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skinster 10-04-2012 12:18 PM

Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I was looking at the stats on nfl.com and our D-line is doing attrocious.

There are zero sacks, ints, and passes defensed between the entire group.

Jenkins and Bowen each only have 3 tackles, while Cofield has a whopping 0.

Our backups have added only 2 more tackles between the group, adding up to 8 total tackles from our D-line, while having no other statistics the entire season.

I get that scheme can limit statistical production, but considering HOW bad the production is, I'm beginning to worry that its just not up to snuff.

I'm well aware that our secondary is junk, I can see that in the games. I didn't notice the D-line doing that poor though. Is anyone else seeing what I'm not? Or is the secondary so bad that the d-line just can't make a play before the ball comes out? I'm REALLY hoping its the scheme/bad play of the secondary as we don't have the cap room or the draft picks to rebuild another part of our team.

los panda 10-04-2012 12:21 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
those numbers don't tell the whole story, just like this one doesn't, either:

redskins a top 10 rushing defense w 89 rushing yards allowed per game.

Chico23231 10-04-2012 12:22 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Bowens has had very good year. We lost a decent player in AC early. Coefield as been decent. Jenkins, Worthing, Gholston rotation has been mehhh...but they are backups.

I dont think you measure DLine in just stats, its more about leverage. Being able to move the pocket, collaspe it, or just basically not allow the Oline "to get push."

Look at how we are stuffing the run...they've been great.

Daseal 10-04-2012 12:26 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
To me it seems like we haven't been getting much pressure in general, but teams have been unloading the ball quickly. Why not. If our weakness is the secondary, don't let the front 7 have a chance to get to the QB. Throw it short and hope the WR can beat the DB.

REDSKINS4ever 10-04-2012 12:34 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
The original starting defensive linemen are not starting. Carriker is gone for the season. Jarvis Jenkins is probably still trying to get his feet under him. Never can count out Bowen. As far as Barry Cofield, he's been manning that nose tackle position like he's supposed to. In the 3-4 defense, the linemen aren't suppose to make the tackles or the sacks. They are there to tie up the offensive linemen so that Fletcher, Riley, Rob Jackson, and Ryan Kerrigan can get to the quarterback or make the needed tackle.

But the defensive line is going its job. In the opener last season against the New York Midgets, the right side of the offensive line collapsed and Chris Neild was able to sack Eli Manning twice in that game. Both Bowen and Carriker each had a sack in that game too for the same reason.

MTK 10-04-2012 12:36 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
3-4 lineman aren't going to put up pretty stats. Just look at the results against the run and that's all you need to tell you they're doing their job.

Ruhskins 10-04-2012 12:52 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I think our d-line is doing a good job, especially on the run D. The only thing I'd like to see them improve is to be able to be more disruptive in the passing game and collapse the pocket.

skinster 10-04-2012 12:52 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Mattyk;948882]3-4 lineman aren't going to put up pretty stats. Just look at the results against the run and that's all you need to tell you they're doing their job.[/quote]

I know that D-linemen don't put up the stats (especially the nose). I'm not concerned that their numbers don't jump out. I'm concerned that their numbers seem so dramatically under the expected, compared to last year and other d-lines around the league. 2 tackles per game, with no other stats for an entire d-line just seems off.

I understand what you guys are saying in that it is not their job to put up numbers, but to clog holes and collapse the pocket. I just feel like if they were doing their jobs properly more plays would have come to them, and the dramatically low numbers are indicative of that not being the case.

Lotus 10-04-2012 01:07 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Ruhskins;948897]I think our d-line is doing a good job, especially on the run D. The only thing I'd like to see them improve is to be able to be more disruptive in the passing game and collapse the pocket.[/quote]

Agreed. Cofield especially needs to be better at getting a push up the gut.

Paintrain 10-04-2012 01:29 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Our DL numbers will always look bad because they are not a stat driven unit. Our LB should rack up high tackle numbers. Our DL are there to occupy blockers. Teams have done a good job of getting the ball out quickly against us because of our poor secondary so even the overflow numbers our DL could be getting they are not.

The Goat 10-04-2012 02:00 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I've been pretty impressed with Bowen, and think he's the best of our DL FA signings. Bowen can blow up o lineman and we've seen him bat a ball or two out of the sky.

I understand Cofield is a space eater but he's definitely not done anything special so far. No pressure. No tackles. To be honest I didn't know anything about him when we picked him up and he's still Turd Ferguson as far as I can tell i.e. just another body.

CultBrennan59 10-04-2012 02:18 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Our DLine isn't as good as our DL last year, having said that, we are getting young and putting our talented players out there (Jarvis Jenkins, Chris Baker) to see what they've got. And so far Haslett has been saying that Jarvis has been looking real good. And Chris Baker if you watch him has been pushing the pocket everytime he gets in. He looks better than Neild did in his limited minutes last year.

Bucket 10-04-2012 02:23 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Not sure how accurate they are. I remember Bowen having 2-3 pass deflections this year.

The Goat 10-04-2012 02:48 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Bucket;948947]Not sure how accurate they are. I remember Bowen having 2-3 pass deflections this year.[/quote]

Same here. But regarding sacks, tackles, strips it's been pretty quiet.

CrustyRedskin 10-04-2012 02:49 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I like how they play the run, and Golhston made a heck of a play on a screen the other day saving a long gainer.

Ruhskins 10-04-2012 02:50 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
The Ravens back up D-line (2 DEs and 1 NT) has 11 tackles this season. But they also have great DBs.

The Goat 10-04-2012 02:57 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Ruhskins;948968]The Ravens back up D-line (2 DEs and 1 NT) has 11 tackles this season. But they also have great DBs.[/quote]

...and Ed Reed. The best safety in football and maybe the best to ever play IMO.

calia 10-04-2012 03:22 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
To be clear, though, the D-line is obviously designed to free up the LBs to make tackles, and they've done that. But if you look at teams with really strong 3-4 defenses, their front three do have tackles, sacks, and forced fumbles, and our guys aren't generating that. Until we do, I think opposing QBs are going to have enough time to pick our struggling secondary apart. They've been good at clogging lanes so that RBs don't have room (and our LBs have been closing fast and tackling well), and I agree that Bowen has looked pretty strong in getting his hands up on passes and otherwise forcing QBs to worry about him, but losing Carriker and Nield has been significant. I would also add that losing Orakpo has hurt the front 3 a lot -- teams can focus only on Kerrigan as they think that no other D-lineman can get to the QB. With Orakpo and Kerrigan, the D-linemen won't get as much O-line attention, and can get more pressure, etc.

Bottom line: with the injuries we have had, we really need to see if we can get better production out of Jenkins, Baker, and Cofield if our D is going to improve this year.

SFREDSKIN 10-04-2012 04:38 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
One thing the line has been doing on a consistent basis, is deflecting many passes, especially Bowen.

CrustyRedskin 10-04-2012 04:42 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=SFREDSKIN;949004]One thing the line has been doing on a consistent basis, is deflecting many passes, especially Bowen.[/quote]

That's a good deal cause the target it's headed to is more than likely wide ass open.

SFREDSKIN 10-04-2012 04:43 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=CrustyRedskin;949005]That's a good deal cause the target it's headed to is more than likely wide ass open.[/quote]

Like the NO game that Bowen prevented a TD.

skinsfan69 10-04-2012 05:04 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I'd like to see a little more of a pass rush but they've been solid, especially against the run.

Mechanix544 10-04-2012 06:30 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=SFREDSKIN;949006]Like the NO game that Bowen prevented a TD.[/quote]

so did orakpo, twice in a row inside the 15 if I remember correctly. Orakpo is not among the 5 best at his position in all of football, but he is a strong veteran player who did take alot of the focus off of the front three. With him gone, the front three are getting double teamed and chipped, when Orakpo was the main concern. Now that has shifted, because even though Kerrigan is a stud, he is not as pure of a pass rusher as Orakpo. He is better in space and in coverage than Orakpo, and is quicker, but most of the time opposition doesnt double team Kerrigan. This negatively affects our front three, but the bottom line is they HAVE to create more havoc than they have been in order to somewhat cover up the ridiculous weakness that is our secondary. Our entire season might be riding on the effort that they bring, because without it, teams look like they are going to score at will.

Evilgrin 10-04-2012 06:54 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Pass rush hasn't been good, but 2 injuries and everyone that watches Jenkins says he isn't back yet.

los panda 10-04-2012 06:55 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Evilgrin;949025]Pass rush hasn't been good, but 2 injuries and everyone that watches Jenkins says he isn't back yet.[/quote]when he gets back, he's going to cause some serious problems for his opposition. he looks a lot bigger and stronger than his listed size. i believe in jarvis!

punch it in 10-04-2012 07:29 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I just pointed this out in another thread, but here goes again. We are not as strong against the run as we think. We are actually in the bottom third of the league when it comes to yards per carry - only nine teams give up more than us. We are up there in total yards, but teams dont run alot on us. Why - because they know how easy it is to pass on us. The only team that really attacked us on the ground was the Rams and they shredded us for 170 yards.

RGIII 10-04-2012 07:54 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Cofield isn't built to play nose in the pros. He's playing hard and doing a repectable job but, the lack of brut push up the middle isn't there. That's not his strength, never has been.

Evilgrin 10-04-2012 08:02 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=punch it in;949031]I just pointed this out in another thread, but here goes again. We are not as strong against the run as we think. We are actually in the bottom third of the league when it comes to yards per carry - only nine teams give up more than us. We are up there in total yards, but teams dont run alot on us. Why - because they know how easy it is to pass on us. The only team that really attacked us on the ground was the Rams and they shredded us for 170 yards.[/quote]

I think your probably right on this unfortunately.

punch it in 10-04-2012 08:10 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Evilgrin;949039]I think your probably right on this unfortunately.[/quote]

After seeing all the posts about the run d not being so bad and ranked up in the top D's I have been excited about it actually - like - oh we are a corner or safety away and maybe its not Haslett, etc, etc. Than today I was thinking about the Rams game and I started digging. Didnt like what I found either.

MTK 10-04-2012 08:34 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Cincy did try to pound it a bit, Green-Ellis had 17 carries for less than 40 yards.

Outside of the Rams game I think we've done a good job against the run.

whistler 10-04-2012 09:04 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=punch it in;949031]I just pointed this out in another thread, but here goes again. We are not as strong against the run as we think. We are actually in the bottom third of the league when it comes to yards per carry - only nine teams give up more than us. We are up there in total yards, but teams dont run alot on us. Why - because they know how easy it is to pass on us. The only team that really attacked us on the ground was the Rams and they shredded us for 170 yards.[/quote]

This post is correct, the run defense is not that good by the front 3 or 5 as it is. They get blocked and stay blocked. Also, there is absolutely no pass rush or pressure, that's why opposing qbs have an extremely high passer rating against the skin's defense. It not all the dbs fault, however some fault does lie with the dbs not being asked to cover tighter, longer. The pass rush is terrible, watch a game, the opposing qbs usually have more that 3 seconds regularly in obvious passing situations. NO PASS RUSH.

ethat001 10-04-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=punch it in;949031]I just pointed this out in another thread, but here goes again. We are not as strong against the run as we think. We are actually in the bottom third of the league when it comes to yards per carry - only nine teams give up more than us. We are up there in total yards, but teams dont run alot on us. Why - because they know how easy it is to pass on us. The only team that really attacked us on the ground was the Rams and they shredded us for 170 yards.[/quote]

A scary thought.

Dirtbag59 10-04-2012 09:37 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=los panda;948876]those numbers don't tell the whole story, just like this one doesn't, either:

redskins a top 10 rushing defense w 89 rushing yards allowed per game.[/quote]

True enough but at the same time we have to realize that our offense is either making teams play catch up or nipping at their heels. On top of that our pass defenses is swiss cheese and it's just been too for a lot of our opponents rack up passing yards.

REDSKINS4ever 10-05-2012 02:11 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Nothing is wrong with the Redskins d-line. They are rock solid against the run.

punch it in 10-05-2012 07:36 PM

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;949218]Nothing is wrong with the Redskins d-line. They are rock solid against the run.[/QUOTE]

No they are not. They are in the bottom third of the league in yards per carry. Teams just dont run the ball on us because of our inabiility to cover anybodys pass game. When they do run they are successful. Stats dont lie.


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4mrusmc 10-06-2012 12:23 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
Our defensive line is absolutely not getting any kind of pressure on the qb. The stat that they have been strong against the run is a bit deceiving. Thanks in large part to RGIII, and the offense scoring mad point early. Thus having opposing offenses going to the pass to try to get back in games. Our defense is horrid, and truly a disgrace to be considered an NFL caliber defense. I put the blame on Hasslett. I feel that there is too much talent on the d-line for it to not to be doing better. I looks to me to be a technique and scheme thing. Hasslett has to go after this year, and we need an upgrade at the db position.

Mechanix544 10-06-2012 02:20 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=REDSKINS4ever;949218]Nothing is wrong with the Redskins d-line. They are rock solid against the run.[/quote]

No they are not. They are bottom ten in yards allowed per rush. I'd wager that if people didn't throw so much on us, that number might even be higher................We gotta shore that up to make a run in the NFCE. Lesean McCoy and Bradshaw are both going to cream us if we don't...

RGIII 10-06-2012 02:43 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I know Chris Baker is penned as a reserve NT but, I say work him at DE too. Guys' size don't always determine if they will have success at any position.

CRedskinsRule 10-06-2012 03:52 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
[quote=Mechanix544;949338]No they are not. They are bottom ten in yards allowed per rush. I'd wager that if people didn't throw so much on us, that number might even be higher................We gotta shore that up to make a run in the NFCE. Lesean McCoy and Bradshaw are both going to cream us if we don't...[/quote]

I think you have some fair points but still think we are better if they have to run due to weather. Just playing with the stats, we are tied with Houston for 4th least rush attempts against our defense. And 19th in yards per attempt. As is our nature, though, we have a tendency to be a stiff defense, then give up one or two long runs. The longest being 53 (6th longest in the league).

Ultimately, while ATL might get one or two big plays it won't be a scoring fest for them if the game is more run oriented.

The Goat 10-06-2012 04:13 PM

Re: Whats up with the D-Line?
 
I hate beating a dead horse, but the real evaluation of the defense is comparing it to what Mike and Bruce inherited, and simply put this defense is garbage in comparison. Just garbage. I don't give two shits about one run defense stat. What matters are points scored, and the pre-Shanahan defense rarely gave up more than 20 points a game.
Also, the argument defense is giving up points because we have a high scoring offense is beyond absurd. C'mon guys let's not circulate nonsense that sounds like we're grade school kids on the internet here. The pre Shanahan defense spent a lot of time on the field (more than it does today to be sure) and still gave up fewer points. This defense gives up points because it's a lousy defense. Period.


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