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The Goat 11-25-2013 02:28 PM

How the NFL works...
 
Been wanting to start this thread for a coon's age, partly to explain my harshness toward the current regime and because the article linked below is a great read. It's a few years old, but holds true as ever today.

[url=http://www.economist.com/node/6859210]American sports: In a league of its own | The Economist[/url]

The whole idea within/behind the NFL's structure is parity. The strict salary cap, draft scheme and profit sharing all strongly promote parity among the franchises toward maximizing competitiveness between the rosters that take the field every game. As well, the NFL has a strong innate parity factor because player longevity is relatively short, between three and four years, by all accounts. What it all boils down to really is any franchise in the league can be turned around (for good or bad) in roughly that time. The whole system promotes balance and equal opportunity, if you will.

To be the bottom of a division three out of four years, especially a division struggling across the board, should be less than rare. Nobody is this unlucky. If you believe Shanahan or any NFL coach who loses this consistently is unlucky, you're the type of person who burnt "witches" at the stake a few hundred years ago. You have to be epically incompetent to lose so consistently in this league. And given Mike's near total control of the franchise, I would argue he's high in the running for the most incompetent HC in decades at this point.

But back to the parity discussion, it's why I can always feel optimistic about the Skins future. Hit on the right coach/GM, and you can be top of the league in just a couple years. If there's "luck" in the NFL, it's picking the next HC/GM poised to dominate the chess board.

Here's to the 2014 off-season and "lucky" choices :food-smil

MTK 11-25-2013 04:22 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
We did come out of nowhere last year to win the division, right?

Parity at it's finest.

donofriose 11-25-2013 04:34 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
Out of the major sports, interestingly enough Baseball has the most parity in terms of champions, and it also has no salary cap. It is interesting to see how the salary cap actually prevents parity.

MTK 11-25-2013 04:41 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=donofriose;1043384]Out of the major sports, interestingly enough Baseball has the most parity in terms of champions, and it also has no salary cap. It is interesting to see how the salary cap actually prevents parity.[/quote]

To your point

[url=http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/stark_jayson/id/7420412/]Baseball, not NFL, still the king of parity - ESPN[/url]

Gary84Clark 11-25-2013 04:47 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
Luck sux

The Goat 11-25-2013 04:57 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043382]We did come out of nowhere last year to win the division, right?

Parity at it's finest.[/quote]

Not out of nowhere really. The rest of the division was in shambles and the Shanahans got the most out of a one time gimmick offensive scheme that (briefly) neutralized defenses. It was, by any measure, a glaring outlier.

The Goat 11-25-2013 05:03 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043385]To your point

[URL="http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/stark_jayson/id/7420412/"]Baseball, not NFL, still the king of parity - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

Errrr, I'll take the acumen from any thinker at the Economist over any sports writer/journalist (and especially a blogger lol) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

MTK 11-25-2013 05:04 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043387]Not out of nowhere really. The rest of the division was in shambles and the Shanahans got the most out of a one time gimmick offensive scheme that (briefly) neutralized defenses. It was, by any measure, a glaring outlier.[/quote]

How many experts picked the Skins to win the East last year?? Most people agreed their ceiling was probably 7 or 8 wins.

A team going from 5-11 to 10-6 and division champs is what parity is all about.

MTK 11-25-2013 05:13 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043388]Errrr, I'll take the acumen from any thinker at the Economist over any sports writer/journalist (and especially a blogger lol) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.[/quote]

Problem is your article is so outdated and can't take into account the last 7 years of info/data. The NFL preaches parity but baseball is clearly the leader.

Stark isn't merely a blogger. :doh:

Giantone 11-25-2013 05:15 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043387]Not out of nowhere really. The rest of the division was in shambles .[/quote]



Really ? Considering just the season before the Super Bowl Champion came out of the division, what shambles ?You won it with a 10-6 record , Giants were also 9-7 .People always forget 2 things in football 1)cohesiveness ,usually a team with less talent but jells well wins 2) luck ....teams that win have a certain amount of luck with them also .

Chico23231 11-25-2013 05:19 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043391]Problem is your article is so outdated and can't take into account the last 7 years of info/data. The NFL preaches parity but baseball is clearly the leader.

[B]Stark isn't merely a blogger[/B]. :doh:[/quote]

How the Goat works...

The Goat 11-25-2013 05:19 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043389]How many experts picked the Skins to win the East last year?? Most people agreed their ceiling was probably 7 or 8 wins.

A team going from 5-11 to 10-6 and division champs is what parity is all about.[/quote]

And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.

I mean, we beat two winning teams all last season. You've really got layers of outliers. The division (year) was an outlier. The easy schedule was an outlier. The gimmick offense an obvious outlier.

Anyway, I think we're getting close to the end of this dark era and there's great opportunities ahead. That was my purpose for the thread.

Giantone 11-25-2013 05:31 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[QUOTE=The Goat;1043396]And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.



QUOTE]

So, only the Cowboys and the Eagles had players injured last year ,ok .

CrazyCanuck 11-25-2013 05:33 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043391]The NFL preaches parity but baseball is clearly the leader.[/quote]

With all due respect to the EGO, this is false. The writer cherry picks one little indicator to demonstrate parity.

Baseball is a fckn joke and Selig is a douchebag. I'll leave it at that cuz I'm starting to get angry. :mad:

The Goat 11-25-2013 05:35 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Giantone;1043397][QUOTE=The Goat;1043396]And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.



QUOTE]

So, only the Cowboys and the Eagles had players injured last year ,ok .[/quote]

LOL I'm not trying to leave y'all out. Giants had injuries, just didn't feel like they were in it all season. Post SB peak, similar to so many other winners.

JoeRedskin 11-25-2013 05:41 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043396]And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.

I mean, we beat two winning teams all last season. You've really got layers of outliers. The division (year) was an outlier. The easy schedule was an outlier. The gimmick offense an obvious outlier.

Anyway, I think we're getting close to the end of this dark era and there's great opportunities ahead. That was my purpose for the thread.[/quote]

Again with the "We only beat two winning teams" -- Say all you want about this year, but stop twisting last year's run into something other than a good team putting it together and going on a run against all types of of teams - even when it's starting QB went down. Jesus.

I did this once before with you - you're ability to twist facts so that they contort to confirm your bias and do so with a straight face is simply mind blowing. See Post 238 in the "Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?" thread:

[quote]Really nice revisionist history. "We won seven games in spite of bad coaching and were really just lucky." [EDIT: [I]Your words quoted[/I]]

Let's get our facts straight shall we? During our run we beat the Cowboys (twice), the Giants, the Eagles (twice), the Ravens (you know, the eventual SB winners), and the Browns (with our back-up rookie QB, btw). In that run we scored 27 or more points six times and topped 30 points four times.

Had we not beaten the Cowboys (twice), they would have had a record of either 9-7 or 10-6 and would been in the play-offs had we even one lost just one to them. As to their "8-9 starters", please tell me who they were. I know S. Lee went down (a big loss), Radcliff (not so much), but, as I recall, we were playing w/out a few guys too. Outside the division, they were 5-5.

Had we not beaten the Giants (who were 7-4 to our 5-6 when we played them), they would have ended up 10-6 and in the play-offs. After playing us, their only other two losses were to the Baltimore Ravens, in Baltimore (You know, the eventual SB champs) and Atlanta in Atlanta (the NFC West Champs). Outside the division they were 6-4 (including wins over SF and GBay).

The only "gimme" games in the run were the Eagles. Cleveland wasn't good but we were down our starting QB. I seem to recall the rest of the team demonstrating a great deal of " discipline, preparedness and heart" in that game.

Have they lacked those things so far this year? Yup. However, to assert they lacked "discipline, preparedness and heart" during the run is simply ignorant, subjective, revisionist history originating from, consistent with and now used for support of your "Shanahan sucks at everything and always has" mindset.

... but, hey, every village needs an idiot. Thanks for filling an essential role here on the WP. [/quote]

JoeRedskin 11-25-2013 05:45 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043399]LOL I'm not trying to leave y'all out. Giants had injuries, just didn't feel like they were in it all season. Post SB peak, similar to so many other winners.[/quote]

They were 7-4 going into December with wins against San Francisco and Green Bay. They finished 9-7, with losses down the stretch to us, Baltimore (in Baltimore) and Atlanta (in Atlanta). They missed out on the playoffs BECAUSE WE BEAT THEM.

Such BS revisionist history.

ram29jackson 11-25-2013 05:53 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[QUOTE]franchise in the league can be turned around (for good or bad) in roughly that time. The whole system promotes balance and equal opportunity, if you will.[/QUOTE]

parity means everybody sucks. Equality is for losers

MTK 11-25-2013 06:36 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=CrazyCanuck;1043398]With all due respect to the EGO, this is false. The writer cherry picks one little indicator to demonstrate parity.

Baseball is a fckn joke and Selig is a douchebag. I'll leave it at that cuz I'm starting to get angry. :mad:[/quote]

I'm not a fan of baseball either, but he throws out several facts to support his claim. How is he wrong exactly?

MTK 11-25-2013 06:44 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043396]And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.

I mean, we beat two winning teams all last season. You've really got layers of outliers. The division (year) was an outlier. The easy schedule was an outlier. The gimmick offense an obvious outlier.

Anyway, I think we're getting close to the end of this dark era and there's great opportunities ahead. That was my purpose for the thread.[/quote]

Once again you line up the excuses for other teams... but ignore the fact we had plenty of injuries to contend with as well. We actually beat 3 winning teams, Minnesota, the Giants, and the Ravens.

10 wins, a div title, rookie of the year, 7 game win streak, 2nd leading rusher in the league, there's a lot of positives there. No need to discredit it.

Skinzman 11-25-2013 06:52 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043407]Once again you line up the excuses for other teams... but ignore the fact we had plenty of injuries to contend with as well. We actually beat 3 winning teams, Minnesota, the Giants, and the Ravens.

10 wins, a div title, rookie of the year, 7 game win streak, 2nd leading rusher in the league, there's a lot of positives there. [B]No need to discredit it[/B].[/quote]

Of course he needs to discredit it. It doesnt fit the narrative to the whole fire Shanny routine. Thats why all the anti-Shanny people never acknowledge the state of the team coming out of the Vinny era (usually acting like it was a very talented team) or the 18 mil cap penalty either. It looks a lot better to include that first year or two record where we had little chance and to assume 18 mil in cap space means nothing.

Thats also why they are pushing so hard for it to happen at the end of this year. They want that 18 mil to be a difference maker so they can say "See, I told you so".

Hog1 11-25-2013 07:23 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
The NFL has indeed achieved parity, and poor football......
--Steve Young

SmootSmack 11-25-2013 07:30 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043396]And a typical season within the NFCE 7 or 8 wins would have been the ceiling (though I suspect probably fewer, more like '10, '11, '13). But then the Cowboys saw umpteen players go out injured. The Eagles lost their best player (Jason Peters) along with several others and fell to pieces at the tail end of Reid's tenure. The Giants really never showed up all season.

I mean, we beat two winning teams all last season. You've really got layers of outliers. The division (year) was an outlier. The easy schedule was an outlier. The gimmick offense an obvious outlier.

Anyway, I think we're getting close to the end of this dark era and there's great opportunities ahead. That was my purpose for the thread.[/quote]

No one believes that was your purpose for this thread

The Goat 11-25-2013 07:50 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=SmootSmack;1043415]No one believes that was your purpose for this thread[/quote]

I don't follow? Are you saying a good hire for our next HC won't lead to good things in the seasons ahead? That's the whole point IMO. The nfl is structured such that turnarounds come happen quickly. We've seen it across the whole NFC west now basically. Really too many examples of it to list.

I'm wondering if the subject matter is above some folks pay grade here...

The Goat 11-25-2013 07:54 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
I think the nfl is extremely competitive and the quality of the product overall pretty impressive too btw.

Lotus 11-25-2013 08:31 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
The point is simple: Of course the NFL experiences parity. The 2012 Skins demonstrated this.

As an attempt to take a shot at the Shanahans, this thread fails.

SmootSmack 11-25-2013 08:44 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043416]I don't follow? Are you saying a good hire for our next HC won't lead to good things in the seasons ahead? That's the whole point IMO. The nfl is structured such that turnarounds come happen quickly. We've seen it across the whole NFC west now basically. Really too many examples of it to list.

I'm wondering if the subject matter is above some folks pay grade here...[/quote]

Sigh...you handle this JoeRedskin

ram29jackson 11-25-2013 08:57 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=The Goat;1043419]I think the nfl is extremely competitive and the quality of the product overall pretty impressive too btw.[/quote]

cough))) lol when did you start watching ? 2 years ago ? j/k


when 4 teams make the playoffs the same year with 1st year/rookie QBs ( I Include Kaep) that means theres something lacking in the professional quality of the product.

BaltimoreSkins 11-25-2013 09:03 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
So we have a turnaround with a coach after three years and that is not an example of parity? hmmm you spin me right round baby right round like a record baby.

ram29jackson 11-25-2013 09:16 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1043430]So we have a turnaround with a coach after three years and that is not an example of parity? hmmm you spin me right round baby right round like a record baby.[/quote]
[YT]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU]Dead Or Alive - You Spin Me Round (Like a Record) - YouTube[/ame][/YT]

Giantone 11-26-2013 07:29 AM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=JoeRedskin;1043401]They were 7-4 going into December with wins against San Francisco and Green Bay. They finished 9-7, with losses down the stretch to us, Baltimore (in Baltimore) and Atlanta (in Atlanta). They missed out on the playoffs BECAUSE WE BEAT THEM.

Such BS revisionist history.[/quote]

kinda my point .

diehardskin2982 11-26-2013 09:37 AM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
I can't understand this argument that Shanny is the worst coach when we lost 2 first rounders and a 2nd to get one guy. Then we are stripped of cap space for 2 years. There are two ways to obtain talent in the NFL, free agency and the draft. We have been hindered from being able to properly use either because of self inflicted wounds of management.

The Goat 11-26-2013 07:12 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
In the big picture, the Shanahan hire was a step in the right direction for the franchise, even though Mike might well have been the worst hire/candidate possible. Sounds weird, but it's true. Dan turned the team over to someone he thought knew how to rebuild the team. That took some hard decisions on Dan's part. The hope we all have is Dan continues toward the final goal of a traditional FO structure, with a legit GM (we have one) and next a coach who can field a competitive team.

I still give Dan credit, even though he made a terrible choice in Shanahan. It's a process, and again with luck the next HC choice will be the right guy and just two or three years from now we're rooting for a serious football team!

JoeRedskin 11-26-2013 08:37 PM

^^ Oh dear Lord ...
Goat: "Thanksgiving is a great time of year except that Shanahan kicked me in the nuts for a year."

CrazyCanuck 11-28-2013 04:35 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
[quote=Mattyk;1043405]I'm not a fan of baseball either, but he throws out several facts to support his claim. How is he wrong exactly?[/quote]

Just got around to this, that SF game set me back a few days. :)

He focuses on "repeat playoff appearances" and "playoff turnover." Doesn't say much.

So one year you have the Yanks, Rangers, Angels, Cards, Braves.... the next you have the Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Phillies, Tigers. All these teams are in top half of the league payrolls, how does this show parity?

Some other points:

[url=http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/wells-baseball/2013/feb/1/does-money-really-buy-world-series-titles/]Does money really buy World Series titles? | Washington Times Communities[/url]

"Seventeen of the last 18 World Series winners have had a payroll in the top 15. In the last 18 years, only one team has been able to win the World Series without being ranked in the top 15 for payroll. That team was the 1997 Florida Marlins. They ranked 25th out of 28 teams.

Now, letís see where the loser of the World Series ranked in payroll over the last 18 years. Fifteen of the losing teams were ranked in the top 15 in baseball. Only three teams ranked outside of the top 15 in player salary have managed to make it to the World Series and then lose."

Another point involves "player parity". In the NFL a star like Peyton or Favre can stay with the same team for their whole career, even in small markets like Indy and Green Bay. If Peyton played baseball, there is basically zero chance he would stay with a small market team his whole career. He would undoubtedly "graduate" to the Yanks or the Sox after a few years.

I know baseball is trying to improve its parity with revenue sharing etc. and I commend them for that. But to suggest the overall competitiveness of baseball and football are similar is quite a stretch IMO.

The Goat 11-29-2013 05:19 PM

Re: How the NFL works...
 
^^^ Excellent analysis, had to stop and remember you're the salary cap guru.

Still I didn't think anyone would seriously claim baseball or any American sport has near the parity pro football boasts. It's gdamn obvious from "ocular assessment" alone but then look at so many obvious things that fly over us.

This thread is a positive one among all the negative shit surrounding the redskins. With a good off-season, and coaching selections are the key there, we could see a serious football team in just a year or two.


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