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-   -   Chris Chester Signs (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=43072)

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 12:59 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816168]"Regime" sounds communist but I agree...we're on the right track and have some great leaders finally! [B]Now our blind optimism can be real optimism.[/B] :D[/quote]

Mine is more like nearsighted optimism. LOL.

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 01:05 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I come in here every season as one of the few optimists here...always hoping for the best. In the past I had to try to love the Vinny moves...and they always backfired.

Now, I can see some REAL progress and actually believe what I say when I think the team will be better.

We're really lucky to have hired both Allen and Shanahan. We really need to appreciate them after a decade of Snyder and Ceratto trying to do whatever they were trying to do.

Spurrier seemed like such a great idea at the time. Heath Shuler was so exciting...until he stepped on the field. :doh:

GTripp0012 07-29-2011 01:20 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I think Bruce Allen is a good executive (he's won exec of the year before in the NFL), and I think there's plenty of evidence from this offseason if you want to see he's a good executive.

But overpaying Bowen and Chester is overpaying Bowen and Chester. Allen's thing is good contracts, and he's lived up to the hype so far, but his last two signings are not good, team-friendly contracts.

It's still way too early to limit the parallels between Vinny Cerrato's show and Mike Shanahan's show. If Shanahan is different, he'll win more games. Two years under Cerrato, we averaged six wins per year. One year under Shanahan, we won six games. If our current executives are better than our prior ones, it will show in the results. I promise.

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 01:24 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=GTripp0012;816187]I think Bruce Allen is a good executive (he's won exec of the year before in the NFL), and I think there's plenty of evidence from this offseason if you want to see he's a good executive.

But overpaying Bowen and Chester is overpaying Bowen and Chester. Allen's thing is good contracts, and he's lived up to the hype so far, but his last two signings are not good, team-friendly contracts.

It's still way too early to limit the parallels between Vinny Cerrato's show and Mike Shanahan's show. If Shanahan is different, he'll win more games. Two years under Cerrato, we averaged six wins per year. One year under Shanahan, we won six games. If our current executives are better than our prior ones, it will show in the results. I promise.[/quote]

GTripp, I heard somewhere that with this new floor, salary contracts this offseason would be a bit inflated and that teams would overpay for players. Do you think this is true?

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 01:25 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
At least we didn't trade a Pro Bowl CB and 2nd-Round pick for a backup QB...then pay him $63 million. :D

GTripp0012 07-29-2011 01:26 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816190]GTripp, I heard somewhere that with this new floor, salary contracts this offseason would be a bit inflated and that teams would overpay for players. Do you think this is true?[/quote]There is no legislative incentive in 2011 for GMs to overpay players.

In the Redskins case, they enter 6 PM tonight with practically no player salary, so no one was saying they shouldn't spend money that they have. If I wanted to root for a penny pinching franchise, there's always the Bengals. But the cap freedom should just mean the freedom to make a bunch of good contracts that are team friendly and don't have to be structured with a limit in mind. The Redskins took on what appears to be two bad contracts in Bowen and Chester (I say appears because I haven't seen details on the Chester deal).

They are still no where near the 2011 salary cap for the record.

SirClintonPortis 07-29-2011 01:27 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816168]"Regime" sounds communist but I agree...we're on the right track and have some great leaders finally! Now our blind optimism can be real optimism. :D[/quote]

It's from French.

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 01:54 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=SirClintonPortis;816195]It's from French.[/quote]
Even worse than I thought then.

htownskinfan 07-29-2011 02:06 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=DCtoAZ;816158]can I say any louder that I LOVE THIS NEW REGIME .... little moves like this are what builds winners ... once you become the Patriots you can do the haynesworth, ochocinco moves but until then you have to have solid core players and build from that .. i love it .. we will be competitive ... i really think our offense is going to be smoother than we've seen in a LONG time and the Defense is getting younger, faster, and stronger .. WTF is going on, I feel like a real NFL team !! Let's celebrate in February not in July this is awesome ![/quote]

I wish I had your enthusiam and optimism but its still too early with this regime.Im still pissed at them for the Mcnabb trade,{total bust}and the Haynesworth situation,which is as much on Shanahan as it is Big Al.What kind of fing moron takes a top 5 defense and switches it when you have 100 million tied up in a guy that plays the 4-3? Nobody or nothing will ever be able to justify that switch to me.
On the other hand,am i happy with the moves theyve made the past few days,yes
But were still going into the season with John {WHO?}Beck and Kellen Clemons,not happy with that situation

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 02:27 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I'll give you, McNabb was a bust for us and that was Shanny's idea, but Donovan's to blame too.

Do you realize that AH was causing problems for Zorn too? You can't blame Shanahan one bit for starting that. For $100 million, Albert should have been the punter if asked. He showed in a few games that he COULD be a great NT if he put any effort at all into it, so the whole "I am not a NT" whining is ridiculous.

MTK 07-29-2011 02:30 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=GTripp0012;816187]I think Bruce Allen is a good executive (he's won exec of the year before in the NFL), and I think there's plenty of evidence from this offseason if you want to see he's a good executive.

But overpaying Bowen and Chester is overpaying Bowen and Chester. Allen's thing is good contracts, and he's lived up to the hype so far, but his last two signings are not good, team-friendly contracts.

It's still way too early to limit the parallels between Vinny Cerrato's show and Mike Shanahan's show. If Shanahan is different, he'll win more games. Two years under Cerrato, we averaged six wins per year. One year under Shanahan, we won six games. If our current executives are better than our prior ones, it will show in the results. I promise.[/quote]

Shouldn't we at least wait to see how they pan out on the field before determining if they are bad contracts or not. Plus we don't know how the contracts are even structured.

GTripp0012 07-29-2011 03:12 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Mattyk;816230]Shouldn't we at least wait to see how they pan out on the field before determining if they are bad contracts or not. Plus we don't know how the contracts are even structured.[/quote]I don't see why we would wait until their on the field considering the execs don't have that benefit.

I do want to see the structure of the Chester deal. I'm not afraid to change my judgement instantly if its different than what I'm expecting, see: the McNabb extension.

I'll just point out that paying backups like starters was the mistake made in 2006. That was the mistake with Lloyd, Randle El, Fauria, not their lack of talent, necessarily. Randle El actually ended up a pretty good player here, but he never did shake the stigma of the contract he signed.

skinsfan69 07-29-2011 03:47 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816191]At least we didn't trade a Pro Bowl CB and 2nd-Round pick for a backup QB...then pay him $63 million. :D[/quote]

And that's why the Cardinals are the Cardinals. That was one STUPID move. If I were them I just would've tried to get Bulger and keep the pick and your top corner. Terrible awful over pay. It seems that they've just gone downhill after that SB run.

skinsfan69 07-29-2011 03:51 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Mattyk;816230]Shouldn't we at least wait to see how they pan out on the field before determining if they are bad contracts or not. Plus we don't know how the contracts are even structured.[/quote]

I just kind of get the feeling that it's just the same old same old. The only move I really like is Cofield. He's at least shown he's a baller. The other guys are sort of so so. Let's sign guys and see who sticks. However I assume cause of the cap that we have to spend money? Is that correct since we're so far under the cap?

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 03:54 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=skinsfan69;816304]I just kind of get the feeling that it's just the same old same old. The only move I really like is Cofield. He's at least shown he's a baller. The other guys are sort of so so. Let's sign guys and see who sticks. However I assume cause of the cap that we have to spend money? Is that correct since we're so far under the cap?[/quote]

It's funny that you mention Cofield, b/c I see his signing somewhat similar to what we have done before, sign a FA that doesn't fit our scheme. Otherwise, I don't see how these signings are similar to the busts we have had before.

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 03:55 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=skinsfan69;816303]And that's why the Cardinals are the Cardinals. That was one STUPID move. If I were them I just would've tried to get Bulger and keep the pick and your top corner. Terrible awful over pay. It seems that they've just gone downhill after that SB run.[/quote]

I thought Orton was the best choice for them.

MTK 07-29-2011 04:01 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I'll be honest, I didn't know much about Chester or Bowen, good or bad, before yesterday. That said I'm willing to see what they've got before I write them off, or praise them as good signings. I'll give them an incomplete for now.

Thought this was interesting

[url=http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/18/secret-superstar-stephen-bowen-dallas-cowboys/]Secret Superstar: Stephen Bowen, Dallas Cowboys | ProFootballFocus.com[/url]

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 04:01 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816306]It's funny that you mention Cofield, b/c I see his signing somewhat similar to what we have done before, sign a FA that doesn't fit our scheme. Otherwise, I don't see how these signings are similar to the busts we have had before.[/quote]

Cofield has played nose tackle before. Just because the Giants have been running a 4-3 recently doesn't mean Cofield doesn't fit our scheme. He's over 300 pounds but is quick and gets to the QB. He'll do fine in the middle.



Here's a nice article/discussion about him:

[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/7/29/2301945/snide-debate-is-barry-cofield-the-answer-for-25th-ranked-defense"]Snide Debate: Is Barry Cofield The Answer for 25th Ranked Defense? - Hogs Haven[/URL]


More:
[URL="http://washington.cbslocal.com/2011/07/27/barry-cofield-signs-with-redskins/"]Barry Cofield Signs With Redskins « CBS Washington[/URL]

[URL="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/770887-nfl-rumors-latest-buzz-on-nfl-lockout-free-agency-and-more/entry/110774-nfl-rumors-washington-redskins-agree-to-terms-with-giants-dt-barry-cofield"]NFL Rumors: Washington Redskins Agree to Terms with Giants DT Barry Cofield | Bleacher Report[/URL]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hard-hits/post/redskins-could-use-barry-cofield-in-a-number-of-ways/2011/07/27/gIQAtg8pcI_blog.html"]Redskins could use Barry Cofield in a number of ways - Hard Hits - The Washington Post[/URL]

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 04:13 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816316]Cofield has played nose tackle before. Just because the Giants have been running a 4-3 recently doesn't mean Cofield doesn't fit our scheme. He's over 300 pounds but is quick and gets to the QB. He'll do fine in the middle.
[/quote]

Yes, but he's been a 4-3 DT for the Giants for his entire career. I'm sure he could be a fine NT, but once again if you are going to spend money you want someone that doesn't need to re-learn the position and/or needing to gain 20-30 lbs.

I'm not sh*tting on the signing, but I would have signed either Bowen or Cofield, and sign a NT with experience in a 3-4 position (i.e. Franklin).

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 04:14 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
We may not be done and Franklin has not signed anywhere yet.

Antonio Bryant could be valuable too, a lot of people are forgetting him. Plus, Jarvis Jenkins, pick #41 in the draft can play NT (we're planning on using him at end for now) and even Chris Nield too.

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 04:16 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816329]We may not be done and Franklin has not signed anywhere yet.[/quote]

I highly doubt we would sign Franklin at this point. I think getting Franklin would be better than having Cofield switch to NT.

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 04:18 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816332]I highly doubt we would sign Franklin at this point. I think getting Franklin would be better than having Cofield switch to NT.[/quote]

You're missing the point, he's not switching to NT...he has been a NT.

Played NT in college and was used like one occasionally with NY too.

sdskinsfan2001 07-29-2011 04:24 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816328]Yes, but he's been a 4-3 DT for the Giants for his entire career. I'm sure he could be a fine NT, but once again if you are going to spend money you want someone that doesn't need to re-learn the position and/or needing to gain 20-30 lbs.

I'm not sh*tting on the signing, but I would have signed either Bowen or Cofield, and sign a NT with experience in a 3-4 position (i.e. Franklin).[/quote]

I like that Cofield and J. Jenkins have the skills where they can at least rotate in at NT throughout the course of a game.

Our D-line went from being a really weak spot to having a lot of pretty good players. Carriker, Bowen, Jenkins, Cofield, Bryant, Holliday. I like where they are at WAY more than where the were last season.

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 04:24 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816334]You're missing the point, he's not switching to NT...he has been a NT.

Played NT in college and was used like one occasionally with NY too.[/quote]

Yes, but he was a 4-3 NT. The Giants have a 4-3 defense, much different than having the experience of being a 3-4 NT. They are similar, but not the same. The reason Franklin seemed like a target, was because of his experience. Once again, Cofield could become a good 3-4 NT, but he could not. Much different than bringing a vet that has already the experience of being a 3-4 NT.

Now, if we are running a Wade Phillip-style of the 3-4, then Cofield would seem more suited as nose, since that style of the 3-4 uses a lighter NT that attacks the gap (like Ratliff with the Cowboys).

Still, Cofield could become a good traditional 3-4 NT, but we also have Bryant, Jenkins, and Neild who could do the same.

SirClintonPortis 07-29-2011 04:31 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
Cofield will be a depth NT, probably behind Bryant and/or Neild.

SmootSmack 07-29-2011 04:41 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I doubt Cofield is coming here to be 3rd on the depth chart, and with one of the guys ahead of him a 7th round rookie

Monkeydad 07-29-2011 04:42 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=SirClintonPortis;816345]Cofield will be a depth NT, probably behind Bryant and/or Neild.[/quote]

Not a chance. He's starting and Bryant will be his main competition. I think we'll rotate those two a lot.

Alvin Walton 07-29-2011 04:52 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
I cant wait to see the depth chart at the begining of Sept.

skinsfan69 07-29-2011 04:57 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816306]It's funny that you mention Cofield, b/c I see his signing somewhat similar to what we have done before, sign a FA that doesn't fit our scheme. Otherwise, I don't see how these signings are similar to the busts we have had before.[/quote]

they're not haynesworth, archaletta type of signings but it's obvious they're trying to win now instead of trying to build something. cofield is a good player and i assmue they're going to put him in positions where he'll be able to make plays. wilson is coming from a weak balt. secondary. throwing a lot of money to a career back up DE is not a good move, throwing money to chester, who was benched by balt isn't smart. then bringing in two more journeymen wr's when you drafted guys also doesn't make sense. we'll see how it shakes out but history shows that signing a lot of free agents doesn't work.

SirClintonPortis 07-29-2011 04:57 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816359]Not a chance. He's starting and Bryant will be his main competition. I think we'll rotate those two a lot.[/quote]

Never say never.

Ruhskins 07-29-2011 05:03 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=skinsfan69;816378]they're not haynesworth, archaletta type of signings but it's obvious they're trying to win now instead of trying to build something. cofield is a good player and i assmue they're going to put him in positions where he'll be able to make plays. wilson is coming from a weak balt. secondary. throwing a lot of money to a career back up DE is not a good move, throwing money to chester, who was benched by balt isn't smart. then bringing in two more journeymen wr's when you drafted guys also doesn't make sense. we'll see how it shakes out but history shows that signing a lot of free agents doesn't work.[/quote]

Bowen was on the verge of becoming a starter in Dallas. I can probably agree with you about Chester, I would have rather them throw money to Yanda, a much better. And I wouldn't take many of the WRs signings very serious.

A lot of the guys they've signed are in the mid to late 20s, much different than the older guys they used to go for. If they wanted to win now, they would have bet the farm for Kolb or Orton or Palmer, have paid a ton of money for Franklin or Nnamdi. Heck, they could've given a lot of money to Jenkins.

I am not going to say that all the signings have been great and that we are going to the SB. But a lot of these moves seem to be much better than anything we've done in the past, and that includes last year.

That Guy 07-29-2011 05:27 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816381]Bowen was on the verge of becoming a starter in Dallas. I can probably agree with you about Chester, I would have rather them throw money to Yanda, a much better. And I wouldn't take many of the WRs signings very serious.

A lot of the guys they've signed are in the mid to late 20s, much different than the older guys they used to go for. If they wanted to win now, they would have bet the farm for Kolb or Orton or Palmer, have paid a ton of money for Franklin or Nnamdi. Heck, they could've given a lot of money to Jenkins.

I am not going to say that all the signings have been great and that we are going to the SB. But a lot of these moves seem to be much better than anything we've done in the past, and that includes last year.[/quote]

yanda was never coming here. he didn't want to, and his current team was going to pay him, so no use wishing on it now. If i had the choice, I'd choose yanda too, but it was never a serious option from everything i've read.

ethat001 07-29-2011 05:28 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Ruhskins;816381]I am not going to say that all the signings have been great and that we are going to the SB. But a lot of these moves seem to be much better than anything we've done in the past, and that includes last year.[/quote]

I think this is the key point. You have to have [U]good[/U] players at every spot, and then bring in a couple of superstars. We're rebuilding, so we need to get team full of good (not great) team players. Over the next few years we should develop, draft or get the superstar FA's. But these signings so far have been good to bolster us overall. Every good team out there have a couple of superstars, and then a bunch of "good" team players.

Like what we've done on defense so far. Think we overpaid the D-linemen, but we still have money to spend. Disappointed in getting little for McNabb after giving up 2/3rd picks last year, but happy to get something for Haynesworth.

Still need O-linemen. Remember, FA only [U]begins[/U] in 30 minutes.

Mechanix544 07-29-2011 05:41 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
well, we need either jamal brown to come back or harris. If i were a betting man, i could see us signing a couple guards to compete with our current guys for the other side (starting LG). No big names, all career backups or "value " type players who are athletic enough to have a chance to excel in the zbs Good footwork and smart, gritty, and hopefully younger than 29.

htownskinfan 07-29-2011 05:44 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=Monkeydad;816227]I'll give you, McNabb was a bust for us and that was Shanny's idea, but Donovan's to blame too.

Do you realize that AH was causing problems for Zorn too? You can't blame Shanahan one bit for starting that. For $100 million, Albert should have been the punter if asked. He showed in a few games that he COULD be a great NT if he put any effort at all into it, so the whole "I am not a NT" whining is ridiculous.[/quote]

I know AH gave zorn some problems,and like I said its not all on Shanahan about Big Al either,but some of it is.Again I will ask,why do you take a top 5 defense where your paying a guy 100 million to anchor a 4-3 and switch it to a 3-4?
Answer is you dont and I think Shanahan has somehow escaped a lot of heat on this.A great coach adapts to the talent,he has shown nothing to me but an ego bigger then Texas.And then hiring your son as offensive coordinator?I mean WTF!? Doesnt anybody see a conflict of interest there!?

mooby 07-29-2011 06:21 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=htownskinfan;816398]I know AH gave zorn some problems,and like I said its not all on Shanahan about Big Al either,but some of it is.Again I will ask,why do you take a top 5 defense where your paying a guy 100 million to anchor a 4-3 and switch it to a 3-4?
Answer is you dont and I think Shanahan has somehow escaped a lot of heat on this.A great coach adapts to the talent,he has shown nothing to me but an ego bigger then Texas.[B]And then hiring your son as offensive coordinator?I mean WTF!? Doesnt anybody see a conflict of interest there!?[/B][/quote]

I would, had Kyle Shanahan not made the Texans' offense into a passing game extraordinaire during his time there.

htownskinfan 07-29-2011 06:33 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=mooby;816418]I would, had Kyle Shanahan not made the Texans' offense into a passing game extraordinaire during his time there.[/quote]

I think Matt Schaub and the best reciever in the NFL had more to do with that then Kyle

mooby 07-29-2011 06:39 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=htownskinfan;816441]I think Matt Schaub and the best reciever in the NFL had more to do with that then Kyle[/quote]

I think it's an equal combination of players and a coach who knows how to use them.

Mechanix544 07-29-2011 06:52 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
well, if we are in the cellar this year, in terms of defense, i know that jim haslett can kiss his overrated ass goodbye. two strait years of being 31st in the nfl in total defense wouldnt really fly around here, not when you took over a defense that consistently were in the top 10 in all defensive rankings (except sacks), and all that despite an offense that couldnt move the ball even if they bought it a taxi ride and a plane ticket.

People seem to forget that shanahans defenses in denver were in the basement of the league rankings the last 6-7 years there. He is hardly a defensive genius. I think that his switch to the 34 from a solid 43, even without the correct personnel to do so, says alot. We'll see how far the skins fans let him ride out mediocrity. without a john elway, it just doesnt seem like he has done much. at least gibbs did it with different quarterbacks, backup quarterbacks, and whoever the hell else. Shanny hasn't really proven much, except that he can turn young undrafted rookie rbs into pro bowlers, and that really doesnt take us too far right now, does it?

for now, I maintain my cautious optimism that the skins are headed in the right direction.

That Guy 07-29-2011 07:43 PM

Re: Chris Chester Signs
 
[quote=htownskinfan;816441]I think Matt Schaub and the best reciever in the NFL had more to do with that then Kyle[/quote]

our passing game was the only thing that wasn't complete garbage last year (stat wise) we were #8, with bad blocking and suspect QB play.


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