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dmek25 07-03-2010 09:33 AM

how to balance the budget?
 
[URL="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100702/US.California.Budget.Minimum.Wage/"][COLOR=#0073ae]Court Sides with Schwarzenegger[/COLOR][/URL]
nothing like making someone else pay for your mistakes. this stinks to high heaven

A cut to a minimum wage would mean state workers would make the equivalent of $15,000 a year. The average state worker makes $65,000 annually, according to the state Department of Personnel Administration.

Schneed10 07-03-2010 10:29 AM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=dmek25;710524][URL="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100702/US.California.Budget.Minimum.Wage/"][COLOR=#0073ae]Court Sides with Schwarzenegger[/COLOR][/URL]
nothing like making someone else pay for your mistakes. this stinks to high heaven

A cut to a minimum wage would mean state workers would make the equivalent of $15,000 a year. The average state worker makes $65,000 annually, according to the state Department of Personnel Administration.[/quote]

Gotta balance it somehow, or you just drive the state further into debt. It's a shame but that's reality these days.

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 11:13 AM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=Schneed10;710527]Gotta balance it somehow, or you just drive the state further into debt. It's a shame but that's reality these days.[/quote]

That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.

saden1 07-03-2010 12:43 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy [B]more people on government assistance[/B] and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]


You caught that too? Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Schneed10 07-03-2010 03:12 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]

Pfft. JTF is going to lecture me on economics. Is anybody else amused by this?

Foreclosure is simply an evening out process, it puts the nation at a whole in no worse shape. Someone loses an asset (the house) but they also lose the liability (the mortgage). The bank who forecloses picks up the asset and also the liability. It's a zero-sum game, the net impact is none to the US Economy. The family who lost the house moves into an apartment they can actually afford, and life goes on.

If you're cutting spending by reducing wages to minimum wage, you're not putting people on government assistance. They'll make a low salary, but not so little to qualify for welfare or Medicaid. Remember, they're losing their wages, but they're not losing their benefits. They'll still have the same (tremendous) healthcare plan currently available to state workers.

I get what you're attempting to say though (albeit in an ignorant fashion): cutting government spending hurts the citizens. But if you don't bring spending into line with the tax revenue coming in, you drive the country into debt, which causes inflation and a severe weakening of the US dollar. In five years, the cost of your happy meal at McDonalds can easily go from $3 to $6.

That's the kind of inflation we saw in the 1970s and it hurt an awful lot of people. In the end, the government needs to spend whatever it's citizens can support. If the citizens can't generate the tax revenue to keep up with government spending, you end up with a lot of long-term economic pain.

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 03:18 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=Schneed10;710541]Pfft. JTF is going to lecture me on economics. Is anybody else amused by this?

Foreclosure is simply an evening out process, it puts the nation at a whole in no worse shape. Someone loses an asset (the house) but they also lose the liability (the mortgage). The bank who forecloses picks up the asset and also the liability. It's a zero-sum game, the net impact is none to the US Economy. The family who lost the house moves into an apartment they can actually afford, and life goes on.

If you're cutting spending by reducing wages to minimum wage, you're not putting people on government assistance. They'll make a low salary, but not so little to qualify for welfare or Medicaid. Remember, they're losing their wages, but they're not losing their benefits. They'll still have the same (tremendous) healthcare plan currently available to state workers.

I get what you're attempting to say though (albeit in an ignorant fashion): cutting government spending hurts the citizens. But if you don't bring spending into line with the tax revenue coming in, you drive the country into debt, which causes inflation and a severe weakening of the US dollar. In five years, the cost of your happy meal at McDonalds can easily go from $3 to $6.

That's the kind of inflation we saw in the 1970s and it hurt an awful lot of people. In the end, the government needs to spend whatever it's citizens can support. If the citizens can't generate the tax revenue to keep up with government spending, you end up with a lot of long-term economic pain.[/quote]


The Bush Tax cuts is what made this. Bush Tax cuts repeal, problem solved. right??? This was created by the Bush tax cuts. Yeah I'm lecturing you on economics. Get your hustle on!!!!

steveo395 07-03-2010 03:29 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]
I usually try to stay out of these arguments, but whatever. Cutting spending does help an economy because it puts more money into the private sector. All government spending does it take money from the private sector and then just puts a percentage of that money back in. It doesn't work. The government does not make money, it just takes it from people who make money.

Have you noticed that all of this government spending has not worked? We are borrowing $1.5 trillion dollars per year to "help the economy" and it is not getting better. All we are doing is screwing over our future. Spending a shit load of money didn't work in the great depression either. It doesn't work.

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 04:29 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=steveo395;710543]I usually try to stay out of these arguments, but whatever. Cutting spending does help an economy because it puts more money into the private sector. All government spending does it take money from the private sector and then just puts a percentage of that money back in. It doesn't work. The government does not make money, it just takes it from people who make money.

Have you noticed that all of this government spending has not worked? We are borrowing $1.5 trillion dollars per year to "help the economy" and it is not getting better. All we are doing is screwing over our future. Spending a shit load of money didn't work in the great depression either. It doesn't work.[/quote]

We are borrowing money because of the Bush Tax cuts. According to your theory after the Bush tax cuts we should be in Nirvana by now. Why cut taxes when you know you can't cut Social Security. That's being intellectually dishonest. Now tell me who can cut spending on Social Security? We are spending 1 trillion dollars this year on war. We borrowing that. That is where the deficit is coming from. An oh by the way, that spending took us out of a depression. Why u think the Democrats won all those congressional seats. It was because of all the job loses
(8 million lost, most gone forever).

steveo395 07-03-2010 05:23 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710545]We are borrowing money because of the Bush Tax cuts. According to your theory after the Bush tax cuts we should be in Nirvana by now. Why cut taxes when you know you can't cut Social Security. That's being intellectually dishonest. Now tell me who can cut spending on Social Security? We are spending 1 trillion dollars this year on war. We borrowing that. That is where the deficit is coming from. An oh by the way, that spending took us out of a depression. Why u think the Democrats won all those congressional seats. It was because of all the job loses
(8 million lost, most gone forever).[/quote]
Part of the reason we're borrowing money is because of the Bush tax cuts. The Republicans are retarded and cut taxes without cutting spending. You have to do both.

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid all need to be cut somehow or were screwed. They are all basically Ponzi schemes that are legal because the government is doing them. All those programs are broke and we can't just keep increasing taxes to pay for all these entitlements. What do you think is happening in Greece and the rest of Europe right now?

Defense spending was $782 billion last year, most of that wasn't on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but I agree the spending is too high. We have spent about $1 trillion total since 2001 on the wars, not just last year. I'm all for ending the wars as soon as possible, as is everybody, but thats not easy to do. One way to cut this budget though is to get our troops out of all these random countries around the world, like in Europe and Japan. Why can't they protect themselves.

And no, the new deal did not take us out of the depression, World War 2 did. Unemployment was over 15% between 1931 and 1940. All that spending did not help the economy. FDR's Treasury Secretary, Henry Morgenthau, Jr. even admitted it didn't work in 1939 when addressing the House Ways and Means Committee: [I]“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”[/I]

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 06:36 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[B]Steveo[/B]


I wasn't speaking of the Great Depression, I was speaking of the Bush Depression. Greece has nothing to do with America's future. Greece's retirement age is at 51. If we had a retirement age of 51 we would be in their situation too. The defense budget is not how much we spend , it is how much we admit we are spending.

Here's the quote: [B]"This is my rifle!"[/B]

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]

When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] An additional $33 billion supplemental bill to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was expected to pass in the spring of 2010, but has been delayed by the House of Representatives after passing the Senate.[5][6] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $880 billion and [B]$1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010[/B].[7]

Here's the link: [B]"This is my gun!"[/B]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States]Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]


[B]This is for fighting and this is for fun!!!!![/B]

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 06:39 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png[/IMG]

joethiesmanfan 07-03-2010 06:40 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710549][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png[/IMG][/quote]

We better be glad we only owe 12 trillion dollars.

Schneed10 07-03-2010 10:11 PM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=joethiesmanfan;710542]The Bush Tax cuts is what made this. Bush Tax cuts repeal, problem solved. right??? This was created by the Bush tax cuts. Yeah I'm lecturing you on economics. Get your hustle on!!!![/quote]

That's so horribly incorrect that I can't even consider this a debate worth having.

Not sure I did in the first place, come to think of it.

JoeRedskin 07-04-2010 12:39 AM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
Scneed - its JTF, facts, actual history and reality have no bearing on his point of view. For rational people, bound by logic, it's pointless to debate him.

Me, I am just awed at his capability for self-deception. It is just epic. Truly amazing.

GMScud 07-04-2010 12:50 AM

Re: how to balance the budget?
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;710557]Scneed - its JTF, facts, actual history and reality have no bearing on his point of view. For rational people, bound by logic, it's pointless to debate him.

Me, I am just awed at his capability for self-deception. It is just epic. Truly amazing.[/quote]

LOL. I know. I nearly spit my scotch all over the computer in laughter when he said "we are spending 1 trillion dollars THIS YEAR on war." I mean come on. There are plenty of folks around here with more political/economic knowledge than I (Schneed10, Saden, you, SS33, etc), but that comment was tell tale.


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