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firstdown 06-06-2012 09:33 AM

Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
I'm surprised that no one has started a thread on this recall election in Wisconsin where Gov. Scott Walker won by even a larger margin then the 2010 election.

[url=http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/05/12074595-walker-emerges-victorious-in-wisconsin-recall?lite]Walker emerges victorious in Wisconsin recall - NBC Politics[/url]

Chico23231 06-06-2012 09:51 AM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
this is so bad for Obama...maybe it will wake up his lame campaign.

NC_Skins 06-06-2012 10:11 AM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=Chico23231;920142]this is so bad for Obama...maybe it will wake up his lame campaign.[/quote]

What's funny is that Obama was still leading the polls in Wisconsin. I wouldn't necessarily say it's bad for him.

NC_Skins 06-06-2012 12:40 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/06/jon-stewart-scott-walker-recall-video_n_1573566.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003]Jon Stewart Criticizes Scott Walker Recall Coverage (VIDEO)[/url]

Monksdown 06-06-2012 01:09 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
Being more of a glass half full kind of guy...

This is more of a GOP/small government victory.

firstdown 06-06-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=Monksdown;920208]Being more of a glass half full kind of guy...

This is more of a GOP/small government victory.[/quote]

Well Walker ran on cutting spending and when he did people got mad. Now after the recall it seems the majority still want him to cut spending. He ask gov. employees to pay 12% of thier health care and pay 5% of their retirement fund. Seems fair. I pay 100% of both for family.

NC_Skins 06-06-2012 01:14 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
Some angry people in Wisconsin.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/barrett-slapped-face-conceding-recall-walker-135618842--abc-news-politics.html]Barrett Slapped In Face After Conceding Recall To Walker - Yahoo! News[/url]


Can't blame them. You start messing with people's livelihood and salaries and you'll get a lynch mob in no time. I suspect that many of those voting against unions do so because it doesn't affect them and have that myth beat in them that UNIONS ARE BAD AND THE DOWNFALL OF OUR ECONOMY!! Meanwhile, big businesses are laughing their asses off.

Monksdown 06-06-2012 01:36 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=NC_Skins;920211]Some angry people in Wisconsin.

[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/barrett-slapped-face-conceding-recall-walker-135618842--abc-news-politics.html"]Barrett Slapped In Face After Conceding Recall To Walker - Yahoo! News[/URL]


Can't blame them. You start messing with people's livelihood and salaries and you'll get a lynch mob in no time. I suspect that many of those voting against unions do so because it doesn't affect them and have that myth beat in them that UNIONS ARE BAD AND THE DOWNFALL OF OUR ECONOMY!! Meanwhile, big businesses are laughing their asses off.[/quote]

I didnt realize he was cutting taxes for the job creators. I just thought he was trying to control government spending, the platform he was elected on.

Monksdown 06-06-2012 01:39 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
Whoever slapped the mayor should be deported to Greece.

Chico23231 06-06-2012 02:32 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=NC_Skins;920211]Some angry people in Wisconsin.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/barrett-slapped-face-conceding-recall-walker-135618842--abc-news-politics.html]Barrett Slapped In Face After Conceding Recall To Walker - Yahoo! News[/url]


Can't blame them. You start messing with people's livelihood and salaries and you'll get a lynch mob in no time. [B]I suspect that many of those voting against unions do so because it doesn't affect them and have that myth beat in them that UNIONS ARE BAD AND THE DOWNFALL OF OUR ECONOMY!! Meanwhile, big businesses are laughing their asses off[/B].[/quote]

Your a little off here. Private vs Public unions are vastly different. I support private unions all day. Public...not so much because:

In the private sector, consumers have the right to opt out.

If private sector unions negotiate deals that make their respective industries more expensive to operate, and thus their products more expensive, consumers have the right to buy less, or to go elsewhere to get what they want. Businesses can send fewer employees to Las Vegas conferences. Families can pinch their food budgets if labor costs at grocery stores make prices more expensive, or replace their cars less often if union benefits add too much to the price of an automobile. If too many people opt out, or buy too little, the company in question goes out of business. And unless the government offers a bailout, that’s the end of the story. When dealing with the private sector, unions generally have some incentive not to overreach to the point where their employer goes out of business.

The story’s not the same in the public sector. When government employees negotiate added salary and benefits, those who are not directly employed by the government—which is to say, the vast majority of taxpayers—can’t really opt out. So one of three things has to happen: 1) Taxes are raised to pay for the added compensation costs. 2) Services are cut in order to pay for the additional compensation. 3) The additional compensation isn’t ever paid—a situation that usually comes with, at minimum, some sort of minor political drama, if not a serious showdown. This is why the power of public sector unions is such a big deal: When they negotiate better benefits, the majority of taxpayers usually end up forced to bear the cost, somehow, whether they want to or not. With private sector unions, that’s not necessarily the case.

[url=http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/23/the-difference-between-private]The Difference Between Private and Public Sector Unions - Hit & Run : Reason.com[/url]

firstdown 06-06-2012 03:07 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=NC_Skins;920211]Some angry people in Wisconsin.

[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/barrett-slapped-face-conceding-recall-walker-135618842--abc-news-politics.html"]Barrett Slapped In Face After Conceding Recall To Walker - Yahoo! News[/URL]


Can't blame them. You start messing with people's livelihood and salaries and you'll get a lynch mob in no time. I suspect that many of those voting against unions do so because it doesn't affect them and have that myth beat in them that UNIONS ARE BAD AND THE DOWNFALL OF OUR ECONOMY!! Meanwhile, big businesses are laughing their asses off.[/quote]

So you think its too much for the tax payers to ask the public sector union members to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5% of their retirement plan? I have to pay 100% of those for myself.

dmek25 06-06-2012 03:34 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
let me see. he wants those govt workers to take a pay cut, seems fair. wants those workers to help pay for their ins., seems fair., he wants to cut their pensions, seems fair. what is he giving up? makes me laugh any time a local GOP ruling body needs to cut, they run after the unions, first chance they get

mlmpetert 06-06-2012 03:45 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=Chico23231;920234]
The story’s not the same in the public sector. When government employees negotiate added salary and benefits, those who are not directly employed by the government—which is to say, the vast majority of taxpayers—can’t really opt out. So one of three things has to happen: 1) Taxes are raised to pay for the added compensation costs. 2) Services are cut in order to pay for the additional compensation. 3) The additional compensation isn’t ever paid—a situation that usually comes with, at minimum, some sort of minor political drama, if not a serious showdown. This is why the power of public sector unions is such a big deal: When they negotiate better benefits, the majority of taxpayers usually end up forced to bear the cost, somehow, whether they want to or not. With private sector unions, that’s not necessarily the case.

[URL="http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/23/the-difference-between-private"]The Difference Between Private and Public Sector Unions - Hit & Run : Reason.com[/URL][/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So well said. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The only thing i have against Walker is that he has promised not to turn Wisconsion into a right to work state. Forced unionism just feels inheritantly wrong. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Lotus 06-06-2012 04:14 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
Maybe the Wisconsin vote had less to do with a referendum on cutting government spending and more to do with voters feeling that the recall process should only be used for elected officials who turn out to be guilty of crimes.

firstdown 06-06-2012 04:19 PM

Re: Democrats/Unions Lose Big In Wisconsin
 
[quote=dmek25;920250]let me see. he wants those govt workers to take a pay cut, seems fair. wants those workers to help pay for their ins., seems fair., he wants to cut their pensions, seems fair. what is he giving up? makes me laugh any time a local GOP ruling body needs to cut, they run after the unions, first chance they get[/quote]

Did not ask them to take a pay cut or to cut their pension. He ask them to hlep pay a small % of their health ins. and pay a small % of their pension. So lets see an example. If their health ins is $800 per month and their pension deposit is 500 per month (both figures probably high) they would have to pay $121 for those benifits. Wow. I pay $820 for health insurance and what ever I have left each month I put away for retirement.

Did you also know under the union contract the school districts could only purchase health ins through WEA (Wis. Education Association) which profited from these contracts and cost the school district millions more each year. Those millions that could be spent on actually the students but the unions would not allow them to shop the rates.


[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/07/wisconsin-schools-buck-union-cut-health-costs/115972]Wisconsin schools buck union to cut health costs | Washington Examiner[/url]


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