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-   -   Societal Decay - Henson Ong (http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/51596-societal-decay-henson-ong.html)

RedskinRat 01-29-2013 03:01 PM

Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
I agree with this fellow immigrant:

Societal Decay - Henson Ong

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyYYgLzF6zU&feature=player_embedded]Henson Ong at Gun Violence Prevention Public Hearing - Hartford, CT - 1/28/2013 - YouTube[/ame]

HailGreen28 01-29-2013 08:28 PM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
Great speech. Cut short by the politician "please wrap it up", lol.


[URL="http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/beauty-second-amendment-quotation"]Thomas Jefferson: "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."[/URL]

[URL="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution"]Thomas Jefferson - No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms. - Proposed Virginia Constitution, June, 1776.[/URL]

hooskins 01-29-2013 08:38 PM

Keep citing stuff thats hundreds of years old.

Things change. The world changes.

hooskins 01-29-2013 08:43 PM

Like of the comments said the capacity and availability of guns is what has changed. Societal decay is a cop out. Its always easier to blame abstract qualitative things than look at fact

hooskins 01-29-2013 08:49 PM

Also is a new thread really necessary?

RedskinRat 01-29-2013 09:42 PM

[QUOTE=hooskins;991684]Like of the comments said the capacity and availability of guns is what has changed. Societal decay is a cop out. Its always easier to blame abstract qualitative things than look at fact[/QUOTE]

Yes, we have more guns and demonstrably less violence.

firstdown 01-29-2013 10:31 PM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=hooskins;991684]Like of the comments said the capacity and availability of guns is what has changed.[B] Societal decay[/B] is a cop out. Its always easier to blame abstract qualitative things than look at fact[/quote]


So with more killing your saying its not a societal decay and it just that we have more guns?

Alvin Walton 01-30-2013 09:08 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=hooskins;991687]Also is a new thread really necessary?[/quote]

Maxed out your hard drive did it?

That Guy 01-30-2013 09:40 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=RedskinRat;991701]Yes, we have more guns and demonstrably less violence.[/quote]

yes, that's why we're #10 on gun deaths per capita at 10.2/100,000 and england is nearly last with 0.25/100,000.

so, the country with restrictive gun laws has 1 gun death per 400,000 people and the US has 1 per 10,000. our increased supply of guns apparently makes us safer (??) by killing 4,000% more people per year.

I love flawed logic. it's great.

RedskinRat 01-30-2013 10:14 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=That Guy;991746]yes, that's why we're #10 on gun deaths per capita at 10.2/100,000 and england is nearly last with 0.25/100,000.

so, the country with restrictive gun laws has 1 gun death per 400,000 people and the US has 1 per 10,000. our increased supply of guns apparently makes us safer (??) by killing 4,000% more people per year.

I love flawed logic. it's great.[/quote]

I didn't say 'gun deaths', I said 'violence'.

HailGreen28 01-30-2013 11:03 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=hooskins;991683]Keep citing stuff thats hundreds of years old.

Things change. The world changes.[/quote]As far as gun violence goes, try about fifty or so, when we didn't have the same kind of problems we have today. As far as principle goes, some principles don't change. Like equality, free speech, independence, and responsibility.

RedskinRat 01-30-2013 11:35 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=HailGreen28;991761]As far as gun violence goes, try about fifty or so, when we didn't have the same kind of problems we have today. As far as principle goes, some principles don't change. Like equality, free speech, independence, and responsibility.[/quote]

It's similar to the irrational argument that '[I]it was written when we only had muskets, so you can have as many muskets as you want[/I]' (Jon Stewart, I think). What does the Government come to my home armed with? I want that. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, to protect us from a despotic Government.

firstdown 01-30-2013 11:41 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=That Guy;991746]yes, that's why we're #10 on gun deaths per capita at 10.2/100,000 and england is nearly last with 0.25/100,000.

so, the country with restrictive gun laws has 1 gun death per 400,000 people and the US has 1 per 10,000. our increased supply of guns apparently makes us safer (??) by killing 4,000% more people per year.

I love flawed logic. it's great.[/quote]

I don't have the time to look it up there are also countries that have way more guns per person then the US and have very little to no gun violence. There are also countries that ban guns and have a high gun violence. I'll look for the article I read about that and post when I get a chance.

RedskinRat 01-30-2013 11:47 AM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
[quote=firstdown;991767]I don't have the time to look it up there are also countries that have way more guns per person then the US and have very little to no gun violence. There are also countries that ban guns and have a high gun violence. I'll look for the article I read about that and post when I get a chance.[/quote]

Switzerland has the third highest rate of ownership (due to their militia) and one of the lowest rates of gun crime, due to their responsible citizenry.

[IMG]http://mark.reid.name/images/figures/homicide-vs-guns-all.png[/IMG]

[URL="http://mark.reid.name/iem/gun-deaths-vs-gun-ownership.html"]This nice chap has done the work for you[/URL]

That Guy 01-30-2013 12:20 PM

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 
switzerland isn't close to the "lowest" they have 3.8 deaths per capita, ~40% of the US total, and about 1600% more than the UK.

I'd also argue that gun deaths are a kind gun violence. I wonder how armed robbery and armed rape stack up vs other countries...


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