rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

From what I'm reading, McIntosh, Moss, and Brown all aren't going to be with the team much longer. Fletcher is getting up there in years, we already seem to have many patch up players starting. The most important of which is qb. Things just aren't looking so good for us right now. I don't think we really have a shot at the playoffs no matter what we do, but do you guys think that even knowing that it is best to buy a bunch of free agents to be as competitive as possible this year, or just let our young guys get some experience?

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I support using free agency, but only to get players who are either fairly young with a lot of prime years ahead of them, or are older guys who we're not committing to long term.

One or two year deals for old vets as stopgaps/depth are fine to me. Like Vonnie Holliday.

We have more holes than we can fill via the draft. So targeted FA investments is the way to go.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Schneed10;801937][B]I support using free agency, but only to get players who are either fairly young with a lot of prime years ahead of them, or are older guys who we're not committing to long term.[/B]

[B]One or two year deals for old vets as stopgaps/depth are fine to me. Like Vonnie Holliday.[/B]

[B]We have more holes than we can fill via the draft. So targeted FA investments is the way to go[/B].[/quote]

Totally...we have already seen that the current regime is in a rebuilding mode (regardless of what it is called). They would be foolish to NOT use all avenues available to get there. It's a GREAT tool and I expect them to be extremely active......but not stupid.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Schneed10;801937]I support using free agency, but only to get players who are either fairly young with a lot of prime years ahead of them, or are older guys who we're not committing to long term.

One or two year deals for old vets as stopgaps/depth are fine to me. Like Vonnie Holliday.

We have more holes than we can fill via the draft. So targeted FA investments is the way to go.[/quote]

This.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;801935]From what I'm reading, McIntosh, Moss, and Brown all aren't going to be with the team much longer. Fletcher is getting up there in years, we already seem to have many patch up players starting. The most important of which is qb. [B]Things just aren't looking so good for us right now. [/B] I don't think we really have a shot at the playoffs no matter what we do, but do you guys think that even knowing that it is best to buy a bunch of free agents to be as competitive as possible this year, or just let our young guys get some experience?[/quote]

To say things do not look good for us right now is forgetting how bad we were at times in the last few seasons. Things haven't looked for us for the last couple of years.
We have been in denial about needing to rebuild because it sends a bad message to the fans. But is good that we are past that now. We have to rebuild. Not the end of the world. Just as long as we do it right.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I don't mind rebuilding. In fact, I welcome it! I think that is exactly what we are doing this year - starting the rebuilding phase. I'm curious to see who the Redskins will go after in free agency, but like Schneed said, go for free agents that are young and the older guys that are willing to be stop gaps for a year or two. No big name splashes unless the deal works for us and it satisfies a huge need.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;801935]From what I'm reading, McIntosh, Moss, and Brown all aren't going to be with the team much longer. Fletcher is getting up there in years, we already seem to have many patch up players starting. The most important of which is qb. [B]Things just aren't looking so good for us right now.[/B] I don't think we really have a shot at the playoffs no matter what we do, but do you guys think that even knowing that it is best to buy a bunch of free agents to be as competitive as possible this year, or just let our young guys get some experience?[/quote]

I beg to differ...........playoffs, probably no
BUT, with the exception of QB, we have the opportunity to be substancially better than last years effort, albeit younger and that is good as well.
AND QB is debatable as well. I can't wait!!

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I would like to see us sign a nice combination of younger guys and older vets (to shorter term deals) and just be smart about FA. I think the strategy that we had in the draft was a good one (even if I thought there was one too many trade downs). Even someone like asomugha makes me a little leery, true he is only 29 but I am sure it is going to take a huge contract to bring him here and by the time the rest of the team is ready to truly compete for a SB (3-4 years if everything goes well) he is going to be 32-33.

I am not saying I think we will be bad for 3-4 years, just not really ready to seriously compete for a SB

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Free agency will be needed to upgrade the OL - - because the draft did not focus there.

If the OL is not upgraded significantly, then serious team improvement is unlikely.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;801945]Free agency will be needed to upgrade the OL - - because the draft did not focus there.

If the OL is not upgraded significantly, then serious team improvement is unlikely.[/quote]

Agreed, wonder if any of the 10' class will get a serious look at playing time.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?!

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Selective free agents may be necessary in some areas to help improve the team. I don't anticipate a "frenzy" [so to speak] but I'm convinced everyone involved in procuring the talent necessary to make the team more competitive will be totally committed to that accomplishment.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=freddyg12;801951]Agreed, wonder if any of the 10' class will get a serious look at playing time.[/quote]

Having young and inexpensive players like Eric Cook and Selvish Capers have break out years and play well enough become a starter in the NFL would be ideal.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I think we will add a couple new starters on the OL, a QB, and a another rotation guy along the DL. I dont expect "superstar" signings anymore just due to the shift in FO thinking, which I think is the right move.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801952]What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

[B]Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?![/B][/quote]

Aye aye Captain.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801952]What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

[B]Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?![/B][/quote]

Please don't tempt them. :)

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

We have a plan.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=firstdown;801966]We [B]need [/B]a plan.[/quote]

.........Let's play dead

[url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090056/quotes?qt=qt0212785]Spies Like Us (1985) - Memorable quotes[/url]

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

The days of going nuts in free agency are over. We do have some needs to fill once free agency opens though.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I'm all for Free Agency as a rebuilding tool but with some caveats:

1. Don't overpay for a big name FA.
2. No turds.
3. Do multi-year deals for all young FA's signed.
4. Do one-year deals for all older, stop-gap FA's signed.
5. Choose FA's carefully.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801952]What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?![/quote]Luck 2012, SB in 2013 and beyond.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I don't think Luck is the end all answer for us. We have to many holes to fill and we may be more competitive than many think. Our schedule is the 3 easiest in the league next year.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801952]What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?![/quote]

"not much longer" I mean that I have heard that we don't want to extend Rocky, Moss doesn't want to stay here, Brown wants to be a starting LT somewhere, and Los wants out as well. They are all FA's this year.

But more so on top of that by "not much longer" is that even if some of these guys stay, how much longer will they be effective? by the time we get the pieces around them to fill the other holes on our team, many players on our team will be too old an ineffective and we will have to fill those new holes, not having a complete team.

I am 100% on board with the Luck proposal, I've been saying it for years. I'd much prefer to be absolutely terrible for a few years, get the core players we need in the draft, and then start to wreck shit up as opposed to staying in mediocrity forever. The lions and Rams will be two great teams a few years down the road...hell even look at the falcons now. The colts/chargers/giants would all be nothing if not for that one bad season they had. We need a great qb, and to get that we need to lose.
I'll personally be rooting for an 0-16 season, and get Andrew Luck. I would love watching our games even in those first few seasons when our rebuilding project begins, before we are good. I'd love to just watch young guys develop and watch the improvement of our team. And then when it all clicks together, I'd love that even more. Mediocrity is the worst thing you can be in football. You don't improve enough through the draft, and your team still pisses you off. I've been pissed off way too long. I want something to look forward to.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Moss has said he hopes to come back.

Sorry but rooting for 0-16 = retarded.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

IMO they should only sign free agents under the age of 26 to long term deals.

It still stings that they waited a year to start doing this. Trading for McNabb and Brown were two deals that should have never been done.

Again, only way to go is up.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801952]What do you mean by "not much longer" because if you mean 1 or 2 more years than yeah Moss won't be here much longer than that. Rocky is probably gone, but would we really miss him? Brown is very much a question mark.

Whatever, I say blow the whole team up and go for Luck. Who's with me?![/quote]

I swear if I thought it was possible I would do it...but it seems just as hard to be the worst team as it is to be the best. As bad as the last Zorn team was we were not even close to picking 1st. In theory I would easily give up 1 year for 10-15 years of Luck...

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;801992]I don't think Luck is the end all answer for us. We have to many holes to fill and we may be more competitive than many think. Our schedule is the 3 easiest in the league next year.[/quote]

I disagree. You can go without great guys at any position and win with the exception of qb. The qb is the end all be all, and if you don't have one your screwed. Granted your right in that you need to surround him with the right pieces to put him in a position to win, but if you have those pieces (many of them) and you don't have that QB, you are screwed.

I don't want to be "more competitive" than one might think. What does that even mean? we go 8-8? 9-7? Might as well go 0-16 because all teams that has no shot at winning the superbowl are the same in my eyes. And we get some middle grade draft picks that will ensure that we stay in medicority forever? talent needs to be infused on to our team, and the only way for that to happen is to get higher draft picks.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I don't like the term "frenzy" but I would like us to use free agency as long as we target mostly younger players. I believe free agency can be a part of rebuilding...it does not have to be cut and dry that you are not rebuilding unless it is 100% through the draft.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;801999]I disagree. You can go without great guys at any position and win with the exception of qb. The qb is the end all be all, and if you don't have one your screwed. Granted your right in that you need to surround him with the right pieces to put him in a position to win, but if you have those pieces (many of them) and you don't have that QB, you are screwed.

I don't want to be "more competitive" than one might think. What does that even mean? we go 8-8? 9-7? Might as well go 0-16 because all teams that has no shot at winning the superbowl are the same in my eyes. And we get some middle grade draft picks that will ensure that we stay in medicority forever? talent needs to be infused on to our team, and the only way for that to happen is to get higher draft picks.[/quote]

Okay and if so through the rebuilding process with your so called "middle grade draft picks" we don't do well because we are young and inexperienced and lose a lot of games so be it. That is part of the rebuilding process. But you make it sound like losing would be on purpose, a priority. That is just ignorant and asinine if you ask me.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Mattyk;801996]Moss has said he hopes to come back.

Sorry but rooting for 0-16 = retarded.[/quote]

You think that the rams are happy they were last?

Or the lions?

Or the Chargers?

Or the Colts?

Or the Broncos getting elway (just saying that cause luck reminds me of elway)?

I don't believe luck to be an alex smith/jamarcus russell/whoever else. This guy is the real deal.

I guarantee you that if we get last this year and pick luck, you will look back at this year as the best thing that ever happened to the redskins.

Your god damn right I'd scrap one meaningless year (get real, we have no shot this year) to be successful for the next 12.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

Damn, this is turning into a Luck thread too.

I can guarantee it won't be a FA frenzy. The last 15 years hasn't been too kind on our FA Frenzy philosophy.

I really want to draft Luck. I won't root to lose. Well, if we're playing the last game of the year and we need to lose to pick #1, I'll root to lose for the overall betterment of our team!!

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=SkinzWin;802001]Okay and if so through the rebuilding process with your so called "middle grade draft picks" we don't do well because we are young and inexperienced and lose a lot of games so be it. That is part of the rebuilding process. But you make it sound like losing would be on purpose, a priority. That is just ignorant and asinine if you ask me.[/quote]

I think its ignorant to think otherwise (even though I am aware I am in the vast minority). I can think of very few teams that were consistently average teams and then suddenly broke through to become top tier. These mediocre teams seem to all stay mediocre untill they suddenly drop to the bottom. I could go on for a while to tell you all the examples, but I'm sure you can look them up yourself. Being mediocre is delaying the inevitable of being terrible. Which is what seems to be happening to us now. Being kind of bad is not going to fix the problem. A true superstar needs to emerge. I think the lions and the rams are on their way to becoming legitimate teams. We need that superstar, and the best way to get him is with the first pick. Its very rare that Aaron Rodgers will fall into your lap in the 20's. The picks at the top of the 2nd/3rd round won't hurt either.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802002]You think that the rams are happy they were last?

Or the lions?

Or the Chargers?

Or the Colts?

Or the Broncos getting elway (just saying that cause luck reminds me of elway)?

I don't believe luck to be an alex smith/jamarcus russell/whoever else. This guy is the real deal.

I guarantee you that if we get last this year and pick luck, you will look back at this year as the best thing that ever happened to the redskins.

Your god damn right I'd scrap one meaningless year (get real, we have no shot this year) to be successful for the next 12.[/quote]

I agree with you. Most fans will not root for the team to lose though. they feel guilty or something like they are not a real fan.

I never actually cheer for the redskins to lose but once it's obvious the team is going no where I stop getting upset when they lose...that's the best i can do.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802005]I think its ignorant to think otherwise (even though I am aware I am in the vast minority). I can think of very few teams that were consistently average teams and then suddenly broke through to become top tier. These mediocre teams seem to all stay mediocre untill they suddenly drop to the bottom. I could go on for a while to tell you all the examples, but I'm sure you can look them up yourself. Being mediocre is delaying the inevitable of being terrible. Which is what seems to be happening to us now. Being kind of bad is not going to fix the problem. A true superstar needs to emerge. I think the lions and the rams are on their way to becoming legitimate teams. We need that superstar, and the best way to get him is with the first pick. Its very rare that Aaron Rodgers will fall into your lap in the 20's. The picks at the top of the 2nd/3rd round won't hurt either.[/quote]

Let's look at the last three Super Bowl winners, shall we?

Packers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Steelers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Last won fewer than 6 games in 1988. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Saints - their franchise QB was not even a first rounder. Hit bottom several years ago but used the pick to draft a role-player RB. Did not hit hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.

Therefore your theory is full of crap.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=Lotus;802007]Let's look at the last three Super Bowl winners, shall we?

Packers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Steelers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Last won fewer than 6 games in 1988. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Saints - their franchise QB was not even a first rounder. Hit bottom several years ago but used the pick to draft a role-player RB. Did not hit hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.

Therefore your theory is full of crap.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure I said in my previous post that its rare for a top flight qb to drop to the late first round for the packers, the packers were smart to pick him, but lucky that he dropped that far. They lucked out there. Plus we don't have Ted Thompson drafting for us.

Roethlessberger was 11 if I remember correctly. He's a tweener mid/high pick. Plus we don't dick lebeau or anywhere near the pieces on defense that the steelers have.

The next time a drew brees hits the FA market, yes I say we pounce on him immediately. But it is pretty unrealistic that is going to happen anytime soon.

Any team with a qb that escaped the first round just got lucky. QB's are too important. If they really believed in him, they wouldn't mess around.

But all of this is besides the point. Andrew Luck is John Elway. He is a can't miss prospect. This opportunity doesn't come along every year. If we miss out on him by a couple of wins, every redskins fan will look back on this year five years from now wondering how good we could be if we had Luck.

I don't know why anybody sees a difference between 1-15 and 6-10. Either way we suck, and have no chance of being truely competitive in this league. This is a lost season, and if you think otherwise, you are in denial.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

What we need are long term assets that can give us a lot of bang for the bucks.

FA rarely provides such things.

Even in the archaic Madden 2002 franchise mode, the FAs classes have players that:
1. have low ratings and are more expensive than comparable players taken from the draft
2. have high rating but are old as shit(sudden retirement and decrease in rating in the future) and cost a crapton of money.
3. are cheap but have shitty ratings. But there's always some "steal" FB or TE. lol

Right now, the only FAs we should be looking at are the cheap ones.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=celts32;802006]I agree with you. Most fans will not root for the team to lose though. they feel guilty or something like they are not a real fan.

I never actually cheer for the redskins to lose but once it's obvious the team is going no where I stop getting upset when they lose...that's the best i can do.[/quote]

If the team is too good in its current state to tank, they shouldn't tank. BUT, I would absolutely condone a GM weakening the team such that team will suck if the god-tier prospect is available. I call it the Guy Lafleur snatch.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

[quote=skinster;802010]I'm pretty sure I said in my previous post that its rare for a top flight qb to drop to the late first round for the packers, the packers were smart to pick him, but lucky that he dropped that far. They lucked out there. Plus we don't have Ted Thompson drafting for us.

Roethlessberger was 11 if I remember correctly. He's a tweener mid/high pick. Plus we don't dick lebeau or anywhere near the pieces on defense that the steelers have.

The next time a drew brees hits the FA market, yes I say we pounce on him immediately. But it is pretty unrealistic that is going to happen anytime soon.

Any team with a qb that escaped the first round just got lucky. QB's are too important. If they really believed in him, they wouldn't mess around.

But all of this is besides the point. Andrew Luck is John Elway. He is a can't miss prospect. This opportunity doesn't come along every year. If we miss out on him by a couple of wins, every redskins fan will look back on this year five years from now wondering how good we could be if we had Luck.

I don't know why anybody sees a difference between 1-15 and 6-10. Either way we suck, and have no chance of being truely competitive in this league. This is a lost season, and if you think otherwise, you are in denial.[/quote]

You missed the point: recent history shows that you don't have to pick a QB at #1 to win a Super Bowl.

Apply this lesson to next year and what we see is that some QB's in next year's draft other than Luck will be capable of winning a Super Bowl. We don't have to draft Luck to win it all.

Therefore we do not have to tank the season, as your factually incorrect and treasonous argument asserts.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

I dont have a problem with us losing if building blocks to our future are getting playing time. I would never root for us to lose of course. But if Hankerson, Austin, Jenkins, Capers, and Nield are out there playing and getting experience to make us a better team I'm ok with 4-12. If it's Roydell, Furrey, Maake, Hicks, and Holliday I'm not.

Re: rebuilding or FA frenzy?
 

And if you are rooting for 0-16, we better not once next season read any comments from you complaining about how we sucked, or I can't believe we missed that block, dropped that TD, made that call, etc.