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skinster 12-05-2011 01:41 PM

Switching positions.
 
I'm looking at this year's draft prospects, and once again there seems to be a severe lack of Free Safeties at the top of the draft. This seems to happen pretty often. There just seems to be a general lack of Free Safety talent in the league, While corners seem to be taken in plenty throughout the top draft. Although there seems to be plenty of gaurds/interior linemen this year, I would say that the same phenomenon happens with those positions also while tackles seem to be taken plenty throughout the draft.

I don't understand why teams don't draft corners and move them to free safety, or draft tackles and move them to guard. I understand there are nuances to the position/different skills required to be good, but it seems like there are enough similarities between these two positions that the transition could be made. Antrel Rolle to free safety, robert gallery/chris williams to guard. It almost seems like these guys got demoted but still ended up contributing more to their respective teams.

It almost seems as if the best football players play corner and tackle. There's just superior talent there. I don't understand why teams regularly draft poor talent at safety and guard in the later rounds over drafting superior potential at those positions simply because they were assigned a different position in college.

I may be off base here, but at the very least I think there's a little truth in what I'm saying

GMScud 12-05-2011 01:45 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
So are you suggesting that one or more of our tackles and/or corners switch to safety or guard? If so, who and why?

skinster 12-05-2011 02:01 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=GMScud;865652]So are you suggesting that one or more of our tackles and/or corners switch to safety or guard? If so, who and why?[/quote]

Not our current players. I just realized I didn't clarify what I was saying. I was referring to the draft. I was looking towards the future of the Redskins, and obviously OJ Atogwe isn't going to be around forever. I'm not positive how good our guards are either. We don't really have the abundance of talent so that we can draft starters for the future at all our needs right now. I think it might be a good idea to use a 3rd rounder on an athletic corner and groom him for a couple of years to be a safety. Kind of moneyball it (with no money involved) Same thing applies to drafting tackles and switching them to guards. Or even sign free agents that didn't work out at their respective positions and switch them (that would be moneyballing it, but I like the idea of growing through the draft).
Hell the packers took a WR in sam shields and made him into a decent corner.

I just want to say that I don't believe position switches should be limited to just what I said. A couple more ideas that I personally really like is defensive tackles switching to guard (I know that's a huge change). The reason I like that is because the most athletic big guys have a tendency to play defense. Take a raw talent on the d-line, and take 2-3 years to try and switch him to guard. I just think that long term, the value/potential is higher.

Another position switch I rarely see happen is safety to LB. There seems to be so many safeties out there that can't cover but can tackle real well. I don't understand why they don't get moved to LB. Adam Archuletta comes to mind when I say this. Especially when we had him, our LBs were very poor. His coverage skills couldnt have been worse than our dogshit linebackers, and his tackling skills were always great. I wanted to see him in at LB.

jdlea 12-05-2011 02:01 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=GMScud;865652]So are you suggesting that one or more of our tackles and/or corners switch to safety or guard? If so, who and why?[/quote]

I'll take a quick swag at this.

If Hall were to stay on this team, I wouldn't necessarily mind if it were as a FS. I think he has the speed and ball skills to make some plays, although he's looked pretty bad this year. I don't have any faith in his tackling ability or his ability to stop the run, so that's a big concern. Basically, he has enough holes in his game to where I think he'd be a liability wherever he is, but maybe he'd make a few more plays as a FS, just a guess. Not a move I'd be excited about, but I think he'd be the best candidate. Anyway, we have Gomes as a young FS, I'd like to see him instead of moving Hall.

As to moving tackles to guard, I said last year I would have moved Heyer because I didn't think he was quick enough to play tackle. That said, I don't think there's a candidate for that on the team as it's currently constructed, but I would have let Selvish Capers take a shot at G before we let him go.

In my opinion, I'm somewhat happy with what I'm seeing from Hurt if he continues to progress, but I wouldn't mind a bit more depth along the interior line.

I don't think this is the best idea in the world, but to me, it should be considered before cutting young O Lineman...not saying Heyer or Capers would have been great guards, but I think they may have been a fit there as opposed to the more demanding tackle position.

GTripp0012 12-05-2011 02:08 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
Well, the tackle to guard switch happens all the time. It probably doesn't happen as much as it should with established NFL players, but it happens all the time from college to the pros. Incredibly common.

I don't think switching a corner to safety is typically a good move: a guy who can't cover as a corner isn't going to be less of a liability in the middle of the defense, see: Rolle, Antrel. But there are a couple situations where I would advocate a corner switch to safety. 1) if he tackles really well, 2) to save a bad cornerback contract without having to release the guy and eat the signing bonus. A bad corner hurts the team a little less at safety. But it's generally a poor long term solution.

SBXVII 12-05-2011 02:08 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=skinster;865656]Not our current players. I just realized I didn't clarify what I was saying. I was referring to the draft. I was looking towards the future of the Redskins, and obviously OJ Atogwe isn't going to be around forever. I'm not positive how good our guards are either. We don't really have the abundance of talent so that we can draft starters for the future at all our needs right now. I think it might be a good idea to use a 3rd rounder on an athletic corner and groom him for a couple of years to be a safety. Kind of moneyball it (with no money involved) Same thing applies to drafting tackles and switching them to guards. Or even sign free agents that didn't work out at their respective positions and switch them (that would be moneyballing it, but I like the idea of growing through the draft).
Hell the packers took a WR in sam shields and made him into a decent corner.[/quote]

Well they kinda do, do that. Most teams will look for a OL that plays more then one position ie; Montgomery was a Center who was playing Guard for the first few yrs with us. I'm sure others could name a couple other guys in the same position.

Barnes has been used at CB, Nickle, and if I'm not mistaken FS or so I thought for one or more games. Gomez I thought was a CB which the team has been using at FS recently.

SBXVII 12-05-2011 02:10 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=jdlea;865657]I'll take a quick swag at this.

If Hall were to stay on this team, I wouldn't necessarily mind if it were as a FS. I think he has the speed and ball skills to make some plays, although he's looked pretty bad this year. I don't have any faith in his tackling ability or his ability to stop the run, so that's a big concern. Basically, he has enough holes in his game to where I think he'd be a liability wherever he is, but maybe he'd make a few more plays as a FS, just a guess. Not a move I'd be excited about, but I think he'd be the best candidate. Anyway, we have Gomes as a young FS, I'd like to see him instead of moving Hall.

As to moving tackles to guard, I said last year I would have moved Heyer because I didn't think he was quick enough to play tackle. That said, I don't think there's a candidate for that on the team as it's currently constructed, but I would have let Selvish Capers take a shot at G before we let him go.

In my opinion, I'm somewhat happy with what I'm seeing from Hurt if he continues to progress, but I wouldn't mind a bit more depth along the interior line.

I don't think this is the best idea in the world, but to me, it should be considered before cutting young O Lineman...not saying Heyer or Capers would have been great guards, but I think they may have been a fit there as opposed to the more demanding tackle position.[/quote]


The only problem I have with Hall being FS is he takes too many chances. I'd rather he stay at CB with a FS over the top to clean up his messes vs. putting him in at FS and he being the last man takes a chance and the result is a TD for the opponant. The team definitly needs a FS who is not afraid to hit and can run sideline to sideline to help the CB's.

skinster 12-05-2011 02:23 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=GTripp0012;865658]Well, the tackle to guard switch happens all the time. It probably doesn't happen as much as it should with established NFL players, but it happens all the time from college to the pros. Incredibly common.

I don't think switching a corner to safety is typically a good move: a guy who can't cover as a corner isn't going to be less of a liability in the middle of the defense, see: Rolle, Antrel. But there are a couple situations where I would advocate a corner switch to safety. 1) if he tackles really well, 2) to save a bad cornerback contract without having to release the guy and eat the signing bonus. A bad corner hurts the team a little less at safety. But it's generally a poor long term solution.[/quote]

I thought Antrel Rolle was playing well? Didn't he just make the pro bowl? Safety seems to be more raw athleticism and instincts than technique while corner seems to be alot of technique. Corners seem to need to change direction multiple times a play, constantly are playing with their backs turned to the qb, and need to not mess up their footwork as to lose a second. Safeties see the whole field and seem to normally make one break a play. Safety is an important role, and is by no means easy considering the quick decisions needed to be made, but I just feel there are fewer skill sets required to play safety than corner, and a corner might be able to play in the nfl because he is missing one component necessary for CB that is not needed at safety.

firstdown 12-05-2011 02:28 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
Didn't we just do that with our last number one draft pick?

skinster 12-05-2011 04:25 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=firstdown;865666]Didn't we just do that with our last number one draft pick?[/quote]

Orakpo/Kerrigan? Not really. Most 3-4 OLBs are DEs in college. Sort of though.

Lotus 12-05-2011 04:28 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=SBXVII;865659]Well they kinda do, do that. Most teams will look for a OL that plays more then one position ie; Montgomery was a Center who was playing Guard for the first few yrs with us. I'm sure others could name a couple other guys in the same position.

[B]Barnes has been used at CB, Nickle, and if I'm not mistaken FS or so I thought for one or more games. [/B]Gomez I thought was a CB which the team has been using at FS recently.[/quote]

Barnes played some FS last year and didn't do a bad job.

GMScud 12-05-2011 04:39 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/05/patriots-start-three-new-defenders-including-a-wide-receiver/]Patriots start three new defenders, including a wide receiver | ProFootballTalk[/url]

I swear this kind of ish only works in NE. WRs playing safety?

Daseal 12-05-2011 04:40 PM

Re: Switching positions.
 
[quote=diehard;865713]There's a big difference between OT/CB money versus G/S money. At least it use to be regarding the draft.[/quote]

This says it all. $$$ makes the world go round. Good T will get paid more than a really good G.


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