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-   -   GPS Tracking (http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/38104-gps-tracking.html)

CRedskinsRule 08-26-2010 09:32 AM

GPS Tracking
 
According to the 9th District Court, tracking your car is not an unreasonable invasion of privacy, and you have no expectation of privacy in your driveway.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000]The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS - Yahoo! News[/url]

I find this a bit over-reaching for at least 2 reasons.

1) I would hope that most here would agree that it is one thing to say "okay, my car may be viewed at any time." and a far different thing to say the police have the right to track my specific movements 24 hours a day, whether or not I leave my car parked in the driveway, public lot, or any other accessible area.

2) What happens if I pull into my garage after they attach a tracking device, do they have to turn it off since I now have a reasonable expectation of privacy?

Overall, without reading the actual case and underlying complaint, this seems like a bad interpretation of the 4th amendment.

cpayne5 08-26-2010 10:14 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
This has been the case for a while. It was explained to me that the authorities only needed a warrant if they were to install a device that was powered by the vehicle, else (self powered), no warrant necessary. This has been common practice for a long time, spanning many presidential administrations.

tryfuhl 08-26-2010 11:05 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
Completely ridiculous.

Dirtbag59 08-27-2010 12:06 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
I don't mind this at all. Lots of good can come from it, especially in regards to situations such as Amber alerts. What I don't want is what the rental car companies have in place where they fine you for going over the speed limit thanks to software that tracks how fast you go on certain roads.

artmonkforhallofamein07 08-27-2010 12:29 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
In certain situations, this is useful, but for the most part this is an invasion of privacy and I guess gives me a reason to continue to not use GPS and stick to the old school method of a map.

I find it very funny when friends of mine who have gps, especially the older crowd that I know, who freak out when the gps is not working. Hearing things like I cant go out of town without my gps working... why? 10 years ago these same people were using maps with ease with out having some computer chick voice telling them where to go. And is it just me or do they not work that well sometimes.

I have alot of fond memories being my dad's navigator on long road trips as a kid. Great way to bond with the old man as wel as a good way to pass the time when in the car for hours.

CRedskinsRule 08-27-2010 12:30 AM

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;724426]I don't mind this at all. Lots of good can come from it, especially in regards to situations such as Amber alerts. What I don't want is what the rental car companies have in place where they fine you for going over the speed limit thanks to software that tracks how fast you go on certain roads.[/QUOTE]. Usuallyv amber alerts are such that if they can find the car they find the criminal thus no need to set up tracking. The point being that they don't need to get a warrant thus they don't need a probable cause to apply it. What if a police team put a tracker on your car, and sent you tickets for every instance you were speeding. It would be legal according to this court ruling.
To be clear if the police have probable cause to think you kidnapped someone and tracking your vehicle helped save that person great but get a warrant, even on an expedited process, and then do the deed. Its the lack of oversight that is my issue, not the tracking ittself

tryfuhl 08-27-2010 01:11 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=Dirtbag359;724426]I don't mind this at all. Lots of good can come from it, especially in regards to situations such as Amber alerts. What I don't want is what the rental car companies have in place where they fine you for going over the speed limit thanks to software that tracks how fast you go on certain roads.[/quote]
you realize that most kidnappings aren't known of well in advance? an amber alert is oftentimes a very immediate response to a missing child, not something that's had an eye kept on it for awhile

firstdown 08-27-2010 10:54 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=Dirtbag359;724426]I don't mind this at all. Lots of good can come from it, especially in regards to situations such as Amber alerts. What I don't want is what the rental car companies have in place where they fine you for going over the speed limit thanks to software that tracks how fast you go on certain roads.[/quote]

I'd love to know what rental companies track their customers speed?

artmonkforhallofamein07 08-27-2010 11:12 AM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;724432]. Usuallyv amber alerts are such that if they can find the car they find the criminal thus no need to set up tracking. The point being that they don't need to get a warrant thus they don't need a probable cause to apply it. What if a police team put a tracker on your car, and sent you tickets for every instance you were speeding. It would be legal according to this court ruling.
To be clear if the police have probable cause to think you kidnapped someone and tracking your vehicle helped save that person great but get a warrant, even on an expedited process, and then do the deed. Its the lack of oversight that is my issue, not the tracking ittself[/quote]

Agreed.

CRedskinsRule 08-27-2010 12:05 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=firstdown;724516]I'd love to know what rental companies track their customers speed?[/quote]
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130872&page=1]Rental Car Company Tracks Customers - ABC News[/url]

firstdown 08-27-2010 12:17 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=CRedskinsRule;724537][URL="http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130872&page=1"]Rental Car Company Tracks Customers - ABC News[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the link. I deal with the bigger companies and my daughter works for enterprise and I was very curious about your statement. While I'm in the insurance business if I found out that a rental car company was tracking my customers like this it would be the last time I refer them to a customer.

Mattyk 08-27-2010 12:44 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=firstdown;724545]Thanks for the link. I deal with the bigger companies and [B]my daughter works for enterprise[/B] and I was very curious about your statement. While I'm in the insurance business if I found out that a rental car company was tracking my customers like this it would be the last time I refer them to a customer.[/quote]

Sorry to hear that, heard they can be brutal to work for. I have a buddy that worked there for a long time, he ended up leaving after getting screwed over several times.

GhettoDogAllStars 08-27-2010 12:46 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
"Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, who dissented from this month's decision refusing to reconsider the case, pointed out whose homes are not open to strangers: rich people's. The court's ruling, he said, means that people who protect their homes with electric gates, fences and security booths have a large protected zone of privacy around their homes. People who cannot afford such barriers have to put up with the government sneaking around at night."

Just a microcosm of our society.

CRedskinsRule 08-27-2010 12:59 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;724558]"Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, who dissented from this month's decision refusing to reconsider the case, pointed out whose homes are not open to strangers: rich people's. The court's ruling, he said, means that people who protect their homes with electric gates, fences and security booths have a large protected zone of privacy around their homes. People who cannot afford such barriers have to put up with the government sneaking around at night."

Just a microcosm of our society.[/quote]

See, I guess I would expect that your car is an extension of your property, and you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy as it relates to police access. I don't know the case law, but when police stop you, what is in hands reach is public, but they can't search anywhere else without a warrant or your approval. This seems to undermine that principle in that they can clearly go into places you would not normally check and place an intrusive device in such a way that you would have no knowledge of it. Again, if they have a warrant and probable cause ok. One more question, I am curious about if anyone knows. Can a private investigator, or even an average joe, do the same thing, legally? Could I, for example, place a GPS tracking device on my ex-wife's car, and then later use those results in court? (I am not, nor do I have any intention of, doing this!)

Lotus 08-27-2010 07:53 PM

Re: GPS Tracking
 
Agreed CRed. I am law abiding and if they want to waste their time by following me to work or the grocery, so be it. But the idea that they can come on your property, place an electronic tracking device on your vehicle, and then follow you, all without a warrant, seems to me blatantly unConstitutional. I don't even see where the argument is unless someone is reading a different Bill of Rights than I am.


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