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Daseal 03-21-2005 01:57 AM

Down by contact.
 
According to John Clayton's latest article ([url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2016392&num=2[/url]) the NFL owners plan on changing down by contact. Personally I hope it's challengable because we've lost some key fumbles because of this rule. I think if you can change the play to be correct, do it!

[QUOTE]2. Instant replay: Now that replay is locked in for five years this is officially year two of the five-year commitment it's time to improve the system. The Competition Committee wants to eliminate the buzzer system between the head coaches and the referee. Too many times, the buzzer goes off and the ref has to stop the game and see if the coach has "buzzed" him. So, the committee wants to junk the sideline buzzer and stick with the red flags thrown by coaches. Makes sense. The buzzer is more of a distraction than an asset. That should pass simply. The trickier talk is whether to expand the types of reviewable plays. Coaches have been frustrated by the inadvertent whistles by officials for years. What the committee wants owners to consider is expanding replay to include "down by contact" plays. As the rule stands now, any time an official rules a player down by contact the play is dead, and can't be reviewed, even if it was an obvious fumble. By reviewing the down-by-contact plays, referees can make sure the right team ends up with the ball in case of fumbles. Advancement of the ball after a down-by-contact play won't be allowed, but an adjustment such as this would be an upgrade.[/QUOTE]

That Guy 03-21-2005 02:10 AM

Re: Down by contact.
 
now we need pass interference as challengeable and we'll be set... quite possibly could have gone 8-8 if it was challengeable last year.

offiss 03-21-2005 04:24 AM

Re: Down by contact.
 
I have been saying it since they started it down by contact rule is a sham, and should be done away with.

FRPLG 03-21-2005 09:23 AM

Re: Down by contact.
 
The down by contact rule makes total sense. The problem is that the refs are too moronic and stuck in their ways to enforce the rule appropriately. There are way too many of them blowing whistles when they should let the play come to an obvious end before blowing the whistle. If they could be trusted not to negate at least one fumble a game this way then the NFL wouldn't need to enact some rule that might blow up in their faces.

Daseal 03-21-2005 12:36 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
Why shouldn't you be able to challenge any play you want? Considering you have 2 (or 3 if you get the first two correct) challenges it won't slow the game down any more. Plus, some of the most crucial plays in the game are down by contact plays and PI calls.

Monksdown 03-21-2005 01:24 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
I wish we could have challenged the play calling when S......r was here.

FRPLG 03-21-2005 01:40 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]Why shouldn't you be able to challenge any play you want? Considering you have 2 (or 3 if you get the first two correct) challenges it won't slow the game down any more. Plus, some of the most crucial plays in the game are down by contact plays and PI calls.[/QUOTE]
I agree... I'll never understand why exactly they are willing to admit that the refs make mistakes but only some of those are fixable. People like to say that there are judgement calls, like PI for example. True, at full speed PI is pretty subjective. But the rules on PI are pretty straight forward and at review speed it is usually very easy to determine whether a guy was intereferred with or not. It is only subjective at full speed.

saden1 03-21-2005 01:58 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
Everything should be challengeable. The game would be much more of a chess game. You only get two so you have to use them wisely. I don't about you guys but I thought Gibbs and company were horrible when it came to challenging calls last year.

Daseal 03-21-2005 02:26 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[quote]I wish we could have challenged the play calling when S......r was here.[/quote]

Because the playcalling last year made Spurriers pale in comparison!

offiss 03-21-2005 03:50 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=FRPLG]The down by contact rule makes total sense. The problem is that the refs are too moronic and stuck in their ways to enforce the rule appropriately. There are way too many of them blowing whistles when they should let the play come to an obvious end before blowing the whistle. If they could be trusted not to negate at least one fumble a game this way then the NFL wouldn't need to enact some rule that might blow up in their faces.[/QUOTE]


What you have to understand about the DBC rule FRPLG is that it's not caused by an early whistle it's a judgement call by the referee on when he want's the play stopped. In other word's he's given the ability to essentially control the outcome of a game by whom he award's the ball to anytime something happen's that he may not like he can stop the play and say down by contact. As well he can blow the whistle after a turnover and and stop the play and because he stopped the play can overturn the turnover, if they take away the ability to do that the only way to overturn a big play is if he actually blow's the whistle to soon which is a common misconception, because when you watch the replay's with full audio most of the time the ref's are pretty good at making sure the play is fully over before blowing the whistle, and even if they blow the whistle prematuraly if it's deemed that the ball came out before the whistle the recovery should stand, advancement of the ball should be disallowed but taking away turnovers can break a team and change the outcome of a game in a hurry, let them play let instant replay sort it out if need be.

I also wouldn't punish a team by taking away a time out when a particular replay is inconclusive, it's not the challenging team's fault if the camera angle is not sufficient, they could very well be right it's just not visible by replay. I would give each team 2 challenges and so long as you are right you can continue to challenge as many play's as you want, even during the final 2 minutes, I am very leary of that rule and why at the most crucial part of the game the NFL say's sorry no challenges we will take it from here? So long as you have a time out you should be able to challenge.

CrazyCanuck 03-21-2005 04:20 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=That Guy]now we need pass interference as challengeable and we'll be set... quite possibly could have gone 8-8 if it was challengeable last year.[/QUOTE]

Amen. IMO the PI calls in the NFL need the most immediate attention. Pass interference is a totally subjective call and the consequences are huge and game altering (see 1st Dallas game 2004).

FRPLG 03-21-2005 04:21 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=offiss]What you have to understand about the DBC rule FRPLG is that it's not caused by an early whistle it's a judgement call by the referee on when he want's the play stopped. In other word's he's given the ability to essentially control the outcome of a game by whom he award's the ball to anytime something happen's that he may not like he can stop the play and say down by contact. As well he can blow the whistle after a turnover and and stop the play and because he stopped the play can overturn the turnover, if they take away the ability to do that the only way to overturn a big play is if he actually blow's the whistle to soon which is a common misconception, because when you watch the replay's with full audio most of the time the ref's are pretty good at making sure the play is fully over before blowing the whistle, and even if they blow the whistle prematuraly if it's deemed that the ball came out before the whistle the recovery should stand, advancement of the ball should be disallowed but taking away turnovers can break a team and change the outcome of a game in a hurry, let them play let instant replay sort it out if need be.

I also wouldn't punish a team by taking away a time out when a particular replay is inconclusive, it's not the challenging team's fault if the camera angle is not sufficient, they could very well be right it's just not visible by replay. I would give each team 2 challenges and so long as you are right you can continue to challenge as many play's as you want, even during the final 2 minutes, I am very leary of that rule and why at the most crucial part of the game the NFL say's sorry no challenges we will take it from here? So long as you have a time out you should be able to challenge.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly sure what you are getting at with that first paragraph versus what I said???
What the owners are discussing is specifically tied to early whistles. DBC in a broad sense is reviewable as it is often difficult for referees to determine DBC in a large crowd of players. In these situations refs are genrally good at letting the play come to a complete end. What we are talking about here is early whistles that theoretically end a play BEFORE it should have been ended. Everyone knows the play was ended early but there is nothing to be done because the thought goes that once a whistle is blown the players stop playing and the play is irrevocably changed in an undeterminable fashion. The new rule would allow for a fumble to occur after a whistle and still be awarded to the recovering team. Sounds great but what happens when some players start ignoring the whistle and others dont? They'll be injuries. The whistle is there to stop everything immediatley for a reason. SO that everuone knows to lay off the full bore action. If officials could do a better job of not ending plays prematurely then there would be little need for a rule which could lead to increased injuries.

Daseal 03-21-2005 05:16 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
I doubt that, FRPLG. Even with the whistles you see guys struggling on the bottom of the pile for a ball. The refs have to come peel them off one at a time. When it's an obvious fumble (any time we've played Tiki Barber or Stephen Davis) then it should be returnable. I agree with Offiss when they come back and say they didn't have the correct shot to view a play, the team should NOT be charged a time out. I've seen so many bad calls unchallengable because of down by contact it made me sick!

gibbsisgod 03-21-2005 05:39 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]I doubt that, FRPLG. Even with the whistles you see guys struggling on the bottom of the pile for a ball. The refs have to come peel them off one at a time. When it's an obvious fumble (any time we've played Tiki Barber or Stephen Davis) then it should be returnable. I agree with Offiss when they come back and say they didn't have the correct shot to view a play, the team should NOT be charged a time out. I've seen so many bad calls unchallengable because of down by contact it made me sick![/QUOTE]thats a damn good idea..do not charg a team a to for "inconclusive evidence"

FRPLG 03-21-2005 05:53 PM

Re: Down by contact.
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]I doubt that, FRPLG. Even with the whistles you see guys struggling on the bottom of the pile for a ball. The refs have to come peel them off one at a time. When it's an obvious fumble (any time we've played Tiki Barber or Stephen Davis) then it should be returnable. I agree with Offiss when they come back and say they didn't have the correct shot to view a play, the team should NOT be charged a time out. I've seen so many bad calls unchallengable because of down by contact it made me sick![/QUOTE]
What do you doubt? Does anyone read around here? My point is not neccesarily that the rule shouldn't be implemented but that a better fix would be to get better officals who don't suck donkey balls. Two people have now made arguments that have basically nothing to do with what I posted...jeez.


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