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-   -   'Occupy' types (http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/44659-occupy-types.html)

RedskinRat 10-13-2011 03:31 PM

'Occupy' types
 
I HEART [URL="http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/total-failure.html"]this[/URL]:

[I]If there is any coherent message that can be gleaned from the Occupy Wall Street “movement”, it is that our system of public and higher education can now be declared a total and complete failure. The fact that there exists no accountability at any level of our Education-Industrial Complex is perfectly clear for all to see. It seems fair to say that responsibility for this can be laid squarely at the feet of the teacher’s unions and their members who have perpetuated an economic structure in education and a curricular agenda that has been allowed to defy gravity for 40 years.[/I]

I'm sure this won't sit well with some but I'd like to hear the counter position to Froggy's post.

SBXVII 10-13-2011 03:58 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
I like his write up however there are other issue's also. Accountability issue's run rampant. Parents don't want to take accountability to help their child with their homework. Teachers not taking accountability for the failure rates of their classes. and as the writer states or eludes to is districts are forcing the older more experienced teacher out the door cause they cost too much for salary and retirment when they can bring in cheap young just out of college non experienced teachers to do the same job, which is pushing the info the kids need to pass the SOL. Students don't pass the SOL the Gov does not give money to the school. Teachers are basically not allowed to elaborate on the material because it's all about kids passing their "Standards Of Learning" tests which lets the Gov. know if the kids are getting/understanding the material.

In VA they talk about "No Child Left Behind" but if the kid can't keep up then they find a disability for him and he gets a modified SOL test. Then there is the Latino population. I asked a Principal once if the Standards of Learning test was given to them in Spanish so they would understand the question and answers and I was told no thats against the rules. The test has to be given in English. So here are tons of students across VA who can't read or write English and are in special classes which gives them the info in both English and Spanish only to be forced to take a test in English which they can't understand. Which by the way counts against the school for their % of failures.

firstdown 10-14-2011 01:42 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=SBXVII;846627]I like his write up however there are other issue's also. Accountability issue's run rampant. Parents don't want to take accountability to help their child with their homework. Teachers not taking accountability for the failure rates of their classes. [B]and as the writer states or eludes to is districts are forcing the older more experienced teacher out the door[/B] cause they cost too much for salary and retirment when they can bring in cheap young just out of college non experienced teachers to do the same job, which is pushing the info the kids need to pass the SOL. Students don't pass the SOL the Gov does not give money to the school. Teachers are basically not allowed to elaborate on the material because it's all about kids passing their "Standards Of Learning" tests which lets the Gov. know if the kids are getting/understanding the material.

In VA they talk about "No Child Left Behind" but if the kid can't keep up then they find a disability for him and he gets a modified SOL test. Then there is the Latino population. I asked a Principal once if the Standards of Learning test was given to them in Spanish so they would understand the question and answers and I was told no thats against the rules. The test has to be given in English. So here are tons of students across VA who can't read or write English and are in special classes which gives them the info in both English and Spanish only to be forced to take a test in English which they can't understand. Which by the way counts against the school for their % of failures.[/quote]

That's BS. They are not forcing out teachers they offer them early retirment packages which some CHOOSE to take or they keep teaching. It just sound worse when they use the word "forcing" to make a point.

firstdown 10-14-2011 01:48 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=RedskinRat;846618]I HEART [URL="http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/total-failure.html"]this[/URL]:

[I]If there is any coherent message that can be gleaned from the Occupy Wall Street “movement”, it is that our system of public and higher education can now be declared a total and complete failure. The fact that there exists no accountability at any level of our Education-Industrial Complex is perfectly clear for all to see. It seems fair to say that responsibility for this can be laid squarely at the feet of the teacher’s unions and their members who have perpetuated an economic structure in education and a curricular agenda that has been allowed to defy gravity for 40 years.[/I]

I'm sure this won't sit well with some but I'd like to hear the counter position to Froggy's post.[/quote]

The unions are part of the blame but i think its more of a parent problem or the lack of parents involvement problem. I don't think anyone running for office will stand up and start telling parents they are a bunch of Fu%$ offs so they blame other things. I do believe that probaly 20% of the teaching force probably needs to be fired and replaced and thats were the union is the problem. Not sure how you fix the parent problem.

firstdown 10-14-2011 02:45 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
I wonder how bad those camps and people smell?

That Guy 10-14-2011 05:04 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=firstdown;846835]The unions are part of the blame but i think its more of a parent problem or the lack of parents involvement problem. I don't think anyone running for office will stand up and start telling parents they are a bunch of Fu%$ offs so they blame other things. I do believe that probaly 20% of the teaching force probably needs to be fired and replaced and thats were the union is the problem. Not sure how you fix the parent problem.[/quote]

it's actually only the bottom 6% of teachers that need to be fired last time i did some research on this. 1 in 25000 teachers ever lose their license... its over 1000% more likely for a doctor to loose his license, and that just seems wrong.

hooskins 10-14-2011 05:27 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
Way to generalize FD. There are actually some Tea Partiers and Ron Paul supporters there.

They are anti-government in many ways too.

FRPLG 10-14-2011 11:19 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=SBXVII;846627]I like his write up however there are other issue's also. Accountability issue's run rampant. Parents don't want to take accountability to help their child with their homework. Teachers not taking accountability for the failure rates of their classes. and as the writer states or eludes to is districts are forcing the older more experienced teacher out the door cause they cost too much for salary and retirment when they can bring in cheap young just out of college non experienced teachers to do the same job, which is pushing the info the kids need to pass the SOL. Students don't pass the SOL the Gov does not give money to the school. Teachers are basically not allowed to elaborate on the material because it's all about kids passing their "Standards Of Learning" tests which lets the Gov. know if the kids are getting/understanding the material.

In VA they talk about "No Child Left Behind" but if the kid can't keep up then they find a disability for him and he gets a modified SOL test. Then there is the Latino population. I asked a Principal once if the Standards of Learning test was given to them in Spanish so they would understand the question and answers and I was told no thats against the rules. The test has to be given in English. So here are tons of students across VA who can't read or write English and are in special classes which gives them the info in both English and Spanish only to be forced to take a test in English which they can't understand. Which by the way counts against the school for their % of failures.[/quote]

In VA immigrant children are allowed one year to learn English so they may take the tests and be counted. If that seems a little impractical then the fact that a great majority of them don't read any where near their grade level when the arrive either should make the impractical seem asinine.

Teachers have one year to teach a kid English AND how to read. Brilliant!

FRPLG 10-14-2011 11:22 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
Teachers aren't the main problem with our system. Certainly there are bad teachers, there are bad workers in every job field, but the problem is so much deeper. We simply don't take education, as a populace, seriously enough. Our society doesn't hold anyone in the system accountable. Like everything else we let special interests and politics steer the decisions.

SmootSmack 10-15-2011 07:34 AM

I can't seem to find myself truly interested in this. Arab Spring felt real and compelling. Young people truly wanting/needing to make a change in how their countries, and the world, operate. This feels like "look at us! We're protesting too! We are soo cool and counterculture"

Slingin Sammy 33 10-15-2011 08:39 AM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=SmootSmack;846915]I can't seem to find myself truly interested in this. Arab Spring felt real and compelling. Young people truly wanting/needing to make a change in how their countries, and the world, operate. [B]This feels like "look at us! We're protesting too! We are soo cool and counterculture[/B]"[/quote]Exactly! I wish Rudy G. was mayor of NYC right now.

Beemnseven 10-15-2011 09:13 AM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[URL="http://occupyherbstreit.tumblr.com/page/2"]Occupy Herbstreit![/URL]

Chico23231 10-15-2011 10:05 AM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
First, I whole heartedly agree with the lack of message with the Occupy movement. Needs to be stronger, with an emphasis of what is wrong (which are several obvious issues) and what needs to be changed. Its an obvious put off when some are interviewed and they do have an good answer or they say they're looking for a handout to pay for their college education.

Most interesting to me, once again, is the hypocrisy on the right. Its seems like an opportunity to get together and demand change in accountability practices within what is the institution, "wall street." Does the right remember who created the anti-wall street movement? Remember the tea party, the anti bailout movement which created it? Remember main street vs wall street Sarah Palin speeches (stolen from Paul)? I dont get it anymore...Cantor says "mob" but when tea party demonstrates, its democratic right? I just dont understand...it seems like a perfect opportunity to look at reason why our economy collasped, here is a big hint....it wasnt because the government was involved.

Mattyk 10-15-2011 12:49 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
[quote=Chico23231;846923]First, I whole heartedly agree with the lack of message with the Occupy movement. Needs to be stronger, with an emphasis of what is wrong (which are several obvious issues) and what needs to be changed. Its an obvious put off when some are interviewed and they do have an good answer or they say they're looking for a handout to pay for their college education.

Most interesting to me, once again, is the hypocrisy on the right. Its seems like an opportunity to get together and demand change in accountability practices within what is the institution, "wall street." Does the right remember who created the anti-wall street movement? Remember the tea party, the anti bailout movement which created it? Remember main street vs wall street Sarah Palin speeches (stolen from Paul)? I dont get it anymore...Cantor says "mob" but when tea party demonstrates, its democratic right? I just dont understand...it seems like a perfect opportunity to look at reason why our economy collasped, here is a big hint....it wasnt because the government was involved.[/quote]

Agreed.

I think this is just the right's chance to poke at the left over their tea party bashing.

SirClintonPortis 10-16-2011 12:58 PM

Re: 'Occupy' types
 
DIE LINKEDIN DIE
DIE ZIPCAR DIE
DIE KELLOGS' DIE
DIE PFIZER DIE.
DIE PHARMACUTICALS YOUR MOMMA JUST USED FOR SOME SERIOUS ILLNESS DIE IPOs(wtf are they, surely another tool of corruption) DIE
Youthful stupidity at its finest. (and I'm a 22yr old spring chicken myself.


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