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NC_Skins 08-30-2011 04:50 PM

First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/08/28-3#.Tlr6UKePmLI]First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts | Common Dreams[/url]



[quote]The first-ever audit of the U.S. Federal Reserve has revealed 16 trillion dollars in secret bank bailouts and has raised more questions about the quasi-private agency’s opaque operations.

7000 metric tons of gold bars sit in the gold vault inside the Federal Reserve Bank of New York "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you’re-on-your-own individualism for everyone else," U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, an Independent from Vermont, said in a statement.

The majority of loans were issues by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (FRBNY).

"From late 2007 through mid-2010, Reserve Banks provided more than a trillion dollars… in emergency loans to the financial sector to address strains in credit markets and to avert failures of individual institutions believed to be a threat to the stability of the financial system," the audit report states.[/quote]


/discuss



The part I find amusing is how this isn't the big story in the news while it should be the MAIN story. Crooks getting away with robbery and we just close our eyes and cover our ears.

Edit: Let me clarify something. I don't mean robbery as in they stole the money like some bank robber. I realize they are loans, but they were US government agency that doled out 16 trillion in loans and yet the public is unaware. Then we have have the bank failings (even after these secret loans) and yet more bailouts from the American taxpayers.

Let's think about this. People in the government handing out loans to corporations (bank institutions), who used to be in some of the very firms they were giving out loans to, and who probably had a financial stake in those very organizations.

Using government funds to benefit (or profit) from is the same as robbery. You can call it a "conflict of interest" all you want, but that's a rich person's way of saying robbery.

They should do a audit on each individual in the Federal Reserve and their stocks and compare it to the organizations they were giving the funds (loans) to.

saden1 08-30-2011 06:08 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
These are emergency loans that have to be paid back right? What exactly is being stolen and do the cost outweigh the benefits?

JoeRedskin 08-30-2011 06:28 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote]From late 2007 through mid-2010, Reserve Banks provided more than a trillion dollars…[B] in emergency loans [/B]to the financial sector to address strains in credit markets and to avert failures of individual institutions believed to be a threat to the stability of the financial system.[/quote]

[quote=NC_Skins;829168]Crooks getting away with[B] robbery [/B]and we just close our eyes and cover our ears.[/quote]

Last I checked, a loan required repayment. Robbery does not.
What were the terms of the loan?
What's the interest rate?
Was their fraud in deciding which companies received the loans?

Yes, there were some conflict of interest issues, but "robbery"? Try again. According to the article, almost all the loans have been repaid and the rest are expected to be repaid. It's more an issue of the Fed's haphazard manner in handling the matter and the lack of oversight in determining who gets chosen. All matters that can be corrected (and likely will be).

A few facts beyond "Loans were made" would be useful to back up the highway robbery charges.

NC_Skins 08-30-2011 07:00 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
Saden and Joe, I clarified my subject and expounded on what I mean by "robbery".

JoeRedskin 08-30-2011 07:18 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=NC_Skins;829168]
Edit: Let me clarify something. I don't mean robbery as in they stole the money like some bank robber. I realize they are loans, but they were US government agency that doled out 16 trillion in loans and yet the public is unaware. Then we have have the bank failings (even after these secret loans) and yet more bailouts from the American taxpayers.

Let's think about this. People in the government handing out loans to corporations (bank institutions), who used to be in some of the very firms they were giving out loans to, and who probably had a financial stake in those very organizations.

[B]Using government funds to benefit (or profit) from is the same as robbery. You can call it a "conflict of interest" all you want, but that's a rich person's way of saying robbery.

They should do a audit on each individual in the Federal Reserve and their stocks and compare it to the organizations they were giving the funds (loans) to[/B].[/quote]

By definition, benefitting from "conflicts of interests" involving government money is not robbery. Rather, it is simple corruption. Get your allegations of criminal behaviour right please.

While I am certain I don't share your conspirational conviction that the entire process was corrupt and done for the intentional profit of a few, I do agree that it stinks, that some corruption took place (some of which was intentional - done purely for personal profit - and some not - individuals making loans intended to benefit the economy as a whole that happened to benefit them as well).

Yes. An audit should be done of who got what, what the processes used to decide were, who took part in the decisions and what interests did they have (past & present) in the companies who received monies. If it appears from this that corruption occurred, criminal charges should be brought if possible. If not possible, laws should be changed to make such conflicts of interests illegal.

NC_Skins 08-30-2011 07:51 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;829206]By definition, benefitting from "conflicts of interests" involving government money is not robbery. Rather, it is simple corruption. Get your allegations of criminal behaviour right please. [/quote]

You really going to argue over wordplay?(semantics)


Why is it common people get arrested for stuff like this, but these guys are allowed to roam free and unchecked.


I don't care if you believe the "[I]conspiratorial [/I]conviction that the entire process was corrupt", but you haven't been paying attention to your government. It's ALL corrupt, especially the Federal Reserve.

saden1 08-30-2011 09:57 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
The Federal Reserve is to the United States as Money Launderer is to a Drug Dealer. As long as my bank account is filled with the money I've put in it and I retire with my accumulated wealth I don't give a fck what happens between a drug dealer and his money washer.

JoeRedskin 08-31-2011 01:46 AM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=NC_Skins;829212]You really going to argue over wordplay?(semantics).[/quote]

Okay, I should have put a smiley/winkey face here b/c I was just ribbing you. Intentional corrupt behavior, as with robbery, is just one of many forms of theft.

[quote=NC_Skins;829212]Why is it common people get arrested for stuff like this, but these guys are allowed to roam free and unchecked.

I don't care if you believe the "[I]conspiratorial [/I]conviction that the entire process was corrupt", but you haven't been paying attention to your government. [B]It's ALL corrupt, especially the Federal Reserve[/B].[/quote]

I disagree with the concept that all government is corrupt. I work in the govt. It is often stupid and short sighted and a small amount of corrupt people work for it. But it is inanity to suggest that all of govt. is corrupt. You want corrupt? Go to Greece, Russia, China.

From your past posts, I have no doubt you believe, at some level, US corporations and their boards, CEO's and etc. are sitting in the equivalent of some back room looking to buy judges, congressman and etc. while bilking us honest folk out of our last few pennies. I won't try to shake you awake from your delusion. Feel free to live bitter about our govt.

As to the Federal Reserve, to me, it exhibits the natural problems and conflicts that exist in quasi-governmental structures. Ultimately (in the next 50 years) I expect it will become a wholly governmental agencey with the requisite fairness/inefficiency problems that exist in govt. as a whole. Right now, I simply don't have a dossier on every FRB member to determine if they are a bunch of corporate lackeys who are corrupt and selfish as opposed to individuals heavily and diversely invested in various corporate holdings.

But you go on believing that the you're smarter than the rest of us and that only you can see the truth. I am sure that is comforting to you.

CRedskinsRule 08-31-2011 10:28 AM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;829270]Okay, I should have put a smiley/winkey face here b/c I was just ribbing you. Intentional corrupt behavior, as with robbery, is just one of many forms of theft.



I disagree with the concept that all government is corrupt. I work in the govt. It is often stupid and short sighted and a small amount of corrupt people work for it. But it is inanity to suggest that all of govt. is corrupt. You want corrupt? Go to Greece, Russia, China.

From your past posts, I have no doubt you believe, at some level, US corporations and their boards, CEO's and etc. are sitting in the equivalent of some back room looking to buy judges, congressman and etc. while bilking us honest folk out of our last few pennies. I won't try to shake you awake from your delusion. Feel free to live bitter about our govt.

As to the Federal Reserve, to me, it exhibits the natural problems and conflicts that exist in quasi-governmental structures. Ultimately (in the next 50 years) I expect it will become a wholly governmental agencey with the requisite fairness/inefficiency problems that exist in govt. as a whole. Right now, I simply don't have a dossier on every FRB member to determine if they are a bunch of corporate lackeys who are corrupt and selfish as opposed to individuals heavily and diversely invested in various corporate holdings.

[B]But you go on believing that the you're smarter than the rest of us and that only you can see the truth[/B]. I am sure that is comforting to you.[/quote]

Obviously Joe, You Can't Handle the TRUTH (insert video here).

Govt and big corporations clearly skew the laws to suit them, and have a level of corruption inherent in them. Does that mean every person working for the gov't or a big corporation is evil, or corrupt, clearly not.

firstdown 08-31-2011 11:42 AM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
What's going to drive this country into the ground is going to be pure greed and people unwilling to work. The middle class gets F^%$ed by both groups. You have the rich which in most cases only care about themself and then the poor which sit around and do nothing (in most cases). Its the middle class that gets stuck with paying the bill and getting screwed by following the rules.

NC_Skins 08-31-2011 12:29 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;829270]Okay, I should have put a smiley/winkey face here b/c I was just ribbing you. [/quote]

Sorry. Hard to translate text with tone.


[quote=JoeRedskin;829270]I disagree with the concept that all government is corrupt. I work in the govt. It is often stupid and short sighted and a small amount of corrupt people work for it. But it is inanity to suggest that all of govt. is corrupt. You want corrupt? Go to Greece, Russia, China. [/quote]

Makes two of us. I'm not saying everybody in the government is corrupt. I'm saying the system is corrupt. When more people at the top are corrupt, the lone wolf good guy trying to fix the issues isn't going to be able to due to the resistance from the status quo. This is our main issue now. Even a good candidate trying to make good and turn this country around will never succeed. The people within the parties will never allow that to happen. They want to keep their hand outs coming and they'll bury any good ole boy wanting to buck the system.

Maybe I should put a disclaimer on that *ALL when I say the government is corrupt or use better wordage.

I find this funny, but we aren't allowed (as state employees) to accept free lunches from vendors, yet politicians can take campaign donations from corporations and other business interests? The double standard is amazing.

[quote=JoeRedskin;829270]From your past posts, I have no doubt you believe, at some level, US corporations and their boards, CEO's and etc. are sitting in the equivalent of some back room looking to buy judges, congressman and etc. while bilking us honest folk out of our last few pennies. I won't try to shake you awake from your delusion. Feel free to live bitter about our govt.[/quote]

Then you are reading way too much into my posts or you simply need to ask for clarification. I do not believe some corporations are looking to intentionally corrupt judges, congressman. That said, the lobbying industry is a billion dollar industry and that money isn't being paid for nothing. It's paid so they get favorable legislation passed to benefit their organizations.

I think you need to sit back and realize the true goal of a corporation. It's one and only purpose is to make a profit, and increase the value of its stock. Corporations don't have a conscience, they have a bottom line. Meeting that bottom line is priority status of a corporation. Who cares if dumping toxic wastes is going to harm the environment? We just cut $2 million on expenditures. Who cares if we hire illegal immigrants for below minimum wage? We just cut $4 million on salary and benefits. Who cares if that drug in our drink is potentially dangerous. We just created a new product that will make our stock soar! Who cares if we just eradicated 30,000 jobs? We just saved 350 million by moving those jobs overseas to slave labor and unsafe working conditions.

You only need to look at the history of the corporation (railroad/steel/meat industry to name a few) to see how brutal they were in terms of doing whatever necessary to gain that extra buck. It's pretty much why the government agencies were formed to prevent that.

The people leading these giants aren't necessarily evil or doing it intentional. (well some) Their intent may not be evil, but the final result may very well be evil.



[quote=JoeRedskin;829270]But you go on believing that the you're smarter than the rest of us and that only you can see the truth. I am sure that is comforting to you.[/quote]

That shit isn't needed. I haven't said anything of the sort in this thread, nor have I implied it.

JoeRedskin 08-31-2011 01:32 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=JoeRedskin]But you go on believing that the you're smarter than the rest of us and that only you can see the truth. I am sure that is comforting to you.[/quote]

[quote=NCSkins]That shit isn't needed. I haven't said anything of the sort in this thread, nor have I implied it.[/quote]

I apologize. My remark was uncalled for and inappropriate. My only excuse is the two bottles of wine & six pack that I personally polished off during our "Refugee Dinner" for neighbors without power.

NC_Skins 08-31-2011 01:41 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;829373]I apologize. My remark was uncalled for and inappropriate. My only excuse is the two bottles of wine & six pack that I personally polished off during our "Refugee Dinner" for neighbors without power.[/quote]

All good my man. Just didn't want this to turn into a mud slinging debate. We get enough of that with elections and D. Hall debates. :cheeky-sm

JoeRedskin 08-31-2011 02:32 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
[quote=NC_Skins;829353]Makes two of us. I'm not saying everybody in the government is corrupt. I'm saying [B]the system is corrupt.[/B] When more people at the top are corrupt, the lone wolf good guy trying to fix the issues isn't going to be able to due to the resistance from the status quo. This is our main issue now. Even a good candidate trying to make good and turn this country around will never succeed. The people within the parties will never allow that to happen. They want to keep their hand outs coming and they'll bury any good ole boy wanting to buck the system.

Maybe I should put a disclaimer on that *ALL when I say the government is corrupt or use better wordage.

I find this funny, but we aren't allowed (as state employees) to accept free lunches from vendors, yet politicians can take campaign donations from corporations and other business interests? The double standard is amazing.[/quote]

The system has its problems and I don't entirely disagree with either yours or CRed's point that large organizations, be they govt., corporations or non-profits (e.g. AARP, see also: [url=http://www.onlinemswprograms.org/the-5-most-influential-non-profits-that-youve-never-heard-of.html]The 5 Most Influential Non-Profits That You’ve Never Heard Of[/url]), skew the system. The larger the organization, the more money and more people they have at their disposal to sway/influence lawmakers.

As to the double standard, different places have different laws and after some scandals a few years ago, Maryland enacted much stricter laws regarding lobbyists, permissible gifts, etc. - but, yes, I again agree more than disagree with you that the double standards exist.

[quote=NC_Skins;829353]Then you are reading way too much into my posts or you simply need to ask for clarification. I do not believe some corporations are looking to intentionally corrupt judges, congressman. [B]That said, the lobbying industry is a billion dollar industry and that money isn't being paid for nothing. It's paid so they get favorable legislation passed to benefit their organizations.[/B].[/quote]

I agree with this statement. At the same time, it's not like every corporation has the same legislative goals. In fact, laws that make one corp more profitable, may, in fact, hurt the profitability of another. "Corporate" lobbying to me implies a monolithic structure that I don't believe exists - there are too many cross purposes from too many corporations, and that doesn't even consider the influential & wealthy non-profits whose lobbying goals are often in direct opposition to certain "corporate" interests.

A big part of the problem is that, given the size, population and general wealth of our society, it is difficult for any one person or small group of people to have any influence on the decision making of our Federal govt.

[quote=NC_Skins;829353]I think you need to sit back and realize the true goal of a corporation. It's one and only purpose is to make a profit, and increase the value of its stock. Corporations don't have a conscience, they have a bottom line. Meeting that bottom line is priority status of a corporation. Who cares if dumping toxic wastes is going to harm the environment? We just cut $2 million on expenditures. Who cares if we hire illegal immigrants for below minimum wage? We just cut $4 million on salary and benefits. Who cares if that drug in our drink is potentially dangerous. We just created a new product that will make our stock soar! Who cares if we just eradicated 30,000 jobs? We just saved 350 million by moving those jobs overseas to slave labor and unsafe working conditions.

You only need to look at the history of the corporation (railroad/steel/meat industry to name a few) to see how brutal they were in terms of doing whatever necessary to gain that extra buck. It's pretty much why the government agencies were formed to prevent that.

The people leading these giants aren't necessarily evil or doing it intentional. (well some) Their intent may not be evil, but the final result may very well be evil.[/quote]

I absolutely agree that corporations are concerned with the bottom line and only adopt green or "caring" actions when it is profitable to them either from a regulatory compliance perspective or a public perception perspective (i.e., "I'll buy Ben & Jerry's b/c the seem like such a nice company"). Regardless of their various PR campaigns, corporate entities exist to make money (e.g. insurance companies, despite their professing to be "like a good neighbor", their business model is simple - get as much in premiums as possible and pay as few claims as possible). As my father said once, "the Soviet Union is just GM without a union."

The thing is, these corporations aren't monolithic and, while influential, they often work at cross-purposes with other corporations & other influential groups.

RedskinRat 08-31-2011 07:32 PM

Re: First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts
 
Anyone seen the movie [URL="http://www.sonyclassics.com/insidejob/"]'Inside Job'[/URL]?

It's great for inducing high blood pressure/aneurysm.


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