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-   -   Austerity (http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/40646-austerity.html)

mlmpetert 12-23-2010 05:02 PM

Austerity
 
So with regards to what you see happening on a regular basis in Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain along with other countries like France and even England when “entitlements” are reduced or cut do you think theres a chance of anything like that happening here?

I think it would be nice to keep track of all the protest and uproar along with cuts both here and in Europe. Heres 3 things I saw today without even looking:

Alabama town that stopped paying its pension:
[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/business/23prichard.html?_r=2&emc=eta1"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/business/23prichard.html?_r=2&emc=eta1[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
16 US cities head for bankruptcy
[URL="http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/16-u.s.-cities-that-could-face-bankruptcy-in-2011-535744.html"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080]http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/16-u.s.-cities-that-could-face-bankruptcy-in-2011-535744.html[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
Maerriam – Websters Word of the year, “austerity”:
[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101222/bs_ac/7451854_austerity_is_merriamwebsters_word_of_the_year_for2010"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101222/bs_ac/7451854_austerity_is_merriamwebsters_word_of_the_year_for2010[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL]

Schneed10 12-23-2010 11:08 PM

Re: Austerity
 
I think Social Security is a big area where benefits will be adjusted one of these days. When it was put into place they made the retirement age 65, people didn't live much longer than that. Now the retirement age is still 65 but a lot of people are living into their 80s. Obviously that's a drain on the system.

With baby boomers retiring the funds will be drawn down and will run out of cash somewhere between 2030 - 2040. They have no choice, they will have to push back the retirement age or cut benefits.

Of course they could modify the investments in the program's portfolio, that would solve a good portion of the problem.

firstdown 12-24-2010 09:35 AM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=Schneed10;772022]I think Social Security is a big area where benefits will be adjusted one of these days. When it was put into place they made the retirement age 65, people didn't live much longer than that. Now the retirement age is still 65 but a lot of people are living into their 80s. Obviously that's a drain on the system.

With baby boomers retiring the funds will be drawn down and will run out of cash somewhere between 2030 - 2040. They have no choice, they will have to push back the retirement age or cut benefits.

[B]Of course they could modify the investments in the program's portfolio, that would solve a good portion of the problem[/B].[/quote]


What investments? Thats the problem they have spent all the SS money on other stuff. Once again its not a money problem its a spending problem.

When you see what they riot over in France and other countries it makes you want to laugh. Funny thing is while they have realized that they cannot afford these programs any longer we are moving closer toward them.

SirClintonPortis 12-25-2010 01:15 AM

Re: Austerity
 
It seems that people can't help but behave that as if the supply of tax money as "infinite" when it is certainly not. They are totally oblivious to the fact that governments eventually have to break even.

mlmpetert 12-25-2010 04:04 PM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=SirClintonPortis;772190]It seems that people can't help but behave that as if the supply of tax money as "infinite" when it is certainly not. They are totally oblivious to the fact that governments eventually have to break even.[/quote]

I think there are 2 camps. Those that are completely oblivious to the fact that the government doesnt have a infinite supply of money to provide services. I can understand that, its sad and unfortunately not everyone can grasp that.

Then there is the bigger issue in my mind.... Those that think its okay to raise money from larger earners when a windfall is needed. From a values standpoint thats just morally wrong in my eyes.

mlmpetert 02-18-2011 02:52 PM

Re: Austerity
 
[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/18/republicans-challenging-unions-state-capitols/]Wisconsin's Anti-Union Bill in Limbo as GOP Sends State Troopers After Missing Democrats - FoxNews.com[/url]


My moms a teacher, and i feel for these people but i think you have to blame the unions. Politicans will promise anything to get elected, and unions have a lot of power to elect people. Now people are getting screwed over. I think its going to happen on a much larger scale in time, but i guess you have to look at it in that some of these benefits should have NEVER been made in the fist place.

Sums it up for me:

“I've said all along the thousands of people who are storming the capitol have every right to be heard, but I'm not going to let them overshadow the voices of the millions of taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin who deserve to be heard, as well.”

CRedskinsRule 02-18-2011 03:12 PM

Re: Austerity
 
People are trying to compare this to Egypt, but it is more akin to the Greek labor unrest where unions have had so much sway for so long, and when the piper comes a callin' ain't not too many people happy.

firstdown 02-18-2011 04:09 PM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=mlmpetert;785160][URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/18/republicans-challenging-unions-state-capitols/"]Wisconsin's Anti-Union Bill in Limbo as GOP Sends State Troopers After Missing Democrats - FoxNews.com[/URL]


My moms a teacher, and i feel for these people but i think you have to blame the unions. Politicians will promise anything to get elected, and unions have a lot of power to elect people. Now people are getting screwed over. I think its going to happen on a much larger scale in time, but i guess you have to look at it in that some of these benefits should have NEVER been made in the fist place.

Sums it up for me:

“I've said all along the thousands of people who are storming the capitol have every right to be heard, but I'm not going to let them overshadow the voices of the millions of taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin who deserve to be heard, as well.”[/quote]

Screwed. Right now they are asking for them to chip in 5.8 (something like that) toward THEIR retirement and then something toward their health ins. The collective bargaining is about their benefits and not their salary if I read this correctly. So right now its not that big of a hit on them. They have no clue about the real world and what people have to face in the private sector. Sense I have had my agency I have lost my health care, pension, and any other benefit as an employee and now get paid by 1099. I'm not complaining just pointing out these people just don't have a clue and allot of them are not even from WI. Then you have the kids who's teacher brought them to protest and they don't even know what they are protesting. Those teachers should be fired. My mother quit the teachers union years ago because she realized its not about the kids anymore with the unions.

Schneed10 02-18-2011 04:50 PM

Re: Austerity
 
Unions are ridiculous entities in most cases. Most union leadership doesn't understand a lick about finances.

How can you argue for more benefits when doing so would bankrupt the entity that pays you? Ridiculous.

dmek25 02-19-2011 07:52 AM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=mlmpetert;785160][URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/18/republicans-challenging-unions-state-capitols/"]Wisconsin's Anti-Union Bill in Limbo as GOP Sends State Troopers After Missing Democrats - FoxNews.com[/URL]


My moms a teacher, and i feel for these people[B] but i think you have to[/B] [B]blame the unions[/B]. Politicans will promise anything to get elected, and unions have a lot of power to elect people. Now people are getting screwed over. I think its going to happen on a much larger scale in time, but i guess you have to look at it in that some of these benefits should have NEVER been made in the fist place.

Sums it up for me:

“I've said all along the thousands of people who are storming the capitol have every right to be heard, but I'm not going to let them overshadow the voices of the millions of taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin who deserve to be heard, as well.”[/quote]
explain this to me. its easy to criticize the unions, for the contracts are black and white, very simple for any moron to read. have any idea how these contracts became the rule. there was, is, and always will be 2 parties sitting at the table NEGOIATING what the pay, and benefits will be. mimpetert, any idea who was sitting across from the union heads at these tables. maybe that's where you need to look for blame. if someone offers you 100.00 an hour, will you take it? your damn right you will. get off the common folk and lay the blame where it should be

Schneed10 02-19-2011 10:38 AM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=dmek25;785248]explain this to me. its easy to criticize the unions, for the contracts are black and white, very simple for any moron to read. have any idea how these contracts became the rule. there was, is, and always will be 2 parties sitting at the table NEGOIATING what the pay, and benefits will be. mimpetert, any idea who was sitting across from the union heads at these tables. maybe that's where you need to look for blame. if someone offers you 100.00 an hour, will you take it? your damn right you will. get off the common folk and lay the blame where it should be[/quote]

The problem with the common folk is they have a common understanding of the real world. The common folk contributed to the debt crisis in this nation through a lack of understanding of sub prime mortgages, variable rate mortgages, and the value of saving. The same common folk love to threaten strikes to negotiate benefits that would put their organizations on a path to bankruptcy.

Management got to management positions because they're smarter and recognize the situation.

Maybe I'm biased, and I'll certainly admit to arrogance. But I get pretty sick of sitting across the table from nursing unions who look at you with a blank stare when you explain that patient care will be compromised if we give the union what they're asking for. Their eyes glaze over, they don't understand, they dismiss the concern, and continue repeating their argument.

Unions are idiots. There's a reason they don't make it to management positions, they're not very smart.

And that's how I really feel. Peace.

GMScud 02-19-2011 03:44 PM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=Schneed10;785252]The problem with the common folk is they have a common understanding of the real world. The common folk contributed to the debt crisis in this nation through a lack of understanding of sub prime mortgages, variable rate mortgages, and the value of saving. The same common folk love to threaten strikes to negotiate benefits that would put their organizations on a path to bankruptcy.

Management got to management positions because they're smarter and recognize the situation.

Maybe I'm biased, and I'll certainly admit to arrogance. But I get pretty sick of sitting across the table from nursing unions who look at you with a blank stare when you explain that patient care will be compromised if we give the union what they're asking for. Their eyes glaze over, they don't understand, they dismiss the concern, and continue repeating their argument.

Unions are idiots. There's a reason they don't make it to management positions, they're not very smart.

And that's how I really feel. Peace.[/quote]

Good post. Totally agree.

dmek25 02-19-2011 09:55 PM

Re: Austerity
 
schneed your a bigger pompous then i thought. the blank stare you talk of is because the common folk are trying to figure out why they need to make concessions to give patients adequate care, while board members continue to rake in the cash. i guess your degree makes you a better qualified manager in the grand scheme of things. i guess? just because you know how to manipulate the common folk, by crying the blues. mean while, your quality of life remains unaffected. get off your high horse

Schneed10 02-20-2011 09:43 AM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=dmek25;785315]schneed your a bigger pompous then i thought. the blank stare you talk of is because the common folk are trying to figure out why they need to make concessions to give patients adequate care, while board members continue to rake in the cash. i guess your degree makes you a better qualified manager in the grand scheme of things. i guess? just because you know how to manipulate the common folk, by crying the blues. mean while, your quality of life remains unaffected. get off your high horse[/quote]

1) If you think board members are the ones who benefit from profits, you have an even worse misunderstanding of things than I thought.

2) If you think hospitals are big money makers, you have an even worse understanding of the healthcare system than I thought.

firstdown 02-20-2011 10:51 AM

Re: Austerity
 
[quote=dmek25;785248]explain this to me. its easy to criticize the unions, for the contracts are black and white, very simple for any moron to read. have any idea how these contracts became the rule. there was, is, and always will be 2 parties sitting at the table NEGOIATING what the pay, and benefits will be. mimpetert, any idea who was sitting across from the union heads at these tables. maybe that's where you need to look for blame. if someone offers you 100.00 an hour, will you take it? your damn right you will. get off the common folk and lay the blame where it should be[/quote]

Thats true but now that they cannot afford those contracts the other party will not sit back down at the table. This govoner was elected because he promised to change things so this is not news to the people in WI. They knew this was coming and now the unions and dems are acting like big babies. The average teachers pay in WI is almost 60 grand a year plus benefits so it not like they are way under paid. I think the state should fire the teachers that called in sick to protest but I'm guessing that their contract would not even allow this. I know if my worker lied to me they would be fired them.


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