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Daseal 03-25-2005 10:22 PM

Musgrave.
 
Well, through the internet I've been able to find a lot of educated fans from other teams. I like to get their opinions about the skins, give mine on their team, and find out general other stuff. Anyhow, talked to a Jags fan today and asked him about Musgrave, this is the response I got:

HE SUCKS.

He's too conservative, he runs the same three plays in a row, and he refuses to go down field with a young QB (leftwhich.)

If this analysis is correct he sounds just like Gibbs and the opposite of what we needed. What do you guys think?

wolfeskins 03-25-2005 10:42 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
he's not there to call plays, only to work with ramsey and from what i've read about him he has helped develop some very good qbs.

BigSKINBauer 03-25-2005 10:42 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]Well, through the internet I've been able to find a lot of educated fans from other teams. I like to get their opinions about the skins, give mine on their team, and find out general other stuff. Anyhow, talked to a Jags fan today and asked him about Musgrave, this is the response I got:

HE SUCKS.

He's too conservative, he runs the same three plays in a row, and he refuses to go down field with a young QB (leftwhich.)

If this analysis is correct he sounds just like Gibbs and the opposite of what we needed. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

Wow now we got Gibbs and his lesser apprentice but gibbs says he will try more down field stuff but who knows?

SKINSnCANES 03-25-2005 10:45 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
what we need to hope is that our oline doesnt get banged up next year. Because its goign to be the same type of crap as this year, its going to depend on the running game first. So as long as Portis is dominatnig with a good oline we will win, if not....well then we pray that in the huddle Ramsey says he is going to look long first...

Daseal 03-25-2005 10:46 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
heh, Running through all those people is the hard part!

htownskinfan 03-26-2005 01:51 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]what we need to hope is that our oline doesnt get banged up next year. Because its goign to be the same type of crap as this year, its going to depend on the running game first. So as long as Portis is dominatnig with a good oline we will win, if not....well then we pray that in the huddle Ramsey says he is going to look long first...[/QUOTE]

amen to that,it all starts upfront,if we have the protection and the recievers are hanging on to the ball,Gibb's knows when to take the shots,at least he used too,I dont think he tried it enough last yr,but I dont watch game films or see practice,and he's obviously privy to something we dont know,so I forgive him for last yr,but Ramsey has to have protection to be effective

John Hasbrouck 03-26-2005 02:37 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
Musgrave is not here to call plays or do game plans-only to coach up Ramsey. Musgrave is a top shelf QB coach. Ramsey needs coaching up- no matter what the majority of you think.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha 03-26-2005 04:26 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
[QUOTE=John Hasbrouck]Musgrave is not here to call plays or do game plans-only to coach up Ramsey. Musgrave is a top shelf QB coach. Ramsey needs coaching up- no matter what the majority of you think.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your first two statements, and [I]slightly[/I] disagree with your last statement about Ramsey needing "coaching up. "

First, Gibbs even admits he learned a lot last season - principally he needs to "open-up" the offense. So, even if Musgrave was conservative in Jacksonville, I don't think that means we'll retain our conservative approach on offense.

Second, Musgrave is supposedly a pretty damn good position coach. Being a bad offensive coordinator doesn't necessarily mean he won't be a good QB coach again.

As to your last point that Ramsey needs coaching up.....I agree that Ramsey needs additional coaching (as any young QB does). But, I think Ramsey needs experience more than coaching. It typically takes a QB a full two seasons of starting to develop. Thus far, Ramsey's started 23 games. Moreover, those 23 games were under two different head coaches, three different offensive coordinators, and over the course of three seasons. I think he needs a solid coaching staff (which he has) and a chance to start a number of consecutive games (which he hasn't had).

NY_Skinsfan 03-26-2005 08:09 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
Gibbs didn't open up the offense last year becuase everytime he saw Brunell throw long it went ten yards out of bounds...what was the point then. Once Ramsey came in it was too late in the season. The oline was a mess, the wr's were dropping all sorts of short passes. I think Gibbs system may not be a perfect fit for the nfl today, but it certainly will work a lot better with a better oline...I feel that's were it all starts. If we can get some protection for Portis and Ramsey we will have a very fun team to watch this year.

BrudLee 03-26-2005 10:04 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
On this site - which is the best Redskins site bar none - we have been known to have, shall we say, sour grapes, about those who have left the Redskins employ.

Pierce? a system guy.

Smoot? He'll regret leaving.

Bailey? *%#&%$!!!

It doesn't surprise me that Jag fans are blaming Musgrave for their woes. They were, before last season, a sweetheart pick for the Super Bowl. He wasn't so bad then.

GoSkins! 03-26-2005 10:11 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
Gibbs is a big "stats" guy. When he got out of the season and saw how badly he ranked in plays over 25 yards I am sure it ate him up. When he says he will improve that, he will. Period. It may not mean he gets into the top ten, but they will improve.
Musgrave was brought in because Ramsey is a gun slinger and Gibbs wanted to help round out his game. Musgrave can get the best out of QB's and understands the west coast offense blocking schemes. This will be good because he will help to employ Portis in the short passing.

In short, Musgrave can help the short passes go longer and Gibbs gets to develop a long passing game to exploit the defenses. Remember, Gibbs calls the plays, not Musgrave.

BigSKINBauer 03-26-2005 11:38 AM

Re: Musgrave.
 
[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I agree with your first two statements, and [i]slightly[/i] disagree with your last statement about Ramsey needing "coaching up. "

First, Gibbs even admits he learned a lot last season - principally he needs to "open-up" the offense. So, even if Musgrave was conservative in Jacksonville, I don't think that means we'll retain our conservative approach on offense.

Second, Musgrave is supposedly a pretty damn good position coach. Being a bad offensive coordinator doesn't necessarily mean he won't be a good QB coach again.

As to your last point that Ramsey needs coaching up.....I agree that Ramsey needs additional coaching (as any young QB does). But, I think Ramsey needs experience more than coaching. It typically takes a QB a full two seasons of starting to develop. Thus far, Ramsey's started 23 games. Moreover, those 23 games were under two different head coaches, three different offensive coordinators, and over the course of three seasons. I think he needs a solid coaching staff (which he has) and a chance to start a number of consecutive games (which he hasn't had).[/QUOTE]

yeah yeah, i think he needs a good position coach, he messes up quiet a bit and don't get me wrong i do not want any other quarterback in there. I would like him in there for years but he does need to learn more about the game, after seeing some of his tape on fox and then on playbook on NFL network it just seemed that he wasn't throwing it to the obvious choice and was just throwing it short to a covered man but i am sure that a little more experience will go a long way its just that he needs a good coach and good experience and not just experince

Mattyk 03-26-2005 12:34 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
Well, Musgrave wasn't brought in to be the offensive coordinator so there's not much sense in analyzing his playcalling abilities.

I think there's this misconception with some of the younger fans that Gibbs is this ultra-conservative minded offensive coach, which just isn't true. But going off last year I can see why this opinion is forming.

Gibbs is responsible for some of the more explosive offenses in NFL history. Last year was definitely an adjustment for him, but I believe we'll see a much improved offense in 2005 with an improved offensive line, a more experienced Ramsey under center, a group of speedy WRs, and Gibbs having last year under his belt.

As I indicated in another thread, the offense averaged over 300 yards per game and just over 20 points per game in the last 5 games of last season. I think we'll see a continuation of that late season development in 2005.

jrocx69 03-26-2005 12:48 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
musgrave was also brought in to help gibbs with zone blitzing defense which i believe made gibbs very cautious with plays and thus had a bigger effect on ramsey's play. musgrave was brought in to help with plays, but not to call them. i believe musgrave was brought in for 2 reasons, help ramsey develope fundamentals, and help both ramsey and gibbs with what modern day D-coordinators are doing with defense (zone blitzing, (3-4)... which gibbs rarely seen in his first stint

Mattyk 03-26-2005 12:57 PM

Re: Musgrave.
 
[QUOTE=jrocx69]musgrave was also brought in to help gibbs with zone blitzing defense which i believe made gibbs very cautious with plays and thus had a bigger effect on ramsey's play. musgrave was brought in to help with plays, but not to call them. i believe musgrave was brought in for 2 reasons, help ramsey develope fundamentals, and help both ramsey and gibbs with what modern day D-coordinators are doing with defense (zone blitzing, (3-4)... which gibbs rarely seen in his first stint[/QUOTE]

Good points, and since Musgrave's background is in the west coast offense I'm sure that will benefit Gibbs to see a different perspective in offensive schemes.


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