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30gut 05-18-2012 10:05 PM

Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[IMG]http://clutchsportsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/luck-griffin-300x168.jpg[/IMG]

[U]First and foremost[/U] I want the Redskins to [I]win[/I] more games this year [I]but[/I] I have to admit a strong secondary desire: I want Griffin to post better offensive numbers then Luck.

At first I was confident that Griffin's superior production was a certainity because of my perceptions of the Colts offense.

But, after looking the Colts draft, offseason moves and returning players I'm not as certain that Griff will put up better stats then Luck.

[B][U][COLOR="Olive"]Follow on questions not included in the Title:[/COLOR][/U][/B]

Which teams has better offensive weapons? Us or the Colts?

What rookie season stats do you think Griffin and Luck will post?

What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)

NC_Skins 05-18-2012 10:20 PM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
Stat wise, I think Luck will and not for the reason you may think. Let's think about this. Teams that play from behind normally usually end up with a ton of yardage stats, and played a big part in why Newton racked up the type of numbers he did. That crappy Panthers team was always down and usually by more than one score.

Now, the Colts are a lot crappier than the Panthers so I imagine they'll be playing from behind a good portion of this season. We on the other hand will most likely have a balanced attack with a slight higher % of passes and our defense is legit.

RGIII is going to have the better W-L record though.

30gut 05-18-2012 10:33 PM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=NC_Skins;917673]Stat wise, I think Luck will and not for the reason you may think. Let's think about this. Teams that play from behind normally usually end up with a ton of yardage stats, and played a big part in why Newton racked up the type of numbers he did. That crappy Panthers team was always down and usually by more than one score.[/quote]Actually, [I]part[/I] of the reason I think Luck could post better stats then Griffin is because I expect them to be trailing often.
But, I also think the Colts are gonna be better then people think.
I think their net offensive weapons rivals our own.

However; I think you miss characterize Cam's yardage numbers by saying their were always down and usually by more then 1 score.
The Panthers were in almost every game, I think its more accurate to say that they chose to pass by design not because they were compelled to by score.

[quote]We on the other hand will most likely have a balanced attack with a slight higher % of passes and our defense is legit.

RGIII is going to have the better W-L record though.[/quote]Def agree about the defense and the W-L record.
But, I don't think you can call our pass/run balance [I]slight[/I] towards the pass.
Nothing about Kyle's playcalling suggests to me that we'll have a balanced attack; I think we will remain a pass focused team except now we have a QB and receiving corps that makes the pass oriented balance justifiable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW:
What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)

NC_Skins 05-18-2012 11:02 PM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=30gut;917674]However; I think you miss characterize Cam's yardage numbers by saying their were always down and usually by more then 1 score.The Panthers were in almost every game, I think its more accurate to say that they chose to pass by design not because they were compelled to by score. [/quote]

I will give concede that point that their offense was more of a open up type offense than the old running style they once had. It worked for the most part, but they seemed to have trouble producing in the 4th quarter when it mattered. (in terms of points)

Fun fact: he had below 225 yards passing in all the wins except one. The lone one against us. :(


I don't see how you can equate the Colts offensive weapons to ours. They aren't even in the same ballpark anymore. All of their weapons are gone except Wayne.

skinsfaninok 05-19-2012 02:01 AM

I think luck struggles with the lack of talent in Indy.. griff has more overall weapons

EARTHQUAKE2689 05-19-2012 05:35 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
Griffin: 3,542 yards 22TDs 13Ints 544 rushing yards 5TDs

Luck: 3,318 yards 19TDs 15Ints

mooby 05-19-2012 06:39 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=30gut;917672][IMG]http://clutchsportsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/luck-griffin-300x168.jpg[/IMG]

[U]First and foremost[/U] I want the Redskins to [I]win[/I] more games this year [I]but[/I] I have to admit a strong secondary desire: I want Griffin to post better offensive numbers then Luck.

At first I was confident that Griffin's superior production was a certainity because of my perceptions of the Colts offense.

But, after looking the Colts draft, offseason moves and returning players I'm not as certain that Griff will put up better stats then Luck.

[B][U][COLOR="Olive"]Follow on questions not included in the Title:[/COLOR][/U][/B]

Which teams has better offensive weapons? Us or the Colts? [B]Us[/B]

What rookie season stats do you think Griffin and Luck will post? [B]Above-average stats[/B]

What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)[B] Yes[/B][/quote]

...

30gut 05-19-2012 07:19 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
BTW:
What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)
__________________

[quote=NC_Skins;917678]...I don't see how you can equate the Colts offensive weapons to ours. They aren't even in the same ballpark anymore. All of their weapons are gone except Wayne.[/quote]

At first blush I automatically thought we were clearly better in every area but I think its close in most areas.

[B][U]OL:[/U][/B] Colts
I give them a slight edge on the OL.
I'm assuming both the Colts and our OL will improve but this is where they rankled last year:
[url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-lines-part-1/[/url]
PFF rates their OL ahead of ours and that's [I]without[/I] Ben Ijalana and offseason additions of Samson Satele

[B][U]Receiveing Corps:[/U][/B] Redskins

I think we have a better overall receiving corps but again its close.
WRs:
The starting WRs based on production:
Wayne (a true #1 WR) + Collie is at [I]least[/I] equal to Garcon + Morgan/Hankerson
Hankerson, Moss and Armstrong give us greater [I]depth[/I] though

(imo Ty Hilton was an absolute steal for them though)

TEs:
Best overall player: Fred Davis however the Colts drafted the 2 best TEs in the draft and I give the combo of Fleener/Allen the edge of Davis/Cooley(health questions)

[B][U]Running game:[/U][/B] Push

I give us the slight edge because of scheme but Donald Brown was a producitve back last year and Carter was decent.
Running game is another area I think is closer then people realize.


[B][U]Scheme:[/U][/B] Redskins

I give us the edge overall because of [I]continuity[/I] but I think Bruce Arians is a very good OC that was Peyton Manning's QB coach during his rookie season and helped groom Rothlisberger w/Steelers. Their already borrowing some concepts from Standford and will feature a Coltesque double TE based offense.

EARTHQUAKE2689 05-19-2012 07:55 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=30gut;917682]BTW:
What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)
__________________



At first blush I automatically thought we were clearly better in every area but I think its close in most areas.

[B][U]OL:[/U][/B] Colts
I give them a slight edge on the OL.
I'm assuming both the Colts and our OL will improve but this is where they rankled last year:
[url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-lines-part-1/[/url]
PFF rates their OL ahead of ours and that's [I]without[/I] Ben Ijalana and offseason additions of Samson Satele

[B][U]Receiveing Corps:[/U][/B] Redskins

I think we have a better overall receiving corps but again its close.
WRs:
The starting WRs based on production:
Wayne (a true #1 WR) + Collie is at [I]least[/I] equal to Garcon + Morgan/Hankerson
Hankerson, Moss and Armstrong give us greater [I]depth[/I] though

(imo Ty Hilton was an absolute steal for them though)

TEs:
Best overall player: Fred Davis however the Colts drafted the 2 best TEs in the draft and I give the combo of Fleener/Allen the edge of Davis/Cooley(health questions)

[B][U]Running game:[/U][/B] Push

I give us the slight edge because of scheme but Donald Brown was a producitve back last year and Carter was decent.
Running game is another area I think is closer then people realize.


[B][U]Scheme:[/U][/B] Redskins

I give us the edge overall because of [I]continuity[/I] but I think Bruce Arians is a very good OC that was Peyton Manning's QB coach during his rookie season and helped groom Rothlisberger w/Steelers. Their already borrowing some concepts from Standford and will feature a Coltesque double TE based offense.[/quote]


I fail to see how you can say their running game is on par with ours, that their offensive line is better, and you're still on that Cam Newton was the best qb prospect you ever saw huh?

30gut 05-19-2012 08:47 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;917684]I fail to see how you can say their running game is on par with ours, that their offensive line is better,[/quote]Pretty simple our running games was 25th w/4.0 ypc theirs was 26th w/4.2 ypc hence on par.
Lead backs: (them) Donald Brown 645 yds 4.8 ypc/Roy Helu 640 yds 4.2 ypc

I showed the stats behind my opinion of our respective OLs coupled with the fact that they're adding a starters at OG/OT.

[quote]...and you're still on that Cam Newton was the best qb prospect you ever saw huh?[/quote]:doh: Funny how I've never said the above nor is the above topic brought up in this thread.

However this question, which is stated is:
What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)

EARTHQUAKE2689 05-19-2012 08:58 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=30gut;917685]Pretty simple our running games was 25th w/4.0 ypc theirs was 26th w/4.2 ypc hence on par.
Lead backs: (them) Donald Brown 645 yds 4.8 ypc/Roy Helu 640 yds 4.2 ypc

I showed the stats behind my opinion of our respective OLs coupled with the fact that they're adding a starters at OG/OT.

:doh: Funny how I've never said the above nor is the above topic brought up in this thread.

However this question, which is stated is:
What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)[/quote]


Just to tickle my fancy, whose stats are those you posted? It's not Albert Pujos. Yeah not buying the lineman or running game being equal or theirs being better.

30gut 05-19-2012 09:07 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;917686]Just to tickle my fancy, whose stats are those you posted? It's not Albert Pujos. Yeah not buying the lineman or running game being equal or theirs being better.[/quote]We'll i guess stating 'not buying...(whatever)' as opposed to an actual dialogue of reasons, facts or stats equates to having a discussion in your book.

The stats posted in the question are from Cam Newton's rookie season.
They represent the best rookie season QB stats to date, if some other QB posted better rookie season numbers then those would have been included in the question as a benchmark.

I've answered your question, are you gonna respond to my actual question?
(or keep trying to misrepresent or re-characterize my question which appears below)

What type of rookie season production does Luck need to justify the 'best prospect since' hype? (60.0%--4,051yds--7.8ypa--21 TDs--17 Ints--84.5 Rating +706 rush yds--14 rush TDs)

Mattyk 05-19-2012 09:12 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
Luck could end up with more yards if you believe the Colts are going to be playing from behind a lot. But I think RG3 ends up with the better TD/INT ratio and is more efficient overall.

CapitalDefense 05-19-2012 09:50 AM

Re: Better Rookie Season Stats Griffin or Luck?
 
Cousins


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