl in the next few years?'
My personal answer to that question is no way in hell. I feel like we are building our team to compete for the playoffs, not the superbowl. We simply have too many holes, and more will develop as our already old team gets even older. We do not have enough ammo to fill those holes in the next few years with our limited amount of draft picks. I guess this whole thread is really a reaction to the McNabb trade. I feel that you should only trade the number 35 overall pick and a third rounder for a 34 year old veteran when that 34 year old veteran will be the missing piece to your superbowl run. I do not believe we are close to a superbowl run, and trading away such keys to our future is ludicrous in my mind. Will McNabb significantly improve our team over the next few years? Yes without a doubt. But we simply do not have the pieces to make a run for the superbowl in the near future, and I feel like trading away future young talent is also trading away the chances of a superbowl for an even longer time. As excited as I am to see our teams improvement next year, I still strongly disapprove of our mentality of trading away the potential for future greatness to remain in mediocrity in the present.

And on a separate note, the eagles I feel made a brilliant move by trading within the division. Their key players are all young, Kolb, Jackson, Maclin, Celic, McCoy. I feel like they are looking toward the future in that trade because they know the trade will cripple us in the long run, while their young talent has time to develop, and they will bring in even more young talent. I do not feel like the Eagles care as much as this season as they do the a few seasons down the road. They know they do not currently have the pieces to truly make a superbowl run, and are trying to assemble the pieces to make one in the future. (I know I will hear alot of disagreement on this thought)

Last thing I wanted to say. In my mind, Shanahan is a great coach, but is TERRIBLE at assembling a roster. His best seasons were teams that he inherited. I feel like he historically has made numerous terrible trades (i.e. jarvis moss), has done a very poor job drafting future talent, and has done a poor job of signing the right free agents (and giving them alot of money, i.e Daniel Grahm). The talent that was on the Broncos team when McDaniels inherited it is a joke in my mind (specifically the defense). There were so many great holes on that team that in my mind they could have possibly had the worst talent in the NFL.

Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I've had to get these things off my chest, please share your thoughts on what I said.

Meks 04-10-2010 02:52 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
Lets just see how some of our younger guys play this season... and see how the rest of the off season pans out...
No offense but I really think u wasted ur time here

rbanerjee23 04-10-2010 03:00 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
I honestly don't think the eagles will be in that great of a shape...Kolb will really have to show up for them to have the same kind of offense. Westbrook is out, Desean Jackson was great because of McNabb and Kolb hasn't played any meaningful time.

Giantone 04-10-2010 04:29 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=skinster;686549]I have a question for everyone on this site, "What direction do you think we are headed in? Do you think we will have the pieces to win the super bowl in the next few years?'
.[/quote]

Isn't that what the goal is for everyteam?

davy 04-10-2010 05:30 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=rbanerjee23;686551]Desean Jackson was great because of McNabb.[/quote]

I'd love to know how you work that one out. :smashfrea

Dirtbag59 04-10-2010 06:24 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=davy;686554]I'd love to know how you work that one out. :smashfrea[/quote]

It's not far fetched. In fact it's frequently accepted that 9 times out of 10 the QB make the receiver not the other way around. We saw Randy Moss, thought to be the best reciever in the game miss a 1,000 yards in Oakland, Sydney Rice was a bust before Farve came in, and Vincent Jackson would likely be hanging on a string at this point had it not been for him catching passes from Rivers. You can also look at how the Saints have seemingly random guys constantly stepping up (for example Marquis Colston as a rookie). Wes Welker was average without Brady.

In fact there are only a few receivers in the game today that are capable of producing with average QB play. Those guys are currently Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, and Roddy White. Guys like Randy Moss and T.O used to be in this category.

The thing with Desean Jackson is you have to ask yourself how his career would have shaped up had we drafted him instead of Philly. To me Jackson is a very good receiver but without a good QB you would likely never know that.

Beemnseven 04-10-2010 06:52 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=skinster;686549]I have a question for everyone on this site, "What direction do you think we are headed in? Do you think we will have the pieces to win the super bowl in the next few years?'
My personal answer to that question is no way in hell. I feel like we are building our team to compete for the playoffs, not the superbowl. We simply have too many holes, and more will develop as our already old team gets even older. We do not have enough ammo to fill those holes in the next few years with our limited amount of draft picks. I guess this whole thread is really a reaction to the McNabb trade. I feel that you should only trade the number 35 overall pick and a third rounder for a 34 year old veteran when that 34 year old veteran will be the missing piece to your superbowl run. I do not believe we are close to a superbowl run, and trading away such keys to our future is ludicrous in my mind. Will McNabb significantly improve our team over the next few years? Yes without a doubt. But we simply do not have the pieces to make a run for the superbowl in the near future, and I feel like trading away future young talent is also trading away the chances of a superbowl for an even longer time. As excited as I am to see our teams improvement next year, I still strongly disapprove of our mentality of trading away the potential for future greatness to remain in mediocrity in the present.

And on a separate note, the eagles I feel made a brilliant move by trading within the division. Their key players are all young, Kolb, Jackson, Maclin, Celic, McCoy. I feel like they are looking toward the future in that trade because they know the trade will cripple us in the long run, while their young talent has time to develop, and they will bring in even more young talent. I do not feel like the Eagles care as much as this season as they do the a few seasons down the road. They know they do not currently have the pieces to truly make a superbowl run, and are trying to assemble the pieces to make one in the future. (I know I will hear alot of disagreement on this thought)

Last thing I wanted to say. In my mind, Shanahan is a great coach, but is TERRIBLE at assembling a roster. His best seasons were teams that he inherited. I feel like he historically has made numerous terrible trades (i.e. jarvis moss), has done a very poor job drafting future talent, and has done a poor job of signing the right free agents (and giving them alot of money, i.e Daniel Grahm). The talent that was on the Broncos team when McDaniels inherited it is a joke in my mind (specifically the defense). There were so many great holes on that team that in my mind they could have possibly had the worst talent in the NFL.

Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I've had to get these things off my chest, please share your thoughts on what I said.[/quote]

Wow skinster. You must have been in a pissy mood when you wrote that.

Denver was middle of the pack at worst when Shanahan was shown the door. To say that they had "the worst talent in the NFL" would be quite a stretch. If you're right, and we're building a playoff team, then that's the first step and it says this team is headed in the right direction.

Let's wait to see how the rest of the offseason works out. There's still the draft, still some trades to be made and we haven't seen the last new addition to the team. Super Bowl teams aren't built in a matter or 2 or 3 months.

davy 04-10-2010 07:38 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=Dirtbag359;686556]It's not far fetched. In fact it's frequently accepted that 9 times out of 10 the QB make the receiver not the other way around. We saw Randy Moss, thought to be the best reciever in the game miss a 1,000 yards in Oakland, Sydney Rice was a bust before Farve came in, and Vincent Jackson would likely be hanging on a string at this point had it not been for him catching passes from Rivers. You can also look at how the Saints have seemingly random guys constantly stepping up (for example Marquis Colston as a rookie). Wes Welker was average without Brady.

In fact there are only a few receivers in the game today that are capable of producing with average QB play. Those guys are currently Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, and Roddy White. Guys like Randy Moss and T.O used to be in this category.

The thing with Desean Jackson is you have to ask yourself how his career would have shaped up had we drafted him instead of Philly. To me Jackson is a very good receiver but without a good QB you would likely never know that.[/quote]

All valid points but he did have over 100yds receiving both games that Kolb started and he didn't get a lot of help from Mcnabb while returning punts or running reverses.

Longtimefan 04-10-2010 07:55 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
The poster makes some excellent points, the results of which demonstrate why the Eagles have maintained long term success within the division and our course of action has been the reverse. They continue to infuse the team with young talent and develop it. There's nothing to develop when you build with older players, when they're done the only alternative is to procure more older players.

As to building for a super-bowl......I'm convinced Shanahan came here to win, he's void of a thirty year plan. So, with a GM and HC both embracing "the future is now " doctrine, I would say the team is currently being constructed towards making that the ultimate goal in a short period of time.

Beemnseven 04-10-2010 08:16 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=Longtimefan;686564]The poster makes some excellent points, the results of which demonstrate why the Eagles have maintained long term success within the division and our course of action has been the reverse. They continue to infuse the team with young talent and develop it. There's nothing to develop when you build with older players, when they're done the only alternative is to procure more older players.

As to building for a super-bowl......I'm convinced Shanahan came here to win, he's void of a thirty year plan. So, with a GM and HC both embracing "the future is now " doctrine, I would say the team is currently being constructed towards making that the ultimate goal in a short period of time.[/quote]


Len Pasquarelli basically [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=5058639"]said[/URL] the same thing just after the trade for Donovan McNabb:

[quote]Owner Dan Snyder has failed before in trying to buy a title. He might employ a new general manager and a new coach, but they appear to have fallen for the same ill-advised approach that derailed their predecessors . . . The Redskins ... would prefer to buy talent rather than take the time to develop it.[/quote]

I've been thinking about this, because for a long time I've wanted to see this organization build from a foundation of young, promising players, stockpile draft picks, and essentially tough it out for a season or two while the young guys learn even if it means sucking it up with some losing seasons.

Clearly though, Shanahan and Allen don't see it that way. But then I thought, who really does anymore? When was the last time you saw a team truly blow everything up, start from scratch ? The Colts with Peyton Manning come to mind, back in 1998. They had an awful season in '97, wound up with the first overall pick, but put together a long term winner with Polian built mainly with draft picks and had a long, slow climb to the top.

I just don't think you see that anymore. The Saints brought in a free agent QB in Drew Brees that got them to pinnacle, and the Cards had to do the same thing with Kurt Warner. With free agency, and now especially with the end of the salary cap, nobody seems to want to wait for two to three seasons for a slow, plodding build-up to championship status.

When you stop and think about it, we're doing what just about everyone else is trying to do, the only difference is that we haven't been successful.

Longtimefan 04-10-2010 08:42 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
[quote=Beemnseven;686566]Len Pasquarelli basically [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=5058639"]said[/URL] the same thing just after the trade for Donovan McNabb:



I've been thinking about this, because for a long time I've wanted to see this organization build from a foundation of young, promising players, stockpile draft picks, and essentially tough it out for a season or two while the young guys learn even if it means sucking it up with some losing seasons.

Clearly though, Shanahan and Allen don't see it that way. But then I thought, who really does anymore? When was the last time you saw a team truly blow everything up, start from scratch ? The Colts with Peyton Manning come to mind, back in 1998. They had an awful season in '97, wound up with the first overall pick, but put together a long term winner with Polian built mainly with draft picks and had a long, slow climb to the top.

I just don't think you see that anymore. The Saints brought in a free agent QB in Drew Brees that got them to pinnacle, and the Cards had to do the same thing with Kurt Warner. With free agency, and now especially with the end of the salary cap, nobody seems to want to wait for two to three seasons for a slow, plodding build-up to championship status.

When you stop and think about it, we're doing what just about everyone else is trying to do, the only difference is that we haven't been successful.[/quote]

I agree......and to prove your point, most coaches in the game today only get a short period of time to develop their young players and win simultaneously. Coaches that are in a position where the pressuse is on to win or be gone feel the need to gravitate towards the older player in hopes of producing immediate results.

It always helps to have that established QB like in the Eagles case. Reid and McNabb have been together from the beginning, having that foundation has made it easier for them to year after year continue to add good young talent to an already productive nucleus.

#56fanatic 04-10-2010 08:52 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
i for one am excited regarding this move. We bring in a QB that wins games, that brings that winning feeling into the locker room. Guy that has played in meaningful games year in and year out. Building for superbowl? who cares! We haven't won shit in 10 years. wouldn't it be great to go to the playoffs every year...compete for 10 - 11 wins every year?? Not that this is a guarentee but the guy wins games. As far as building, i think we still have the opportunity to get younger and stronger. Adding a 33 year old QB doesn't change that. We have young WR, young TE, Oline is getting younger with the drafting of Olineman(hopefully) Our D is getting younger with Haynesworth, Orakpo, McIntosh. the corners are young the safeties are young. I think we have made some good moves this offseason. and usually I am the biggest hater on here. I think McNabb has 3 to 4 very good years left. This offense is capable of putting up 35 points a game next year. My worry is the D switching to a new scheme may hurt us a little, but we still have ballers on that side of the ball. I honestly think this is going to be a great year for us Skins fans!!!

CapitalPunishment 04-10-2010 09:05 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
I just heard a rumor on the radio that part (not sure how much of a part) of their reasoning for trading McNabb to the skins was to discourage them from drafting Bradford if he were to be available at 4. They said that the Eagles don't want to face him for the next 10 yrs. Another typical stretch rumor leading up to the draft. On a side note, I read that they are going to implode the old Cowboys stadium soon. I'd love for them to sell of the opportunity to press the switch the bring that place to the ground!

CRedskinsRule 04-10-2010 09:16 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
They actually auctioned off the button pushing responsibility
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4786874&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines]Kraft Foods to sponsor demolition of Texas Stadium - ESPN Dallas[/url]

RememberRFK 04-10-2010 09:22 AM

Re: building for a superbowl?
 
I believe that what you are seeing from the front office and coaching staff is a direction the team wants to go in. Sure, they might not have the youth or talent that we want them to have but success is not usually immediate. We do have the next two or three years to see how the team pans out. We got to see two years of Cerrato & Zorn and we all can see the hugh strategy differences immediately from them to the current admin. It's too early to be talking superbowl but I like the drive, determination and focus this entire team has in the making.


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